How do you approach deck building?

[Hermes_]

You're building a new deck, how do you do it? Do you go right to edhrec and build that way? Or do you flip thru your collection and go this works with the commander/it's in the same colors.

Or do you go "This should play with the over all theme of the deck"


or do you build your decks by randomly garbing cards in the colors of your commander?

EDIT: Also how do you pick your next commander?

[Mookie]

I haven't built any new decks recently, but I am starting to get the urge to do so. My current plan is:

• Look through my collection for a commander that seems interesting
• Brainstorm potential themes / strategies and double-check to make sure it doesn't overlap too much with my existing decks
• Go through the rest of my collection and pull out anything in its colors that seem on-theme
• Sleeve things up and take it to my playgroup for a test run
• If I enjoy the deck, then do some Scryfall searches and order singles

EDHREC may come in eventually, but it's mostly in the 'checking my work' stage to make sure I haven't missed anything obvious (usually cards with weird wording that I miss in the Scryfall searching).

That said, I'm usually blocked in one of the first two steps - a lot of commanders feel like they will be boring because effectively build themselves... or they're in my collection because I cut them from an existing deck and they overlap too much with it. My cube has provided an entirely distinct card pool from the usual EDH staples, at least, so I'll probably browse its chopping block for inspiration.

edit: I was bored, so I looked through my collection and found Ziatora, the Incinerator... who reminded me that I sort of wanted to build Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire. I don't currently own a copy of the latter, but will probably pick one up now (or proxy with the former). Spent the next half an hour pulling stuff out of my collection for a Primal Surge deck (since I recently cut Primal Surge from Animar, Soul of Elements) with a focus on sacrificing random value creatures to cheat stuff out. Next step is to cut the extra stuff and sleeve things up!

double edit: finished cutting and sleeving. Huzzah! Looking forwards to testing the new deck next week. It includes a bunch of random cards I've wanted to try out (or tried and been underwhelmed by), so should be interesting.

[BaronCappuccino]

1) Browse commander options till I find one that calls to me and doesn't want any cards I can't afford (for example, all my green decks tend to be voltronish to not want Gaea's Cradle).
2) Come up with the card abilities that I'm going to need in the 99 to directly produce the strategy.
3) Use Gatherer to find all the cards that qualify under #2.
4) Put together my mana base and ramp.
5) Fill in the remainder with removal/draw/tutors - the nuts and bolts that a deck needs to function.

If I'm going to use EDHRec, it's either before #2 to figure out what I'm looking for, or after, to, as said above, make sure I didn't miss any oddly worded fits.

[pokken]

This is approximate and sometimes I mix it up a little but this is my basic process.

So I usually have a handful of cards I'm really interested in plus a commander (or two). Then I make a list of all the cards I might want to play, buy the ones I don't have, and then make a pile of usually around 150-200 cards I want to play. [ this is generally how I organically grow my collection, by overbuying for an archetype and updating existing archetype cards with new stuff ]

I usually find these cards by doing first an edhrec search on cards connected to the cards I like, and then gatherer searches for specific things I want (e.g. "+1/+1 counter enters" or something if I want to find cards that put counters when things enter, or whatever).

Then I make piles.

1. Wincons - winning the game (this usually includes Theme related stuff as well, synergies, etc., if it doesn't fit in another pile)
2. Answers - making the game go long enough, usually divided between targeted and broad
3. Velocity/card advantage - finding the stuff I want to do, usually tutors and card draw effects go here
4. Acceleration - ramp, cheat effects, etc.

Usually I'll arrange the piles together and if cards go in multiple piles I'll put them in each pile as I analyze that suite of cards (e.g. if I'm looking at answers I'll pull the stuff from velocity that is also an answer, like modal spells).

Each pile except wincons gets arranged by curve, and usually I'll also do a final curveout of all piles 2/3/4 - wincons don't need to curve so much (although I do think about cutting from the topend sometimes).

And throughout this process I'll cut cards that're suspect, and if I have too many cards at the end I"ll do more rounds of cuts, etc.

