The Way of the One True Warrior - Kellan Equipment Toolbox

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

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Kellan, the Fae-Blooded is "yet another" boros equipment commander. That said, he's really the first one that properly excites me and I want to explain why.

There's a particularly aesthetic strategy that I've strived for with a variety of commanders - I'm going to dub it the "One True Warrior" (OTW). Roughly, what it looks like is:

-Commander damage kills as a primary wincon

-Equipment over auras as a more durable, less quick-and-dirty option

-Generating value primarily from attack/damage triggers

-Focusing on value as typically a primary goal with combat damage as a necessary side effect

-Moderating threat level by not overcommitting buffs (at least until setting up lethal)

Basically, you've got a valiant knight who does all your killing and value generation, the slow, honorable, difficult way, while you're the mage behind him knocking down everyone's %$#%$#% combos or whatever.

Unfortunately every boros equipment commander to date is...pretty bad at filling in this role, tbh. To explain why, let's go through every single one of them, in chronological order. For fun!

Tiana, Ship's Caretaker - I think people forget that up until this wet fart was squirted into existence in 2018, RW - THE equipment colors - had nary a mention of equipment on any commanders. The fact that it took so long to get one is honestly insane. There were some pseudo-equipment-related commanders like Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer that people made do with, but it just wasn't the same. And then the first one we got was absolute DOG PISS. Awful stats, and her ability synergizes much more directly with auras than with equipment (this will be a recurring problem) - equipment doesn't tend to go to the graveyard that often, because it's not reliant on the underlying creature the way auras are. She's completely unfeasible as a commander damage threat and her abilities don't help the plan basically at all. Next!

Akiri, Fearless Voyager was a huge step in the right directly, another 2 years later. She got rid of the aura crap (yay), had decent stats (yay) and had several good abilities that synergized with equipment (yay). However, she still had a couple problems. One is the shuko problem - she cares only that there is equipment, not that the equipment is actually any good, and in fact the cheaper the equip cost the better. The other is that, while less egregious than some others on this list, she wants you to go at least somewhat wide, and put your equipment onto other creatures, to get maximum draw value. This makes things unnecessarily complicated for our OTW, who now needs a bunch of extra dudes hanging around and cramping their style. Solid effort, but not quite there.

Reyav, Master Smith came built-in with one of the best keywords an equipment commander could want - double strike. Personally, all I ever want to do with an equipment commander is get double sword triggers all day, every day. His rate is good and he fits nicely into a curve. But...he's kinda boring. Double strikers without direct equipment synergy have existed since Scourge (iirc) with a number available in the command zone. His cost is efficient, but it can push him into too-dangerous territory for the turn, motivating removal, and it also motivates quick-and-dirty kills with auras (ew) rather than slower value grinds.

Wyleth, Soul of Steel is the most obvious voltron commander to ever exist, and on paper he looks perfect. In reality, though, he's everything wrong with commander product cards. Take a cool archetype, and make it dump card draw like it's a strip club the day after tax rebates. He also motivates running tons of cheap jank rather than more expensive but powerful equipment - the shukos over swords problem. And of course, we can't leave out the %$#%$#% filthy enchantment players. Wyleth generates way too much value way too quickly if left unchecked, and so he will always bring removal down upon himself. He incentivizes dumb deck construction like running tons of 1-mana auras rather than strong, reliable, sexually-gratifying swords of X and Y. Boo, I say.

Koll, the Forgemaster is transparently not made to hold equipment himself. Fair enough, it's a flavor win I guess, but he's obviously disqualified from being an OTW. While it's hardly relevant at this point, he's also a shuko-over-swords guy, and built correctly he usually cares a lot more about which creatures he's recurring than what the actual equipment does. The equipment is just a way to reuse the etb of the creature. Neat design, but definitely not an OTW.

Bruenor Battlehammer suffers from a different problem - he kills people too quickly. Throw a double-strike equipment and a sword on him - basically the #1 thing I want to do with any equipment commander that doesn't have built-in double strike - and he's literally a one-hit-kill, thus making the value aspect of swords pretty irrelevant. The equip discount is nice, but his high stats and power boosting effect means that he's built to KO people quickly rather than ride the line of acceptable-threat while racking up damage and value. If I wanted a fast kill I'd play a different archetype.

Astor, Bearer of Blades is very similar to Bruenor with some of the rougher edges sanded off. He's no longer quite as threatening, instead generating some etb value that gives you extra equipment. The equip discount is similar, though generally a little worse I think. While he's functional, I think he's mostly just kinda...boring. Discounting a sword's equip cost by 1 is a pretty minor effect for a 4-drop, and looking through 7 cards will probably give you an extra equipment but it won't give you a ton of selection. He's fine, but I can't see myself getting out of bed for him.

Jor Kadeen, First Goldwarden is another stupid one. We're supposed to equip stuff onto other creatures so we can boost our commander's power by...one? Why wouldn't we just equip our commander? It's obviously supposed to synergize with the For Mirrodin equipment from the set, but most of it is jank and none of it (nor existing living weapons) are worth playing just to buff the commander by +1/+1. So instead we're basically just left with a fairly-efficient 2-drop that draws a card once he's been properly equipped. Which is okay, but I'd probably rather have reyav tbh.

Nahiri, Forged in Fury looks like she's doing tons of equipment stuff but when you look closer...meh? Her cost discount is okay, but wouldn't be necessary if she didn't have a huge awkward CMC. Her power is too high to work well with the sword-trigger value plan. She's very much a shuko-over-swords commander. And she definitely pushes you towards going wide with a bunch of singly-equipped creatures yet again. She wants a deck of small janky equipment and token production, not an OTW plan.

Merry, Esquire of Rohan barely merits mentioning. His payoff for bothering to equip him is...first strike? He's clearly a legendary tribal commander, not equipment. I suspect wotc just hadn't met their wordiness quota yet when they tacked that completely irrelevant line of text onto him.

