Revisiting Old Ideas - what's the best Rebels commander?

[3drinks]

Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero is the obvious choice with it's tutour built in and near immunity to nonbasic hate. She's the classic choice and the most on-brand for obvious reasons. Being stuck in arguably the worst single colour is a definitive drawback, however.

Zirda, the Dawnwaker trades a guaranteed tutour in the 'zone for an extra colour plus reduced activation costs. It doesn't have any tribe synergies itself and your commander becomes a bit of a target, and without it you're mostly playing "bad rebels" though. Getting a second colour is certainly appreciated.

Trynn, Champion of Freedom & Silvar, Devourer of the Free has little synergy other than rebels being humans, but the advantage of two extra colours and an extra commander, obviously, can't be understated. You can begin to lose focus here and you start to wander from rebels to just more powerful humans, but...you get to play mercenaries too. Not that there's any real playables there, however. Big Game Hunter is probably the best rebel you get access to when adding colours.

Is Lin Sivvi really still the optimum choice for this niche tribe?

[Dunharrow]

How do you want to win?
if the answer is get a bunch of rebels then get mirror entity and win, then Lin Sivvi i the best.

[brainface]

I use Karador, Ghost Chieftain to add skyshroud poacher and elves to the mix, with karador acting as recovery after the inevitable wrath.

Regardless, I recommend anything with +b, for big game hunter and Rebel Informer, which is a dumb jank loop with another rebel to pull bgh out again.

[3drinks]

I use Karador, Ghost Chieftain to add skyshroud poacher and elves to the mix, with karador acting as recovery after the inevitable wrath.

Regardless, I recommend anything with +b, for big game hunter and Rebel Informer, which is a dumb jank loop with another rebel to pull bgh out again.

I see I'm not the only one that's seen rebels out of the anticipated shell. Sounds like your Karador is doing the same as my partners is doing. For better and for worse - less need to play bad rebels to get the numbers up, but in exchange for losing a degree of centralization. Getting cairn wanderer and other changelings is great, and of course there's always patriarch's bidding.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Your listed options are neat, but the coolest rebel build I ever saw was a Kambal, Consul of Allocation deck with patriarch's bidding and such.

[DirkGently]

No one has mentioned the actual sweetest rebel commander: Zur the Enchanter to fetch Arcane Adaptation. So many shenanigans...

The old mono-white lin sivvi route is definitely a tough one to pull off these days. The problem is, besides their extremely sweet tutor ability, rebels don't really do anything significant enough for commander. There's a few very mediocre control effects like Whipcorder and Lightbringer, but offensively you're relying almost entirely on Mirror Entity, which doesn't give trample, costs a lot of mana to use effectively, etc. And outside of sivvi, the tutor effect is kinda expensive for what you're getting, especially if you're paying to tuck them after you get board wiped. At least mirror entity gives you a "sac outlet" in case something important is going to get exiled...kind of a high price, though...

I played Sivvi a decade ago and felt like I was just getting crushed by the value of a mediocre Mayael the Anima deck. And rebels has gotten very few new cards since then.

I can't really see something like Zirda solving those problems. Zur gives you the ability to actually use the tutor ability to major effect, plus he can fetch Training Grounds, effectively making himself Zirda + conspiracy + ???, and in better colors for rebels since you can play the black rebels (even without arcane adaptation, you can pull shenanigans like Amoeboid Changeling + Rebel Informer) and have access to black tutors in case you can't find a rebel to get yourself started.

[3drinks]

No one has mentioned the actual sweetest rebel commander: Zur the Enchanter to fetch Arcane Adaptation. So many shenanigans...

The old mono-white lin sivvi route is definitely a tough one to pull off these days. The problem is, besides their extremely sweet tutor ability, rebels don't really do anything significant enough for commander. There's a few very mediocre control effects like Whipcorder and Lightbringer, but offensively you're relying almost entirely on Mirror Entity, which doesn't give trample, costs a lot of mana to use effectively, etc. And outside of sivvi, the tutor effect is kinda expensive for what you're getting, especially if you're paying to tuck them after you get board wiped. At least mirror entity gives you a "sac outlet" in case something important is going to get exiled...kind of a high price, though...

I played Sivvi a decade ago and felt like I was just getting crushed by the value of a mediocre Mayael the Anima deck. And rebels has gotten very few new cards since then.