Usually I keep all the rejects in a box for a while while I playtest the deck and when it's finalized I put the stuff away. This is the worst part of deck building


--

if you want an example you can see my Thrasios/Tormod deck + the sideboad is cards I had in the deck at one point or considered - https://deckbox.org/sets/3392929

This deck started as:
* I want to make zombies with Field of the Dead and then use them to make mana with Earthcraft. I like Thrasios, Triton Hero for that since he can turn mana into more zombies, and Tormod, the Desecrator gives me another angle on making zombies.
* Now that I know my commanders and roughly what I want to do (play lands, make zombies, use zombies for mana) I need to know how to close the game. Wonder, Bastion of Remembrance and The Meathook Massacre get that done. Ashnod's Altar , Phyrexian Altar kinda act like more copies of Earthcraft although worse.
* Add scaffolding as a lot of nice resilient stuff that lets me play lots of lands (Exploration) and some bombs that win like Reshape the Earth or Scapeshift

[Dunadain]

I I'll let you know when I figure it out.

[Boros_Blendo]

I only play Commanders I personally like, and those tend to be rather simple in design. I personally despise Commanders that take a Master's degree to utilize.
My current Commanders are: Sliver Queen tokens, Horde of Notions elementals, Hazezon Tamar Dune theme, Mayael the Anima under construction, Prime Speaker Zegana Simic proliferate/graft, Frodo, Adventurous Hobbit/Sam, Loyal Attendant Tourists Suck! (modified precon), Tom Bombadil kitchen-sink LotR, and Aragorn, King of Gondor (modified Rohan/Gondor) precon. All are simple, pretty-straightforward.

- I do searches on the colors on Gatherer after considering what a Commander like that would do, looking for synergies.
- I dredge my collection since most of my cards now have been in a deck at some point, so basic staples usually are on hand. The LotR stuff is a different thing since I bought a crud ton of the set, so I stuck to the challenge of staying block for all three LotR decks. Maybe not as good, but they are fun in my group!
- I put all the cards into a spreadsheet with lots of symbols for deck functions like card draw, tokens, destruction, life gain, mana, each column being the next cmc, that way I have a running list with curve already in hand. If I have too many cards, I then winnow it down from there to 100.
- I tend to run with a basic formula...so much destruction, draw, lifegain, mana ramp, critters, etc, then adjust from there based on the overall theme/mechanics desired.
- Once I put together a deck in real life, I goldfish the snot out of it to see if it has decent enough cohesion and flow. A secondary upside to that is sleeves that are brand new are slick as anything, and goldfishing tends to break them in so they don't all fly out like frisbies in every direction when I look at them harshly.
- I then run against my friends, and adjust from there based on the meta. I never cease to be amazed by how wrong many of my assumptions are under the stress of combat.

Now, I don't personally recommend anyone take what I do as advice, as I tend to suck at 100 card singleton format, but that's how I do it.

[Mookie]

For anyone curious, here's what I threw together in two hours from my collection. I could spend several more hours analyzing the list and brainstorming new cards... or I could just play two games and see how things go. I know which I prefer - number crunching is good for analyzing known problems, but I think actually playing games is the fastest way to identify them in the first place.

My next planned steps are to play a few games with it and adjust the list based on whatever egregious issues it has (i.e. a lack of ramp / interaction). Then, and only then, will I start pulling together a buylist for cards I don't have (or lack spare copies). I also had a few silly ideas come to me while putting the list together (cascade → Glimpse of Tomorrow and possibly Warp World), which will require some more specific cards to support (and definitely wouldn't have been in my initial list).

[Toshi]

I think some would find my Commander roster and deck building restrictions quite akward.

Over time i decided to have one each mono and each two color pairing, as well as one budget (<150 €) deck each with 1 to 5 colors.
So i don't build "new" decks anymore but rather replace one with another - mostly when i don't feel like playing the old one anymore.
With that in mind, color identity comes first.

Most recently i was looking for a replacement for Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer in the 3C budget slot. To sift through my options i just looked at all the 3C pairings on EDHrec - no in depth research, just the face card(s). Going back and forth, i decided Nashi, Moon's Legacy legendary tribal would be fun and open up an unusual card pool, which is always a big plus.

After picking a commander i like building the mana base first. Sometimes there's a theme like basic lands and their respective "fetches" only in Aragorn, the Uniter and Cecily, Haunted Mage//Othelm, Sigardian Outcast, cycling lands in The Council of Four or a budget forest typing focus in Nashi, Moon's Legacy, to make the most of Farseek, Nature's Lore and Three Visits. I prefer my land bases to be as sturdy as possible, so i only sprinkle in few fitting utility lands such as Swarmyard//Nashi, Moon's Legacy, Edgewall Inn//Adventure tribal, ...