And finally we now have Kellan, the Fae-Blooded. Now, Kellan's got some problems. He cares about auras. He buffs your other creatures, and that buff ability cares more about quantity over quality. BUT he manages to be great despite this, because he's still an excellent OTW if you pretend he doesn't have that buffing ability, which is precisely what I plan to do. Honestly outside of some incidental buffs I doubt it's worth focusing around him as an anthem anyway, too predictable, too much setup, and too easy to remove at an inopportune time. If it lets you trade up every once in a while, cool, but otherwise I think it's best to ignore.

So setting that aside, Kellan is excellent. Double strike is extremely valuable, and lets us avoid running a lot of double-strike equipment that is otherwise necessary. But of course the main event is the tutor...which I will talk about right after I mention that the form factor of having an adventure makes him much easier to protect when recasting late-game. Rather than needing to tap most, or all, of your mana to plonk him onto the board and pray he doesn't eat removal, you can cast the adventure side, then on the next turn cast him for an easy-peasy three and then have tons of mana up to pay equip costs or hold up protective spells. So that's kinda neat. Of course you can also just pay full retail if you don't want the added expense of the tutor, though it's only 2 extra mana in total regardless of the tax so I assume it'll usually be worth it.

Okay, finally, the main event - having Open the Armory in the command zone is AWESOME. It doesn't even come at a premium, which is insane considering OtA is already a very popular and powerful card - well inside the top 50 white cards on EDHrec - and it just gets massively strictly-bettered by casually adding "draw an entire second powerful card" onto it. It's a Divination combined with a tutor for TWO MANA. It perfectly fits into a tight 2-3 curve, of course. And because we always have an equipment tutor in the command zone, rather than loading the deck full of equipment so that we can reliably draw them, we could easily go as low as a small handful of equipment for our value AND wincon, leaving the entire rest of the deck flexible.

So, what are we tutoring? Let's take a look.

Umezawa's Jitte
Jitte stands out for fitting perfectly into the curve after playing Kellan, and can do absolutely disgusting things with double strike, either by tactically removing creatures or simply killing players horrifyingly quickly.

Sword of the Animist
Doesn't synergize with double strike, but it fits nicely into curve and works even when blocked.

Swiftfoot Boots
Not very exciting, but could be played on T3 so that Kellan is protected right after entering on turn 4. Sometimes you just need protection.

Blackblade Reforged
Decent late-game finisher, but not something I'd tutor early when we want value and don't have a ton of lands. Probably unnecessary late-game anyway since we'll hopefully have enough individually equipment to find lethals without a single big one, unless they've been wiped somehow.

Shadowspear
Possible tech inclusion, trample and lifelink are also decent though not exactly "value".

Darksteel Mutation
How insane is it that we can literally have a commander-neutralizing aura available from the command zone?

Sword Cycle time!
Sword of Truth and Justice
Probably doesn't do much except make Kellan a faster clock, which is kinda boring.
Sword of Once and Future
Might have some control spells to flashback, I'm not a huge fan of sorcery-speed combat-only removal though. Too bad he can't flashback himself.
Sword of Sinew and Steel
Despite what I just said, Sinew and Steel I like more since it's reliable and gives us reliable answers to certain permanent types - pws can be hard for a 1-creature deck. Still just okay though.
Sword of Forge and Frontier
I love the value here. Answers can be awkward impulse draws, but extra lands is awesome and drawing 4 cards in a turn is nutty.
Sword of Hearth and Home
Can't really exploit the blink probably, but ramping 2 lands is solid. Not as good as SoFaF but still decent.
Sword of Light and Shadow
Could be okay with more creatures, and the protections are probably the 2 best, but the triggers are not so useful for a mostly-1-creature build.
Sword of Feast and Famine
Surprisingly mid here I think - it's risky to rely on the untap for control purposes, we prefer to play most proactive spells (i.e. equipment) before combat, the double discard is usually meh, and we effectively get zero value from the second untap trigger. Not awful but I don't think I'd run it.
Sword of Body and Mind
It does mill a ton, but that's more of a liability. I like getting the wolf tokens, but otherwise bad.
Sword of Fire and Ice
The classic value equipment. Drawing 2 while pinging off some utility dorks is a great way to slightly check the table while keeping yourself on gas.
Sword of War and Peace
Not as bad as people think imo. Gaining 10 life or so is a big game, as is nugging someone for a ton, even if it's not commander damage. People like to have big hands.

Loxodon Warhammer
Probably less versatile than shadowspear but lifelink is a good way to keep yourself in the game and trample is a good way to finish it.

Mithril Coat
Probably not something I'd search for right away, but could be useful when being harassed by removal in the late-game.

Darksteel Plate
Eclipsed by Mithril Coat I think.

Mask of Memory
No buffs or protection, but tons of draw power.

Hammer of Nazahn
Kinda awkward since I think you'll want something more value-focused early-on, and the equip ability is pretty irrelevant late, but it's still a strong on-curve play especially if you already drew value-based equipment for later turns.

Lion Sash
Good grave hate from an equipment? Also doubles as a voltron wincon? Also can carry equipment itself in a pinch? Utterly insane.

Trailblazer's Boots
I don't think they're necessary.

Sunforger
I absolutely love sunforger BUT I think it's probably the wrong first tutor for the deck. It's so slow, and vulnerable before it can be equipped. Imo wait until late-game to tutor it so you can play and equip it and still have RW up.

Mantle of the Ancients
Possible last-ditch-effort wincon if you've gotten blown up a couple times.

Robe of Stars
Very strong protection, but awkward to keep up in the early turns. Probably very strong late, though removal still neutralizes attacks. I could be persuaded but I'm skeptical.

The Reaver Cleaver
Generates a pretty stupid amount of mana, perfect for keeping control shields up, plus solid evasion. Only downside is it's expensive to play and equip.

Komainu Battle Armor
I think this won't be too useful since if you're getting through, they probably don't have a great board anyway. And costs are very steep. But maybe.

Cloudsteel Kirin
Probably not worth it, but how funny is it to have a Platinum Angel in the CZ?

