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FoxOfWar
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Post by FoxOfWar » 2 years ago

I am certainly a bit tempted to build Ayara, First of Lochtwain... just build the spammiest deck I can. "If you let me keep her and go off, it's your fault." My only concern here is that I'd likely repeat a lot of cards from my... other really creature-spammy black decks - namely Athreos, Chainer and Karador. Always an awkward feeling.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

3drinks wrote:
2 years ago
This sounds like a playgroup issue rather than a gameplay one. A very anti social move where everyone always focus fires on the same guy every game. When that's happened to me, randoms or otherwise, it's typically meant my presence isn't wanted and they're trying to get rid of me without actually saying it.
I generally agree with this analysis, but I think it can be tricky/impossible to figure out what's going on in these sorts of circumstances because there's so much nuance that is hard to communicate over the internet, but might be very obvious witnessing things in person. I've seen people try to use politics locally in ways that made me cringe but I could tell THEY thought were reasonable, and that if they described what they were doing on the internet they'd probably say they were getting unfairly ganged up on or something similar. Or it could be that you're playing with a bunch of salty bastards. Really hard to tell without multiple accounts or being an eyewitness.

[mention]ISBPathfinder[/mention]
One thing you could try is playing precons or borrowing decks. That eliminates the "expensive cards" angle as the possible motivation, presumably. You could also try playing decks bad enough that you lose a bunch of games without even coming close, to try to take off the stigma of being the guy that wins (precons also might suffice for this although you might go even weaker). If neither of those things solve the problem then...idk...maybe try playing with other people?
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Post by rogerandover » 2 years ago

I'm pretty optimistic for Once and Future, in mono green at least. Return two cards at instant speed, seems strong.

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

Ah, ye olde "my group focuses me first" scenario. Been there, done that, it was a lengthy process to disentangle myself from it.

I feel the dynamic originated within the group when I was actively slinging my Patron of the Orochi deck. It was me, a guy on well built aggro (Aurelia, the Warleader/Xenagos, God of Revels), and two guys on relative chaff in comparison. The game boiled down to a battle between me and aggro head, if Patron got there the game was over, if he managed to take me out then the chaff would have had a window to maybe build something up and steal it from him. It was an okay and fitting gameplay model for that scenario, but "always focus Rumpy" kind of sank into the soil. I also helped it along by having a track record of being a consistent pilot and aiming for well-oiled builds, resulting in disproportionate win rates. Couple that with a rampant salinity problem and me complaining about being focused was pretty much part of the group dynamic.

However, at some point I noticed the alarming fraction of lists that I built dying due to group disapproval, and started actively trying to self-police. I was also working on the salinity for years at that point, and I felt I was in a more objective headspace to assess the group dynamic. Calm assessment still revealed that I'd take a nontrivial amount of flak by default. That's when a particularly memorable game happened - I distinctly remember recasting Daxos the Returned for thirteen mana, having played a couple low-impact utility enchantments and sitting on like three experience counters, with no big mana available, and having yet another piece of interaction immediately aimed at him. Meanwhile, the dude piloting Marchesa, the Black Rose was drawing five cards per turn cycle, completely unimpeded, completely ignored, and won the game in short order. At that point something snapped in me and I made a stink about the absurdity of the situation. The guy who offed Daxos the final time grumbled something about Marchesa being uninteractable, but I could tell it didn't fall on deaf ears.

Since then I've been actively working with the group when developing new decks, ensuring the things I do are okay with them. It took a few tries to get this right, but Ghired, Conclave Exile worked out. Importantly, I'm no longer public enemy number one regardless of what I field. Sure, if I bust out Patron for old times' sake, or reach for the mildly meta inappropriate yet passionately adored by yours truly Feather, the Redeemed, I'm going to get focused. But that's okay, that's deserved and expected on power reasons. I can have a good game without unjust dumpstering with Daxos or Ghired, or a deck swaparoo. It took mindfulness and communication from both sides, but it worked out. I still aim for tuned-up lists, but I self-police by ensuring the deck's going to be meta appropriate before I do so.

Crap, that got wordy. TL;DR: it's solvable, but will take plenty of open communication and mindfulness from both sides.
 