The next step is an in depth scryfall search, which i propably enjoy most about deck-building overall! I literally went through all legendary cards for Nashi, Moon's Legacy, all multicolored spells for Aragorn, the Uniter, all adventures for Cecily, Haunted Mage & Othelm, Sigardian Outcast and even all instants and sorceries for Talrand, Sky Summoner and Zada, Hedron Grinder several times...
It's just great fun stumbling into fun, niche cards. Library of Leng + Gallia of the Endless Dance, Confession Dial + Nashi, Moon's Legacy, Mana Cannons + Aragorn, the Uniter, Passionate Archaeologist, Kess, Dissident Mage, Vega, the Watcher + Adventures, ...

I will only take a brief look at EDHrec, as not to miss obvious cards.
Sometimes that's a waste of time, since most people build certain commanders differently. Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist cats instead of big beatsticks, Aragorn, the Uniter LotR or human tribal instead of multicolors, Cecily, Haunted Mage & Othelm, Sigardian Outcast Stranger Things, Nashi, Moon's Legacy rats instead of legendaries, ... Sometimes there's nothing fitting my build, sometimes there's way too much.

Of course i will then have to make space for the usual set of interaction, ramp and the likes, but if possible i choose those to be thematically fitting over so called staples.
At this point i am usually sitting at 110-120 cards. I will proceed cutting all cards from said list which i can find in my binders.
Choosing what i will order of the remaining cards is a mix and match of card prices, necessity and flavor. I tend to order expensive singles later and splash the cash on a working shell first.

Playing commander for the past +10 years and using a mixture of scryfall, archidekt and cardmarket, i am at a point where initial builds work pretty well and rarely cost me more than 100€.
Once a sets' spoilers are done, i will make an order of new cards for my decks and combine those with wants i had anyhow.

[DirkGently]

I'm so glad you asked

1) Picking a commander

In years past, I went through every possible commander in the format and gave them all grades based on how interested I was in building them. This was back when the number was <1000, so it wasn't quite as insane as it would be now. I considered each of them, how one might build them, and then gave them a grade in a big spreadsheet that took me ages to make. For a while, that was my main source of inspiration - look at the top picks until one spoke to me.

These days, it's pretty rare that a I brew an older commander - typically I get interested in a new commander during spoiler season, and then use my GBU article as an opportunity to gather my thoughts on each of them. This is similar to my old list, except that I'm a lot more thorough since a) there aren't nearly as many options to consider and b) publishing it out to the world means I'll feel like a moron if I miss a compelling element of the card.

But sometimes I will get a hankering to build something older, or by happenstance some older commander will get my renewed attention - I notice it while combing through my collection, or see it in a trade binder, or see a decklist online.

One thing that increasingly effects my interest in a commander these days is how popular it is on EDHrec. A commander that I thought looked cool get tons of decklists can dramatically lower my interest in it, and a commander getting underused can be absolute catnip for my flighty inspiration. Good example recently was Gilraen, Dúnedain Protector. Wouldn't have given her a second thought if she had a few hundred decklists even, but seeing her almost completely ignored (still only 45 decks!) made me think "now hang on, she's not that bad, you could do X and Y and..." and suddenly my gears are turning.

2) Picking a strategy

This typically goes hand-in-hand with choosing a commander. Rarely do I pick a commander but not know where I plan to go with it. Nevertheless, it's still an important step in the process. Much like my contrarian commander selection, I really like finding unique ways to use a commander. For example, on another thread, Rukarumel, Biologist came up, and based on decklists a significant majority of people are basically building her as sliver tribal, which I think is a poor utilization of card and not very interesting besides. Seeing that Rebel "tribal" lists are a significant minority for Ruka is definitely something that makes me more interested.

As far as how I decide on the strategy, it's difficult to communicate since a lot of it is just experience, but beyond obvious synergies I think I'm fairly good at weighing many different possible game plans and synergies against a given commander. For examples of that, I suppose just look through my GBU articles where I try to consider many different gameplans for each commander, beyond those that might be immediately apparent. Or of course, the crown jewel, my Phelddagrif list, which (at least at the time) was completely different from how anyone else I'm aware of brewed the purple hippo.