Batterskull
Interesting mostly for pumping the breaks on commander damage, as it provides an alternative body with solid stats. Kinda expensive in 2023 though.

Inquisitor's Flail
Very underrated imo. Can make lethal damage very quickly for a low cost.

Horn of Valhalla // Ysgard's Call
I probably wouldn't bother, but definitely interesting to have access to a decent go-wide card in the command zone. Probably worth it if you want to exploit the buff ability for some reason.

Benevolent Blessing
Really strong protection once it's in-hand, though it lacks equipment robustness.

Minimus Containment
I don't really like this card, but having removal for any nonland permanent in the command zone is kiiiinda nuts.

Champion's Helm
Better swiftfoot boots?

Angelic Destiny
I mean in fairness this literally kills someone on turn 5 with no other cards required. That's pretty dumb.

Hexplate Wallbreaker
Kinda pricey, but getting that double-double is very spicy. Don't even really need to re-equip to the commander tbh.

Spectra Ward
Can't be blocked-ish and hexproof-ish. Decent but kinda pricey.

Sigiled Sword of Valeron
Kinda pricey for an alternative SoBaM but it's alright.

Worldslayer
C'mon. Don't.

Overwhelming Splendor
I mean 8 is a ton but it's hilarious that this is an option.

Hand of Vecna/Empyrial Plate
Pretty solid option for getting fast kills. But not quite enough for an otk so angelic destiny is probably better.

Faith's Fetters
One last removal option...probably worse than minimus containment

Andúril, Flame of the West
Probably the best token-creating option if you want to go that route.

Destructive Urge
You probably shouldn't. But honestly I can't believe this card is as unused as it is. It's so gross on a fast double-striking voltron commander. T2 Reyav T3 urge? Fuggedaboutit.

Okay that's about all I'm seeing.

As far as the rest of the list...well, I think it's pretty obvious what I plan to do. Lots of interaction/sunforger targets, fast mana like Mox Diamond to accelerate us by a turn - worth noting that if you cast the tutor T2 without playing any other cards, you're discarding to hand size, so having a decent smattering of 0-1 drops of some description is probably worthwhile (hi Mother of Runes). Red and White have sooooome stack interaction, but mostly we're relying on removal. Finding wipes that can leave us alone should be a viable option with reliably access to indestructible equipment, or we could just say "sod it" and recast for extra tutor value.

Anyway, that's about all my thoughts at the moment. Quite excited to finally have an excellent Boros option for this sort of deck archetype.
Last edited by DirkGently 9 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

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Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

I think my favorite thing about this guy is that you don't have to commit to the board at all up front so you can just get a batterskull or a Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus or something and run out sweepers as you need to.

I would not probably go like, sweeper tribal, but my inclination would be to build a slightly controlling shell that eventually drops Kellan, the Fae-Blooded, slaps some pants on him and goes to town.

Living Weapon equips and haste effects are really clutch. I'd be getting Lightning Greaves a pretty high percentage of the time, since "play whatever requip I draw and then tutor for greaves so I have haste" feels like a great plan.

Skullclamp is another one that I would think a lot about, since obviously clamping dudes is a great way to guarantee a stream of card advantage.

I think you're underselling the insane value engine that is Sword of Light and Shadow -- the ability to recur Kellan, the Fae-Blooded over and over could be an engine on its own. Get Sword, let Kellan die, sword him back over and over.

--

Because Kellan buffs your team and is himself kinda resilient to sweepers (because if he dies you get another equipment and you can leave him in exile for a while) I'd be pretty strongly inclined toward making tokens and getting Skullclamp as your primary early game strategy. The guarantee of clamp in the zone means you can run efficient token generators (or even fairly inefficient ones; slapping a lifelink sword on Kellan, the Fae-Blooded and playing Dawn of Hope / Well of Lost Dreams could be a decent strategy too).

--

I get you're doin your own thing with the one true warrior thing, but figured I'd share some tangential thoughts :)

--

Overall, the curve of Kellan, the Fae-Blooded equipment tutor → Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus feels like it might be what I would build my gameplan around. It's super resilient, doesn't require any real commitment, and presents endgame mana after just a couple turns if it doesn't get bothered.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

pokken wrote:
9 months ago
I think my favorite thing about this guy is that you don't have to commit to the board at all up front so you can just get a batterskull or a Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus or something and run out sweepers as you need to.

I would not probably go like, sweeper tribal, but my inclination would be to build a slightly controlling shell that eventually drops Kellan, the Fae-Blooded, slaps some pants on him and goes to town.
I could see slowing the roll a little bit in favor of a more controlling line - t3 bitterthorn is solid (or it would be if I @#$#@$ had one...stupid NZ and its crappy singles selection...). I don't think I'd commit 100% to this line but having options is sorta the point of a toolbox.
Living Weapon equips and haste effects are really clutch. I'd be getting Lightning Greaves a pretty high percentage of the time, since "play whatever requip I draw and then tutor for greaves so I have haste" feels like a great plan.
Not sure I follow. I like haste as much as the next guy but most living weapons aren't that impressive to swing with, especially alone. And while I do love greaves, I'm always a bit wary of it in a creature-light voltron deck.
Skullclamp is another one that I would think a lot about, since obviously clamping dudes is a great way to guarantee a stream of card advantage.
Kellan does potentially let you treat specific equipment as a secret commander, and skullclamp is arguably the most powerful equipment ever made. That said, it does require a steady flow of tokens to be good and I don't really see doing that with my version of the deck.
I think you're underselling the insane value engine that is Sword of Light and Shadow -- the ability to recur Kellan, the Fae-Blooded over and over could be an engine on its own. Get Sword, let Kellan die, sword him back over and over.
I need to have another creature that can get through, I need to let Kellan go to my actual graveyard (itself potentially a hurdle) where, if someone blows up my recursion outlet or my attacker or even just has sufficient blockers, he might be permanently stranded, and then my big payoff is that I get a repeatable 5 mana equipment tutor? That does not sound like an "insane value engine" to me, that sounds complex, vulnerable, and slow.
Because Kellan buffs your team and is himself kinda resilient to sweepers (because if he dies you get another equipment and you can leave him in exile for a while) I'd be pretty strongly inclined toward making tokens and getting Skullclamp as your primary early game strategy. The guarantee of clamp in the zone means you can run efficient token generators (or even fairly inefficient ones; slapping a lifelink sword on Kellan, the Fae-Blooded and playing Dawn of Hope / Well of Lost Dreams could be a decent strategy too).
That probably sounds like a different deck. Though fwiw I really think relying on Kellan as a buffing tool sounds really mid considering the effort and vulnerability involved. Skullclamp as secret commander could certainly be strong although skullclamp does have a habit of getting blown up (rightfully).
Overall, the curve of Kellan, the Fae-Blooded equipment tutor → Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus feels like it might be what I would build my gameplan around. It's super resilient, doesn't require any real commitment, and presents endgame mana after just a couple turns if it doesn't get bothered.
I do think it's an interesting line, though I think most games will not struggle to put blockers in front of a 1/1. But maybe that's just my sour grapes and being unable to find one. I can't find a reaver cleaver either, blurg.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 9 months ago