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Taleran
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Post by Taleran » 2 years ago

Huh that Legendary Wizard doesn't work with the current rules, I am curious to see how they change them to accommodate him and cards moving forward.

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lyonhaert
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Post by lyonhaert » 2 years ago

Taleran wrote:
2 years ago
Huh that Legendary Wizard doesn't work with the current rules, I am curious to see how they change them to accommodate him and cards moving forward.
There are two legendary wizards so far in the set, but I figure you mean Gadwick, the Wizened? It works. X will be separate from any additional commander tax is all.

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Taleran
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Post by Taleran » 2 years ago

lyonhaert wrote:
2 years ago
Taleran wrote:
2 years ago
Huh that Legendary Wizard doesn't work with the current rules, I am curious to see how they change them to accommodate him and cards moving forward.
There are two legendary wizards so far in the set, but I figure you mean Gadwick, the Wizened? It works. X will be separate from any additional commander tax is all.
No that isn't what I mean.

His ability is not a Hydra ability that is "Enters With X" it is an ETB and X = 0 currently in the magic rules in any zone except when a spell is on the stack.

No matter how much mana you dump into him you will draw Zero cards.

oh just found this so yeah the rules are getting updated/changed with this

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

Mind spring looks pretty awful nowadays by comparison when one more U gets you a 3/3 body too.
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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
3drinks wrote:
2 years ago
This sounds like a playgroup issue rather than a gameplay one. A very anti social move where everyone always focus fires on the same guy every game. When that's happened to me, randoms or otherwise, it's typically meant my presence isn't wanted and they're trying to get rid of me without actually saying it.
I generally agree with this analysis, but I think it can be tricky/impossible to figure out what's going on in these sorts of circumstances because there's so much nuance that is hard to communicate over the internet, but might be very obvious witnessing things in person. I've seen people try to use politics locally in ways that made me cringe but I could tell THEY thought were reasonable, and that if they described what they were doing on the internet they'd probably say they were getting unfairly ganged up on or something similar. Or it could be that you're playing with a bunch of salty bastards. Really hard to tell without multiple accounts or being an eyewitness.

ISBPathfinder
One thing you could try is playing precons or borrowing decks. That eliminates the "expensive cards" angle as the possible motivation, presumably. You could also try playing decks bad enough that you lose a bunch of games without even coming close, to try to take off the stigma of being the guy that wins (precons also might suffice for this although you might go even weaker). If neither of those things solve the problem then...idk...maybe try playing with other people?
Its more that people get intimidated when you play things like tabernacle, moat, bazaar. I actually play a lot of mono white and mono red non combo decks. I have a lot of cards that I refuse to play entirely but I do have a vast collection and a lot of experience deckbuilding. I wouldn't say I win every game but its not uncommon for me to win half to all of the games in a night. I have 2-3 copies of most abu duels and 4-10 copies of every fetchland and commander is primarily where I play my collection.

I do fairly often build decks that I know aren't going to be great (like Squee, the Immortal) because its bad ass when you do win with them.
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folding_music
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Post by folding_music » 2 years ago

this set is really frustrating me so far. The Food idea rules and the adventure mechanic is novel but I just can't sustain interest in a plane about Human Knights, sorta my least favourite archetype in fantasy. I'm not the world's most enthusiastic high-fantasy fan, I like my settings and stories more complicated than just stuff about honour and chivalry; hopefully there's intrigue and mystery hidden within Eldraine somehow. I'm not bothered about perceived high/low set power because I love OP stuff like Mirrodin and Shadowmoor just as much as slow stuff like Ice Age and Kamigawa. most of the creatures in Eldraine so far seem to be fairly efficient even if they're not the absolute best in their field, anyway.

fave card so far is definitely the spell that gives -3/-3 to target tribe u.e.o.t. and you know what I'll be naming =P

however, I will say that the art looks beautiful and the new card frames are tempting - it's not all bad, just irritating when you know a whole set won't suit you at all!