3) Gathering cards

I've mentioned many times on here that, besides a few "permanent decks" which are normal, self-contained decks, I keep a collection of every "commander-viable" card (in my estimation), all sleeved and sorted (by color and land/nonland - I don't see much point to sorting beyond that). Currently that collection numbers 11,830 and is worth $62,086.36, according to the app that I use to track it (the "Decked" app, if anyone is curious).

Once I've picked out a commander and have a rough idea of how I plan to use it, I start going through the nonland cards within its color identity, typically starting with multicolor and working my way to colorless. Along the way I'll find cards I had intended to use, cards of types I expected to use, and sometimes cards that hadn't occurred to me but make a lot of sense once I'm looking at them.

I can filter through physical cards pretty quickly. I've tried to do the same thing with scryfall and other online resources and it's never been nearly as quick. Physical cards also make the following stages significantly easier for me.

4) Sorting

With a better understanding of what the deck will be doing, now that I've seen all the cards that fit into my planned strategy plus anything else I might not have considered, I start to sort the cards into the different functions I consider to contribute to this strategy. For example, working on a The Rani deck, in contrast to how it's typically built, I'm eschewing other forms of goad and instead relying on my commander to provide a sufficient amount of goad. So the piles for that deck include things like board control tools to force opponents down to a smaller number of creatures (or at least a small number of attackers) to ensure that I have enough goad to cover the important enemy creatures, artifact synergies that trigger off number of artifacts to exploit the clue tokens she creates, artifact token production to further increase the value of those synergy pieces, ordinary targeted removal, counterspells, and card advantage.

5) Culling

Each step of this process further helps me understand what the deck is going to do, so now that I've sorted out all the piles I'm starting to form an idea of how important each function will be. Is this something I only need occasionally? Or is it something that I absolutely need to have in the first couple turns?

So now I go through each pile and start to remove the weaker options. Stuff that seemed okay at first is often now clearly outmatched by other cards, and can be culled.

Not every time, but especially if I'm taking the deck pretty seriously, at some point in this step I'll create a blueprint for the deck that will have a number of cards attached to each function. Once I have those numbers adding to 99, in principle I can cut down to the top X cards for each category and bam, list complete. Of course in practice this is a bit messier because some cards will be part of multiple categories, and some cards are reliant on other synergy pieces. So it's an iterative process of cutting, reconsidering, perhaps un-cutting some cards, adjusting the numbers on my blueprint, and then cutting some more.

6) Lands

Lands are almost always the last thing I add to a deck, once I know the balance of colors and have decided how land-heavy or land-light I want the deck to be. This process isn't always so different between decks - the best lands are usually still the best lands, though sometimes certain features of the deck will have an impact, i.e. multi-pipped cards increase the value of filter lands, slower decks can more readily accept ETBT lands, mono-color decks can accept more colorless utility lands, etc. And sometimes utility lands can be an important part of the deck as well.

7) Posting

Once the list is complete, I make a new thread and stick the decklist on there, alongside some thoughts I have about it. A new handmade Dirk original is complete, and the cycle begins again.

8) Actually playing the deck

Optional

[krakked]

Usually how I do deckbuilding is first figuring out all of the cards that I'll use to build around it
The second part is ramp. I typically play black so I run mana rocks, Terrain Generator , or Black Market . And stuff like that.
Third part is the fun part. I always sprinkle in a bit of stacks effects, stuff that ruin certain strategies, and stuff that will generally be funny but people will not like. Stuff like Sadistic Sacrament is more general use but it certainly gets the job done and is great in shutting a deck down if it's kicked early. If you want certain stacks effects stuff like Cursed Totem is great.
Lands, as always, are on the back burner. If I'm playing multicolored then throw in some duel lands, but I don't have much to say on the matter.
A more complex part of it is combos. Ussually I have 2 card combos but recently I've been thinking of adding infinite ones just so I can end the game if a player runs away with it.
The most difficult part is cutting back and making the deck better over time. The biggest things are usually "Hmm, should I add more or less value? More synergy, or mana rocks?" Some are easier to do than others.
A huge part of it is vigorous and repetitive playtesting. I've been constantly been playtesting and slowly working on the first commander deck I've made for many months now, since I want it to be somewhat up to part with other decks I've played against. Sometimes I playtest a single deck for weeks, maybe months. It's the biggest part of deckbuilding but is essential.
I try to make deckbuilding fun enough with mean and weird cards for me to enjoy it, though. But not to get too silly with it.