Good write up. I was thinking about him today at work, aura/equipments that make dorks sound like double value. Like the sword of mill and wolves

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

duducrash wrote:
9 months ago
Good write up. I was thinking about him today at work, aura/equipments that make dorks sound like double value. Like the sword of mill and wolves
It's nice to have sac fodder or chump blockers (amusingly Andúril, Flame of the West would be a better card in this deck if the tokens were untapped rather than attacking when equipped to a legendary). If you're producing tokens by punching people with an equipped double striker, though, I think you're probably going to kill most people with commander damage faster than you can with the token swarm.

I think SoBaM might be the only equipment that produces tokens on hit within the CI, which is kinda surprising. Commanding Presence if we include auras, but yech. There's a couple that produce on attacks, including anduril which is probably the best one, but obviously those are less exciting since they only trigger once.

I could see a build using Horn of Valhalla // Ysgard's Call in the late game to produce a big army and buff it with Kellan. Won't be my build though, that sounds kinda jank.
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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

Between Sword of the Animist and Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus, I think I like Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus more. both of them start ramping on t4, but you don't have to commit your commander to the board on t3 with Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus, and if/when your opponents all have blockers for a 1/1, you can send in the germ for one last swing, then cast your commander.

Edit: Also, you just have 2 bodies instead of one, so if your germ gets killed before you get even one trigger off of it, you have a 3 drop in reserve to pick it back up.

would be sick if you could play Wand of Orcus or Lucille, but most of the available token equipment are just okay. I do think you're underselling Andúril, Flame of the West a little bit, I know you are largely ignoring the anthem affect, but its likely going to be 2 4/1 fliers every turn. Again, not saying you should run Captain's Claws, but just Andúril, Flame of the West might be good here.

Idk, Kellan, the Fae-Blooded has been stumping me, so I'm eager to see what you come up with.
Last edited by Dunadain 9 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

Also, what's jank about Horn of Valhalla // Ysgard's Call? It's a one-card, tutorable win-con.

I'm not saying it's a build around card, but if you're already running Sword of the Animist/Sword of Hearth and Home/Sword of Forge and Frontier/Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus, then a tutorable X spell to dump all that mana in seems pretty decent.
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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
9 months ago
Living Weapon equips and haste effects are really clutch. I'd be getting Lightning Greaves a pretty high percentage of the time, since "play whatever requip I draw and then tutor for greaves so I have haste" feels like a great plan.
Not sure I follow. I like haste as much as the next guy but most living weapons aren't that impressive to swing with, especially alone. And while I do love greaves, I'm always a bit wary of it in a creature-light voltron deck.
What I mean here is that your sequence of play a living weapon early and using it for value/defense and then equipping along with a haste enabler later on Kellan as a way to blast someone out of nowhere - without having put kellan at risk - is probably a good sequence.

*most* of the living weapons aren't great but there are quite a few good ones
Kaldra is especially good cos it brings its own haste :P but you need some ways to cheat it on probably -- Puresteel Paladin works the best I think with this strategy. oddly most of the cheat equipment on package triggers on ETB which is countersynergy with living weapons

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

On my phone before work at 2:30 AM so I'll be concise.

@Dunadain anduril is very good despite its weaknesses, so it's definitely under consideration. Probably not 4/1s unless I've already recast kellan a few times though. I think a low equipment count is preferable.

Horn is sorcery and expensive and reliant on a living, heavily-equipped commander to be effective, which sounds extremely telegraphed and disruptable. It's very different from other equipments in effect so I can see it making sense in a toolbox but it's probably more of a defensive play than wincon unless you get really lucky and no one has any interaction.

I need to make it clear how much I disdain the go-wide plan lol. We already have many many Boros commanders who cover that ground with a lot less setup.

@pokken i only really like bitterthorn out of those tbh. I have a nostalgia for batterskull but I think it's too slow and lacks important utilities - loxodon warhammer gives us better text at lower cost. Kaldra is so expensive on both sides and provides zero actual value, big meh imo. The others are smol early so uninteresting plays imo, plus still no damn value. I want value! It's not so bad if kellan dies anyway since it gives us another tutor. I don't see too much point in sandbagging him outside of the specific bitterthorn line.

Btw might have a lead on getting a bitterthorn. Probably paying double for it though.

I don't think I'd run pure steel since I expect a low equipment count. Probably aiming for…8 or so? Fewer if I can but 8 sounds like a good expectation.

Edit: there are some more interesting for mirrodin and reconfigure cards btw, which are both similar.

Edit2: okay fewer than I thought: Hexplate Wallbreaker, Lion Sash, Komainu Battle Armor, and Cloudsteel Kirin could potentially be interesting.
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Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
9 months ago

I need to make it clear how much I disdain the go-wide plan lol. We already have many many Boros commanders who cover that ground with a lot less setup.
Oh come on, you got to at least try Forth Eorlingas! and maybe Decree of Justice lol. They cantrip (sort of) and don't require surviving a turn cycle before swinging.
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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

Continuing with the brainstorming, Robe of Stars, which I've been interested in finding a home for, is probably pretty decent here, especially in a deck that's often going to be holding up wr for Sunforger anyways.