I can't really see something like Zirda solving those problems. Zur gives you the ability to actually use the tutor ability to major effect, plus he can fetch Training Grounds, effectively making himself Zirda + conspiracy + ???, and in better colors for rebels since you can play the black rebels (even without arcane adaptation, you can pull shenanigans like Amoeboid Changeling + Rebel Informer) and have access to black tutors in case you can't find a rebel to get yourself started.

This is where I'm at and I think why I've not started it yet, despite buying the whole rebel package for all of $21usd. If any tribe could use a refresh with all the power creep around, it's this one because right now it looks useful enough to appear to be a low power deck you hope people look over....except not really because you still have a walking tutour deck. There's definitely tons of design space though, to explore another round into the tribe though. As is, it would seem Trynn/Silvar is my closest shot to doing something with the tribe but even that is just kinda existing for two extra colours to "get enough playables".

I guess this is just that one archetype that sits on the shelf and gets kicked around in my head and waits for an opportunity that never comes.

Your listed options are neat, but the coolest rebel build I ever saw was a Kambal, Consul of Allocation deck with patriarch's bidding and such.

I'll bite. What does Kambul provide specifically that synergizes with rebels? I'm all for interesting deck designs, I just don't see any synergy here. I could slot Shadrix Silverquill or Breena, the Demagogue and play largely the same deck, yes?

[Hawk]

I can't imagine not doing Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero - Rebels are so underpowered these days that not having the ability to quickly find Mirror Entity or the Task Force + Outrider en-Kor + Worthy Cause/Animal Boneyard/Diamond Valley combo.

If you do want to go for something else, I agree a color combination that opens up Conspiracy, Xenograft, and Arcane Adaptation alongside Entity feels valuable. Zur is a slick recommendation.

[brainface]

Tbh I really don't like what mirror entity does to my rebelish deck--it just always reaches a point where I go "well I guess it's mirror entity time and hope they can't stop it." I think that's really less the strength of mirror entity and more that the rebel bombs of Jhovall Queen and Cho-Arrim Bruiser just... just aren't bombs there, so working up the rebel tech tree just doesn't yield a reward. Changelings don't really fix this either, the bombs are entity or Chameleon Colossus, nothing that needs the rebels that search for cmc 6. Searching for 5 gets cairn wanderer and a few other big dudes, I guess.

TLDR I just want a big wurm with rebellious tendencies I guess.

[onering]

Build Mercenaries instead and win on principle.

[ISBPathfinder]

Circling back a little to the ones you mentioned 3Drinks, I played a lot of Lin Sivvi and in a lot of cases I was just trying to increase the number of bodies I had in play in order to make a move for Mirror Entity. Zirda, the Dawnwaker is interesting from the standpoint that there are a number of token producers such as Heliod, God of the Sun, Oketra the True, and Mobilization that changing commanders to Zirda makes incredibly more efficient. I haven't played rebels in a while but given a few insights from when I did play Lin Sivvi, moving your commander off of Lin Sivvi you probably drop some of the utility package of the rebels for more of the tutoring ones. Zirda also has the upside of giving access to haste which a lot of these rebels might feel a little more clunky when cast but if you have mana and Zirda getting access to cheap and easy haste could still be relevant. I think of this primarily from the standpoint of something like Anger that would give mass haste rather than targeted haste as you could chain one rebel into the next very cheaply.

Another concept that nobody has brought up yet would be Gaddock Teeg rebels. I looked into in a few times but especially when your commander isn't a rebel some of the challenge can be sweepers. In some ways Teeg would combat sweepers in a similar way as Karador might. The green pickup gives the option of splashing some elf concepts which can lead to some big mana stuffs. Teeg also works really well with some cheap dorks like Mother of Runes to protect from spot removal. I guess a downside of Teeg is that Toxic Deluge and Cyclonic Rift aren't exactly fringe sweepers. It is cool from the standpoint that you make it hard to sweep while going super wide though. You can also get away with playing equipment with teeg which is kinda fun as most slip under his requirements and plays to the white equipment tutor thing.

Tbh I really don't like what mirror entity does to my rebelish deck--it just always reaches a point where I go "well I guess it's mirror entity time and hope they can't stop it." I think that's really less the strength of mirror entity and more that the rebel bombs of Jhovall Queen and Cho-Arrim Bruiser just... just aren't bombs there, so working up the rebel tech tree just doesn't yield a reward. Changelings don't really fix this either, the bombs are entity or Chameleon Colossus, nothing that needs the rebels that search for cmc 6. Searching for 5 gets cairn wanderer and a few other big dudes, I guess.