[onering]

First thing I do is figure out what I want to do with the deck. Why am I building this deck? What experience do I want, how do I want it to play, how is it supposed to win, what is the overall strategy? Maybe I'm building it because I want to use a specific commander, maybe I'm building it because I want to play with a specific mechanic, maybe I'm building it because I want to pursue a specific strategy, maybe I'm trying to explore a concept. The answer determines what I'm going to be looking for.

The next step is to determine what I need in the deck to enable whatever my deck building goal is. This isn't specific cards at this step, but rather general classes if cards or effects. For instance, if I'm building around a mechanic, I'll determine that I need cards with that mechanic (obviously), but also what sorts of effects play well with that mechanic and what other support cards are needed to ensure the mechanic will feature centrally in the deck. Is it a well supported mechanic, or is it a mechanic that isn't particularly well supported? If it's the latter, I'll need some ways to ensure I can actually play enough of those cards to have the mechanic matter to the deck, perhaps a lot of cars draw, maybe a reliance on tutors, maybe plenty of recursion, etc.

The next step is to look for all the cards in the colors that support whatever my deck building goal might be. This is the general step of finding the best cards that directly play into the main goal or theme of the deck, plus the needed support cards identified in the previous step.

Next is going to the staples pile for the colors and adding everything from that into the deck. This is generally to up the power level and increase consistency, which is important to making the deck enjoyable and reliable.

Next is pondering cuts. I determine, from what is assembled, what the target power level for the deck should be, and cut from there. Maybe what I'm looking at is telling me the deck is going to have to be lower powered in order for the goal or theme to have enough cards to be relevant, at which point I'll cut more staples and specifically look to Olay at lower power tables with the deck. Maybe the deck looks like the themes or goal will consistently shine through at a higher power level, and I can afford to cut more from the theme and keep more staples in to end up with a stronger deck that still plays as intended. Maybe certain staples will look weaker than usual in this deck, or more disposable, making them easier to cut, and maybe certain on them cards will turn out to not be good fits overall.

Finally, the first draft comes together and I goldfish some to see how consistent the deck plays, how much it looks like it could keep pace in a game of the intended power level, and how much the theme or goal consistently plays a part in the games. Final adjustments go from there

As an example, one of my main decks for the past couple of years has been mono white control. I started by wanting to test the concept, having seen how cards from the past few years were shoring up white's weaknesses and wanting to see if the increased access to card draw would let whites incredible suite of answers shine. I determined that I'd want to focus on card draw and hate bears as a baseline, with non creature control spells as support, because I could focus on building a board state and winning through combat while advancing my control game plan using hate bears. Then I added the best cards in those three roles I could identify, then I added the staples, and noticed straight away that there was actually a ton of overlap already as whites staples generally fit the theme and plan I was going for. I tested a number of commanders before settling on Mangara for his consistent card draw and several small but significant interactions with the deck (2 power being relevant to mentor of the meek and other cards, humans and clerics making up a significant percentage of the creatures and thus benefitting from cards like path of ancestry, etc.). Then adding more board wipes, maximizing recursion, adding Approach of the Second Sun when I realized how fast the deck was actually able to draw cards (casting it again the next turn after casting it the first time is surprisingly likely), reducing the reliance on life gain interactions, cutting a few draw spells that didn't pull their weight (especially with Mangara doing a great job in the CZ), and I ended up with a deck I can bring to higher power casual games (8s) and spend the whole game being relevant, doing what it's supposed to do, sitting with a consistently full grip while controlling the game and getting in for damage, and maintaining a solid win rate.

[pokken]

I tested a number of commanders before settling on Mangara

as an aside do you have this deck online anywhere? I spent some time brewing Mangara and would be interested!

[onering]

I tested a number of commanders before settling on Mangara

as an aside do you have this deck online anywhere? I spent some time brewing Mangara and would be interested!

At some point I'll post it here. My decks tend to stay in flux as I swap in new stuff.

[duducrash]

I usually pick a commander/theme and go trogh my collection putting anything that might be cool with it on a fat pack. Then I'll spend the next few months trading and getting some cards. Eventually I'll trim it down to a deck