On board-protection is usually not as compelling as cards hidden in your hand, since your opponents can just hold onto their removal until you're tapped out or something, but it's tutorable and protects both Kellan, the Fae-Blooded AND all of his equipment.

Edit: sorry to keep adding things, just bringing stuff up as I think of them, but if I've learned anything from Ebondeath, Dracolich, it's that extra bodies are very good if your deck is built around equipment triggers, as your commander can't always swing, and a random body to swing with can provide a lot of triggers you'd otherwise miss out on (is also just nice to have a couple blockers).

In Ebondeath, Dracolich, those bodies are usually Bladewing's Thrall or Poxwalkers. But that role could also be filled by some tokens, or even something weird like Fervent Champion.

At the very least, Castle Ardenvale has got to be great in the deck.
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
Oh come on, you got to at least try
Nope and you can't make me.

In seriousness, I don't think they'd be very good in my build. I'm not planning to play a ton of equipment so it's not like I'd be getting a massive buff. Commander damage is the only damage I care about. While there is some good ramp equipment like bitterthorn I don't think big ramp is otherwise important to the strat so I don't think it's worth overfocusing on either.

Anyway if I wanted to play that deck I would have built Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer back when he was "the boros equipment commander".
Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
Continuing with the brainstorming, Robe of Stars, which I've been interested in finding a home for, is probably pretty decent here, especially in a deck that's often going to be holding up wr for Sunforger anyways.
I'm not sure how much I like robe. Being able to protect your equipment is admittedly nice, but as protection from targeted removal it seems very mid. The mana cost can leave you vulnerable to well-planned assaults, and being able to fog an attack with removal can slow us down significantly. Probably better to just go hexproof and be done with it. Though swords may provide that utility instead. I'll see how we're doing on slots. Robe does provide a type of protection that can't really be gotten elsewhere, admittedly.
Edit: sorry to keep adding things, just bringing stuff up as I think of them, but if I've learned anything from Ebondeath, Dracolich, it's that extra bodies are very good if your deck is built around equipment triggers,

[...]

At the very least, Castle Ardenvale has got to be great in the deck.
We'll have some tutorable living weapon/for mirrodin/reconfigure equipment, probably some 1-drops with good utilities like mom, and maybe some manlands if there's space. Castle ardenvale has a decent shot of making the cut but I don't think it's amazing or anything. We have a lot of deck space to dedicate to protective spells, removal for on-board removal like grave pact, etc, so I think keeping our boy alive when it's important should be doable. Ebondeath it's not really worth protecting as much since he can bounce back on his own, kind of a different situation.
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Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

I'll drop it, but Kellan, the Fae-Blooded is pretty much a strictly better Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer, he's cheaper, already has double strike, gives an anthem effect before you have the artifacts, and can give an even bigger anthem effect in the late game (obviously not truly "strictly" better, but pretty darn close).

All that before considering he can also be an Open the Armory.

I'll make my own deck eventually, but I'm following this thread to see if you give me any good ideas. XD
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
I'll drop it, but Kellan, the Fae-Blooded is pretty much a strictly better Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer, he's cheaper, already has double strike, gives an anthem effect before you have the artifacts, and can give an even bigger anthem effect in the late game (obviously not truly "strictly" better, but pretty darn close).

All that before considering he can also be an Open the Armory.

I'll make my own deck eventually, but I'm following this thread to see if you give me any good ideas. XD
Jor has a few advantages, though obviously he's much weaker in sum. But then Kellan has 12 more years of power creep and commander precons to fight against.

If you just want him as an anthem I honestly think they're not that different. Getting 3 equipment/auras attached to Kellan will likely drive the total mana (not to mention card) investment significantly higher than jor's 5 mana, and you can count mana rocks and artifact creatures, even artifact lands towards Jor's buff so it's pretty trivial to get compared to Kellan. Jor does cap at 3 but getting more than 3 things attached to Kellan is a pretty massive investment unless your deck is 90% Shukos or whatever.

But if I'm being honest, it wouldn't matter to me if it was worth it to go wide with Kellan because that strat does not interest me, at all. When I complained about not having a boros equipment commander in 2011 and people pointed to Jor Kadeen, there was a reason I turned my nose up at him (and don't even get me started on the Basandra, Battle Seraph debacle, oy vey - being a boros fan in 2011 was rough). Now that we have a really, really good equipment commander I'm sure as %$#% not going to make the Jor Kadeen deck with it.
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Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
9 months ago

But if I'm being honest, it wouldn't matter to me if it was worth it to go wide with Kellan because that strat does not interest me, at all. When I complained about not having a boros equipment commander in 2011 and people pointed to Jor Kadeen, there was a reason I turned my nose up at him (and don't even get me started on the Basandra, Battle Seraph debacle, oy vey - being a boros fan in 2011 was rough). Now that we have a really, really good equipment commander I'm sure as %$#% not going to make the Jor Kadeen deck with it.

Fair enough, to be honest, sounds like we are making the same deck, I'm just runnign a couple cards like White Sun's Zenith so that I can close out games more quickly.

There's really no need to build around Kellan's anthem effect, +2/+0 is already a very respectable anthem effect.
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

I'm focusing on the equipment/aura list to start with. Here's where I'm at so far, still want to cut it down by a lot obviously but I did start with ~100 so we're getting there:

Protection Swifties are a decent haste outlet and hexproof is the simplest way to ensure we connect. Really the only weakness is board wipes (which aren't so bad), removing him in response to the equip, and artifact removal. Robe does protect well against most of those. Coat nicely offers protection in response, but it's presumably telegraphed if tutored. Hammer is mostly a value proposition with indestructible as a bonus, probably my least favorite of the 4 but I think it still merits consideration in a world where tempo is king.