TLDR I just want a big wurm with rebellious tendencies I guess.

I have been asking for some bigger cost changelings for years on the back of hopes for rebels lol. They keep making these low cost draft chaff though and refuse to give me a colorless 6+ mana white one that isn't terrible. I literally can't get hyped for Valiant Changeling. At this point I would be fairly happy with something kind of vanilla that is still stat relivant. I would probably be fairly happy with a 6/6 for 6 with vigilance or a 5/5 for 5 flyer. Hell if they gave me Serra Angel as a changeling it might even be ok lol.

Jhovall and Cho feel like they are just a smidge off of playable. If Jhovall had like one more power it might get there for me. I just need a small bump from the power level of 20 year old vanilla creatures lol.

[darrenhabib]

I did the Zur the Enchanter/Arcane Adaptation deck back in the day and thread is still on mtgsalvation. It hasn't been altered since 2019 but it'll give you an idea of what it's about.

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the ... ox-control

[FenrirRex]

I'm personally fond of Mardu since it gives you access to the "complete" package + mercs, who I have also found to be slightly better in the format (with a handful more big beaters and removal options). With that in mind, I also prefer either a reanimation option in the zone (Alesha, Who Smiles at Death or the newer Extus, Oriq Overlord // Awaken the Blood Avatar seem fun) or, perhaps more interestingly, one of the options that let you run Zirda, the Dawnwaker as companion: Licia, Sanguine Tribune. No hard tribal synergies, but getting all your colors, a very relevant companion, and the option of life linking commander beatdown seems good. Kelsien, the Plague and Ghen, Arcanum Weaver also give you the companion option, but also risk walking you even further away from the core concept.

[Ardeyn]

What about going into all five colors with Kenrith, the Returned King, which would also open up Zirda, the Dawnwaker as a companion?
And the king is just strong in his own right, thus alleviating the overall weakness of Rebel / Mercenary as a creature type.

Ardeyn

[3drinks]

Circling back a little to the ones you mentioned 3Drinks, I played a lot of Lin Sivvi and in a lot of cases I was just trying to increase the number of bodies I had in play in order to make a move for Mirror Entity. Zirda, the Dawnwaker is interesting from the standpoint that there are a number of token producers such as Heliod, God of the Sun, Oketra the True, and Mobilization that changing commanders to Zirda makes incredibly more efficient. I haven't played rebels in a while but given a few insights from when I did play Lin Sivvi, moving your commander off of Lin Sivvi you probably drop some of the utility package of the rebels for more of the tutoring ones. Zirda also has the upside of giving access to haste which a lot of these rebels might feel a little more clunky when cast but if you have mana and Zirda getting access to cheap and easy haste could still be relevant. I think of this primarily from the standpoint of something like Anger that would give mass haste rather than targeted haste as you could chain one rebel into the next very cheaply.

Another concept that nobody has brought up yet would be Gaddock Teeg rebels. I looked into in a few times but especially when your commander isn't a rebel some of the challenge can be sweepers. In some ways Teeg would combat sweepers in a similar way as Karador might. The green pickup gives the option of splashing some elf concepts which can lead to some big mana stuffs. Teeg also works really well with some cheap dorks like Mother of Runes to protect from spot removal. I guess a downside of Teeg is that Toxic Deluge and Cyclonic Rift aren't exactly fringe sweepers. It is cool from the standpoint that you make it hard to sweep while going super wide though. You can also get away with playing equipment with teeg which is kinda fun as most slip under his requirements and plays to the white equipment tutor thing.

I have been asking for some bigger cost changelings for years on the back of hopes for rebels lol. They keep making these low cost draft chaff though and refuse to give me a colorless 6+ mana white one that isn't terrible. I literally can't get hyped for Valiant Changeling. At this point I would be fairly happy with something kind of vanilla that is still stat relivant. I would probably be fairly happy with a 6/6 for 6 with vigilance or a 5/5 for 5 flyer. Hell if they gave me Serra Angel as a changeling it might even be ok lol.

Jhovall and Cho feel like they are just a smidge off of playable. If Jhovall had like one more power it might get there for me. I just need a small bump from the power level of 20 year old vanilla creatures lol.