Value I think SoFaI beats out other draw equipment like Mask of Memory because it provides protection and evasion and a stat bump, plus the ping can be a nice add. Mask can be bricked fairly easily by blockers. Bitterthorn I think beats out Sword of the animist for that nice 2-3 line. Sunforger is king, mostly a late-game ploy but it can utterly dominate there. Beatstick wouldn't be in contention except that I think 1-drops are going to be highly valued so we can avoid discarding on 2. And menace is a nice keyword in the early game, and the treasure token is pretty solid with the double strike.

Beatdown I don't think there are options that can plausibly create a 1-hit-kill completely on their own, at least not early enough to matter. Angelic destiny seems like the fastest kill for pure speed, first kill T5 with nothing in hand besides hitting land drops, with evasion and recursion for the aura. Hand of Vecna can provide a bigger power boost but no evasion and not enough to make a 1hko so not much point I don't think. Hexplate gives the possibility of a multi-opponent kill which is very valuable, plus it just hits like a truck no matter what, 16 damage with no other equipment and it provides a free body who can swing for the trigger too. Shadowspear I think just hits the right buttons - costs 1 to avoid T2 discard, provides valuable keywords, gives an out to otherwise difficult to interact with boards. Footfall is another one that wouldn't really be in consideration except it costs 1, plus it can always be cycled so it's never awful, and trample is a valuable keyword for obvious reasons.

Removal I'm more willing to run extras in this category since removal will be a big chunk of the deck and not ALL of it needs to be instants. Mutation I think is the best commander removal, minimus is the best all-purpose removal. Splendor is expensive but a way to completely eliminate an entire player, could be very valuable in a 1v1 endgame which ofc we anticipate as a voltron deck. Komainu has been growing on me, it's honestly a pretty gnarly creature in its own right for only 3 mana and could be a possible alternative line to the 2-3 Kellan and Bitterthorn lines. Once it gets through, it becomes difficult to block unless you can play multiple creatures in a turn, and even then there's removal. Reconfigure is also nice since it gives you a body on board post creature-wipe, ready to go. Lion sash, same deal, it's also the best grave hate tutorable by Kellan I think. Jitte is arguably more of a beatdown equipment since it can kill people really, really fast, but it does also provide extremely rare instant-speed removal on an equipment, or lifegain in a pinch. SoOaF I do think we will have a lot of targets for, including a lot of removal. Maybe that's not enough to make it interesting, though.

Esoteric I'll admit I'm not sure how often I'd actually have Kirin in play at the point where I need it, so it's probably not actually worth it, but it is so damn unique I kinda want to give it a go. Masterwork is probably unnecessary but being able to double up on any equipment does provide a lot of possible options, and can copy enemy equipment which is interesting.
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

I think that looks like a really good balance overall. Mostly cards I would play.

I would think about having a 1 cmc removal (Chained to the Rocks or On Thin Ice) maybe.

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Hear ye, hear ye - I have descended from the mountaintops (aka my morning paper run) with some deep political insights.

The theme of today is: leaving your opponents an "out".

I think it'll be easiest to split into 2 parts: the first broadly applicable, and the second more specific to equipment/voltron strategies.

Part 1

In a multiplayer game, up until the endgame, you can't realistically expect to wage an all-out war against every opponent at once and win. If you can, it's probably because your deck is significantly too powerful for the meta. So in the early game, you're not sizing up your opponents to outright kill them, but rather to ensure that you have an "out" against them. You know that they're building some sort of win condition, whether it's a wide board of tokens, a combo, or a voltron commander. At some point, if left completely unhindered, they'll assemble a threat that is insurmountable. If that happens, they will win. So, you're gauging how far along they are in that process, and weighing their threat level accordingly. Key to this is identifying how you can react to them moving closer to that threat than anticipated - you might have removal or a counterspell to break up their combo, a fog to delay their attack, a board wipe to destroy their army, or if all else fails, you can just kill them before they kill you. You probably don't have sufficient answers to every opponent simultaneously, so a lot of your "outs" will be doubled up - removal that could work on multiple opponents' plans, etc. If one of those opponents stumbles and their wincon isn't materializing quickly enough to threaten you, then you can save the removal for someone who is more dangerous. An important element of being a good commander player - a critical element, in my opinion - is knowing when you need to start throwing out the removal, making alliances, launching near-suicidal attacks, etc in order to bring someone down. Too early and you'll throw away too many resources unnecessarily and lose to attrition. Too late and you'll either pay significantly higher costs to dismantle a more established threat than you might have if you'd nipped it in the bud - or you might be too late entirely, and simply lose.

This is all pretty basic stuff for experienced players I think. But let's go a layer deeper and consider it from the other side.

Throughout the game you're assembling a wincon, even if that's simply getting lands in play to cast some future spells. And while you do this, your opponents are doing all that ^ stuff to assess you as a threat and whether/how they should intervene to slow or stop your progress. If they do decide to do so, it could potentially be devastating - from removing key permanents, or even sending their lethal attack at you before the other opponents if they see you as the biggest threat. Naturally, as savvy political operatives, we want to avoid this conflict as long as possible. So how do we do this? We have to lull our opponents into a false sense of security by making them believe that they have an "out" against us, even if they don't.

For a good negative example of this, the card Grand Abolisher. Obviously a very powerful tool for locking out interaction when you have a win ready to go. But if you tempo it out early, it's likely to eat removal, probably even moreso than an actual combo piece. Because the combo piece, even though it does indicate that the doomsday clock has moved further along, does not itself prevent interaction, which is the source of many "outs". People may hold their removal at the ready, but they won't necessarily fire it off because they can presumably do so later, when the threat fully materializes. The abolisher, on the other hand, doesn't signify a wincon at all, but it does cut off the possibility of interaction with a wincon that might exist, and that will make any good player very nervous. So run out the abolisher early and you'll probably find that you lose resources to removal even if you had nothing threatening going on at all. You've made a very bad political move and paid the price.

But while removal is often the "out" last line of defense, the first and largest "out" is simply for your opponents not to draw the necessary components to win. It's a big deck after all. So often the best way of providing your opponents a false out, to lull them into complacency, is simply to hold back on your wincon until the right moment so that your opponents will assume their first line of defense has been successful. Of course they will likely have secondary defenses in their hands, but they might not leave up mana, or as much mana, if they assume you are still a long ways away from assembling a win. This is part of why winning via combo is so trivially easy - because it can win with so little revealed, your opponents have to be especially vigilant in order to stop you.

But what about for a strategy that's a little...less subtle? Well, that brings us to...

Part 2

I love voltron...conceptually. In practice, though, it's kind of a nightmare. It's the complete opposite of combo in a lot of ways. Voltron strats can be seen coming a mile away. Catching an opponent unawares with a voltron strat usually requires either a lucky break or an exceptionally thick opponent.

The classic voltron objective is to assemble something like a 11 power, indestructible, hexproof, unblockable, double striking commander, and then point it at each different opponent in turn for the win. Doing this is extremely freaking hard, though, because putting all that nonsense together involves a lot of commitment in both cards and mana, and thus usually takes quite a few turns, in addition to the time spent actually killing separate opponents. And it's all usually extremely face-up, giving your opponents both a good idea of how threatening you are, and (especially for the less experienced players) a significant dose of fear. "Oh no, his commander is huge! Fire all the removal! Now!" nevermind the combo player sitting on a grip of 20 cards...those are unknown and thus might not be game-winning (lul).

So okay, how do we avoid this situation, at least as much as is possible?

I think you can break down the pieces of the voltron "combo" into essentially 3 parts, with a 4th bonus part.

1) Damage
2) Evasion
3) Protection
4) Side effects (value triggers etc)

Technically none of these are completely mandatory. If they don't have blockers, evasion is unnecessary. If they don't have removal, protection is unnecessary. If they aren't putting any pressure on you, you could kill them with a base-power commander over a number of turns. But typically those first 3 things will be desirable. (The fourth point is mentioned for completeness but doesn't really have much bearing on your wincon most of the time. Everyone else is also generating value. Your opponents might find your value generation concerning if it's really out of hand, but in general it's the threat of commander damage that they're ultimately concerned with)

Now we "need" those three things in order to assemble our wincon, but we don't want to bring down our opponents removal - or attacks - upon us any earlier than necessary. We can take a note from the discrete combo player here - keeping part of our voltron "combo" in hand allows us to seem less threatening than we are. We probably can't plausibly keep the whole thing in hand - buffing to 21 damage with evasion and protection would require a ton of mana to deploy all in one turn. So let's consider the options - we've got 3 elements, which of those 3 should we keep concealed in order to best reduce enemy threat assessment?

Now, against weaker opponents with low-interaction decks, I think a case could be made for damage or evasion. But I think most experienced players will appreciate that a good voltron deck can easily find evasion or even a big power boost in a single turn. If the commander is hexproof and unblockable, needing only a Blackblade Reforged to make it lethal, that will be quite threatening. If the commander is indestructible and deals 21 damage, finding a Trailblazer's Boots is even more trivial. So I think the clear choice is #3. We want the commander to appear vulnerable to removal, because as long as it is, our opponents won't feel the need to use their removal until it's swinging at them. As soon as we try to make it invincible, people are going to start freaking out and trying to find chinks in the armor.

The practical upshot is straightforward - ditch Swiftfoot Boots and Mithril Coat. Embrace Loran's Escape.

There are multiple other reasons I think this makes a lot of sense. Equipment is a poor protection for a couple reasons - it can (usually) only be equipped as a sorcery, leaving a window of interaction, and the equipment itself can be destroyed. Loran's Escape and similar has neither weakness. Also, escape can protect equipment in case removal is aimed at the equipment providing the damage or the evasion. The same is true of Blacksmith's Skill. That's not true for all protective spells though. I'll take a look through the options and see what's available. They do seem to like printing these W: hexproof indestructible instants these days, I suspect we'll see more in the future.

Now, that's not to say protective equipment has no place, just that it shouldn't try to render the commander completely impervious. I actually still like Robe of Stars, for a couple reasons. It's capable of protecting against almost anything, but it has the weakness of nullifying the attack when used, thus leaving an "out" to instant-speed removal. In some ways I think this can actually be more effective at lulling into a false security. People expect a voltron commander to be protected. If it's not, savvy players may expect some means of interaction waiting in the hand, and play accordingly. But with robe out, I think more people will assume "okay, that's the protection he's got...I've got a targeted removal spell, so I can fog his next attack, giving me time to deploy my own wincon". Then they're more likely to be surprised when, rather than blinking, you run out the Loran's and blow them out. And finally and most obviously, it also provides a way to avoid trading 1:1 cards all day with removal, because that can be exhausting.

Was this is a %$#%$#% thesis explaining my decision to cut a couple cards in favor of a couple other cards? Yes. But I do think there are some interesting political lessons to take from this and apply to other areas. Hope you got something from it if you read all the way through.

Oh yeah, also I do have a bitterthorn on the way. Paying $30nzd for it, though, ouch.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

I worry that you're not going to be nearly as "non-threatening" as you think you are. One sword on Kellan, the Fae-Blooded is already a three turn clock, and as the swords also come with protection and evasion, people are going to rightfully treat you as a threat the second you have a sword that gives protection from their color.

I know I keep comparing this to Ebondeath, Dracolich, but frequently Ebondeath, Dracolich + 1 sword is all I need to start killing people (though there's usually 2 or 3 pieces on him by the time I wrap up).
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
I worry that you're not going to be nearly as "non-threatening" as you think you are. One sword on Kellan, the Fae-Blooded is already a three turn clock, and as the swords also come with protection and evasion, people are going to rightfully treat you as a threat the second you have a sword that gives protection from their color.
Sadly, I've cut almost all of the swords. I'm down to 1, maybe 2. Obviously the swords function similarly to boots if they're of the opponent's color, except that they also grant evasion, so it's not exactly surprising that they'd elicit a reaction. That said, it's always a matter of context. If nothing else significant is going on, of course Kellan might look like the threat. But if other players are ramping up, a 3-turn clock is glacially slow, especially if you're swinging it at different people each time.