If Scion of Ugin had changeling, that might be the perfect topper for you? Well maybe, it'd still be comparable to Jhovall Queen I guess. But Scion of Draco though...or something old like Tek or Degavolver.

Teeg Rebels is a classic deck, and certainly right up my alley. But without the rebel theme, what's to stop you from wandering off and into a stronger tribe as a whole? While he gives Rebels what they want, there's no incentive to play Rebels with him; at least Trynn/Silvar keep you on the human plan to remain somewhat on type.

Losing Lin Sivvi from the 'Zone really is a big deal.

I'm personally fond of Mardu since it gives you access to the "complete" package + mercs, who I have also found to be slightly better in the format (with a handful more big beaters and removal options). With that in mind, I also prefer either a reanimation option in the zone (Alesha, Who Smiles at Death or the newer Extus, Oriq Overlord // Awaken the Blood Avatar seem fun) or, perhaps more interestingly, one of the options that let you run Zirda, the Dawnwaker as companion: Licia, Sanguine Tribune. No hard tribal synergies, but getting all your colors, a very relevant companion, and the option of life linking commander beatdown seems good. Kelsien, the Plague and Ghen, Arcanum Weaver also give you the companion option, but also risk walking you even further away from the core concept.

Alesha would work, though I've done her to death so much that I need another Alesha deck like I need a hole in my head. She has....very definite lines of play that you're drawn into, even myself where I just want to recur Palace Sentinels every turn. Or something with Slivers + Contamination. I've got no experience on the Extus thing, haven't seen how it plays or really researched it at all so that could be something. Licia is super interesting aside from the flavour fail of this vampire leading her rebels (or flavour win pending how you view vampirism). You've even got the Task Force loop to always play her for three mana value...but again like Teeg, you don't have anything that really incentivizes you to stick in Rebels; I could easily see myself wandering away and into life matters strats.

Kelsien would seem to appear as this hired mercenary leading a group of rebels to victory which is a flavour win in my book, though as you said, there's still not a lot of incentive to stay in Rebels. Seems as though I'd be looking for ways to grant deathtouch and untaps (helloooo, Death Pits of Rath). Add a Valor so you can't block my rebels and...oh look, it's like I just Mirrorweave'd my team into Ankle Shankers. Hmm, that's at least interesting in theory, but maybe not in actual play as I predict it grows a bit linear.

I'm gonna need to stay the hell away from Ghen because I'm not going to be a nice player with such an easy prison deck at my fingertips. I do not trust myself with that.

[onering]

What about going into all five colors with Kenrith, the Returned King, which would also open up Zirda, the Dawnwaker as a companion?
And the king is just strong in his own right, thus alleviating the overall weakness of Rebel / Mercenary as a creature type.

Ardeyn

I've used Kenrith for Mercs, having that backup is legit.

[FenrirRex]

I've got no experience on the Extus thing, haven't seen how it plays or really researched it at all so that could be something. Licia is super interesting aside from the flavour fail of this vampire leading her rebels (or flavour win pending how you view vampirism). You've even got the Task Force loop to always play her for three mana value...but again like Teeg, you don't have anything that really incentivizes you to stick in Rebels; I could easily see myself wandering away and into life matters strats.

Kelsien would seem to appear as this hired mercenary leading a group of rebels to victory which is a flavour win in my book, though as you said, there's still not a lot of incentive to stay in Rebels. Seems as though I'd be looking for ways to grant deathtouch and untaps (helloooo, Death Pits of Rath). Add a Valor so you can't block my rebels and...oh look, it's like I just Mirrorweave'd my team into Ankle Shankers. Hmm, that's at least interesting in theory, but maybe not in actual play as I predict it grows a bit linear.

To be fair, Rebels as a whole threaten a linear route, but yeah- adding on more deathtouch tribal shenanigans just rolls you in another linear direction. Still, the tribe does have a couple of pingers and other synergies with it, so Kelsian being a "flavor" win on top definitely adds a little more weight to it. The long term bonus of him eventually becoming a big enough damage dealer on his own to close out games is also a thing.

I think my vote still goes to Licia just because it gives some weight to the few life gain effects in the tribe(s) (making some of the tutor picks less linear/"perfect" every time) and I like the flavor of the "good guy" vampire- done to death, of course, but the vampire redemption arc is so oft repeated for a reason.

Either way, the safer activated abilities + the companion seem like the most interesting way to go.