There's also even softer strats if the table is playing slowly, like using bitterthorn or komainu battle armor instead of Kellan as the equip target.
I know I keep comparing this to Ebondeath, Dracolich, but frequently Ebondeath, Dracolich + 1 sword is all I need to start killing people (though there's usually 2 or 3 pieces on him by the time I wrap up).
Worth pointing out that Ebondeath has evasion where Kellan does not. If we're just trying to rack up bitterthorn triggers or whatever, Kellan can do that will bonking into chumpers.

It's always about keeping the threat level appropriate to the table. 8 commander damage is a fair chunk but it's not difficult for there to be scarier things going on. If you've made it clear that ending someone is your primary goal, of course he's more likely to eat removal, but if you're just swinging him randomly around the table in order to get value triggers, I think it's pretty reasonable for him to live a healthy life up until he's swinging for lethal, at which point Loran's obviously becomes necessary. And if he does die, well, he's got a pretty convenient value proposition built into recasting him.

The goal is to look like a predictable, solvable threat, right up until you catch them offguard with the protection spell and kill them.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

pokken wrote:
9 months ago
I think that looks like a really good balance overall. Mostly cards I would play.

I would think about having a 1 cmc removal (Chained to the Rocks or On Thin Ice) maybe.
That's not a bad idea tbh, just in case I can't afford the extra mana for darksteel mutation. Anyway I'm not really considering aura-based removal and such as part of the equipment "package" since it's a reactive tutor instead of a proactive one. My goal with the toolbox aspect of the deck is to find a pretty minimal list of equipment (or MEL for pilots out there) such that all equipment has a reasonable case where it would be the optimal tutor target, rather than "best value equipment", "second best value equipment", "third best value equipment" where the third best basically never gets tutored.

Removal isn't really part of that list as much because I expect a lot of the deck to be removal. Running CtrR or whatever might be a middling removal spell but it's still doing what I want my draws to do. The risk of running too many equipment is that I'm drawing equipment when I need reliable answers.

Speaking of, here's my current equipment list:

Robe of Stars - as detailed above, I think this is the idea protective equipment, with more immediate protection coming from instant slots instead.

Umezawa's Jitte - the best at providing player-killing power ASAP, as well as instant-speed interaction.

Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus - the best ramp equipment, perfect T3 play and a good first target for a slower game.

Sword of Fire and Ice - the best value equipment for the early/midgame.

Shadowspear - I think it hits just the right places - it's a 1-drop which gives us a way to empty our hand T1, trample is a valuable evasive ability, lifelink can keep us in the game against aggression, and it's also a tech tutor against hexproof or indestructible problems.

Sunforger - the best value equipment for the late game.

Hexplate Wallbreaker - the best late-game player killer, and the only equipment that allows multiple player kills in a single turn, plus an alternative equippable body. - sunforger could potentially fill this slot, but I think the only sunforgeable way to get additional combats is Final Fortune and Chance for Glory, which obviously have certain downsides.

Lion Sash - the best grave hate on an equipment, an alternative body, and a plausible way to achieve player-killing power in the late game. Could also potentially be covered by sunforger, but it's a lot more efficient in most cases and comes out a lot earlier.

Komainu Battle Armor - Another body, but at least this effect isn't replaceable with sunforger afaik. I think this could be another strong T3 play depending on the situation - backed by removal this could force another player into attacks for a long time, and stir the pot politically. I think I'll need to play with this to gauge where it's valuable enough.

That's down to 9, which is pretty close to the 8 I was aiming for. I may decide to cut wallbreaker or battle armor? Those would probably be my two most likely cuts, but maybe 9 is also okay.

Next up I want to focus on how many 1-drops are going to be in the deck. As I've mentioned, these are valuable to avoid discarding on 2. Fast ramp like Chrome Mox, and protectors like Mother of Runes and co are obvious ones, but another thing I think merits a mention is haste enablers like Bloodlust Inciter, since those can get an entire additional land off bitterthorn, plus hastify kellan plus hold equipment if necessary. Authority of the Consuls might also be a good pairing for Komainu Battle Armor, makes it nearly impossible to stop the goading cascade. Anyway, I'll be focusing on that next.

I think the deck should hopefully look something like this:

Commander (1)
Equipment (9)
Support 1-drops (10)
Removal (18)
Stack interaction (10) (mostly protective, and which counterspells are available)
Wipes (6)
Ramp (6) (fast mana only)
Land (40)
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

I would 1000% run Tithe and Faithless Looting in this deck (although the former doesn't help with your potential discarding issue).

Some 1 drops I think are probably really good:
No real shockers there I guess.

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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

Isn't Alseid of Life's Bounty pretty low on the list of one drops that provide protection?

Mother of Runes
Giver of Runes
Skrelv, Defector Mite
Benevolent Bodyguard
Selfless Savior

Idk, I don't like the idea of having to hold up mana for my one drop.

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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
Isn't Alseid of Life's Bounty pretty low on the list of one drops that provide protection?

Mother of Runes
Giver of Runes
Skrelv, Defector Mite
Benevolent Bodyguard
Selfless Savior

Idk, I don't like the idea of having to hold up mana for my one drop.

Alseid of Life's Bounty can be activated right now without tapping. it's significantly better as a topdeck. And it protects enchantments.

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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

pokken wrote:
9 months ago
Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
Isn't Alseid of Life's Bounty pretty low on the list of one drops that provide protection?

Mother of Runes
Giver of Runes
Skrelv, Defector Mite
Benevolent Bodyguard
Selfless Savior

Idk, I don't like the idea of having to hold up mana for my one drop.

Alseid of Life's Bounty can be activated right now without tapping. it's significantly better as a topdeck. And it protects enchantments.
Benevolent Bodyguard and Selfless Savior also don't require tapping AND don't require mana.


I guess it depends on how many enchantments the list is running, and how important they are, but I find it hard to believe Alseid of Life's Bounty is going to be better than Benevolent Bodyguard.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

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