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75chan
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Post by 75chan » 2 years ago

folding_music wrote:
2 years ago
this set is really frustrating me so far. The Food idea rules and the adventure mechanic is novel but I just can't sustain interest in a plane about Human Knights, sorta my least favourite archetype in fantasy. I'm not the world's most enthusiastic high-fantasy fan, I like my settings and stories more complicated than just stuff about honour and chivalry; hopefully there's intrigue and mystery hidden within Eldraine somehow. I'm not bothered about perceived high/low set power because I love OP stuff like Mirrodin and Shadowmoor just as much as slow stuff like Ice Age and Kamigawa. most of the creatures in Eldraine so far seem to be fairly efficient even if they're not the absolute best in their field, anyway.

fave card so far is definitely the spell that gives -3/-3 to target tribe u.e.o.t. and you know what I'll be naming =P

however, I will say that the art looks beautiful and the new card frames are tempting - it's not all bad, just irritating when you know a whole set won't suit you at all!
I'm digging the aesthetic and theme, but I wish the powerlevel was higher so I'd get to run more cards from it :p I definitely don't want eldrazi to come in and ruin the flavor again...

Wew, Deafening Silence is good. I'm leaning on not running it myself, but it's definitely a nice option to have.

@3drinks Nice catch on that rule change, I missed it as my brain autocorrected him into a hydra. It'll be interesting to see how they change it ^^
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SocorroTortoise
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 2 years ago

It's worth keeping in mind that most EDH cards in a typical set show up at higher rarities and the spoilers for this set have included a lot of the common and uncommon stuff. We still have over half the set to go.
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

I mentally folded in Gadwick, the Wizened with Maga, Traitor to Mortals and assumed he would work in the current rules. Interesting to hear about the change. I'm not sure whether I would play him over Blue Sun's Zenith or Stroke of Genius, since 'hold open mana for countermagic, then draw a bunch of cards if nothing is worth countering' is my most common play pattern for them. A 3/3 that taps stuff occasionally is... fine, I guess? If he were an X/X like Maga, I could at least justify him as a giant beater. Does seem like a decent commander, at least - run with lots of ramp, and you won't need to have any other card draw in the deck.

Fervent Champion is sweet for an equipment deck - Kazuul's Toll Collector has always seemed a bit underwhelming, but first strike and haste are nice keywords to have.

Into the Story seems worth consideration - four mana for four cards, assuming your opponents have stocked graveyards. Seems fantastic in a mill deck, or if you expect the game to go longer. Does compete with the easier-to-use Fact or Fiction though.

Epic Downfall is cheap exile in black. Relevant if you find yourself really wanting a way to deal with Blightsteel Colossus or other large, indestructible creatures.

Deafening Silence is a potent (and cheap!) hate piece. I've tested out Rule of Law in Teysa before to hate on Storm / noncreature-based decks (since white can't really interact on the stack), but the symmetry (plus my own lack of instants) made it awkward. Only hitting noncreature spells makes this really attractive - it hates on 'unfair' decks, while letting my own 'fair' deck be unaffected. I'm always a fan of throwing 'symmetric-but-not-actually' hate cards in my decks, so planning to give it a shot.

(also, Deafening Silence + Possibility Storm seems glorious, for some definition of that word)

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Post by UnfulfilledDesires » 2 years ago

Yeah, I love Deafening Silence & can't wait to run it. I'll probably put it in the Najeela, the Blade-Blossom Enchantress deck I'm working on. Along with Mana Maze, it strikes me as the Arcane Laboratory effect that hurts me the least. It'll stop chaining together noncreature enchantments & my Jeskai Ascendancy combo lines, but that's okay. It's definitely going in my Asmira, Holy Avenger deck as well as the Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero list I'm building.

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

the one spoiler i'm waiting for is the Excalibur expy. We were talking about this yesterday in my group and wondering if it would on par with sword of x and yr or not.
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Post by BOVINE » 2 years ago

Questing Beast + Constant Mists is a fun blowout combo. Really hard to stop Mists outside a counterspell. Even then, bringing back a card is easy for green. Throw in Titania, Protector of Argoth and you've got yourself a little action
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 2 years ago

BOVINE wrote:
2 years ago
Questing Beast + Constant Mists is a fun blowout combo. Really hard to stop Mists outside a counterspell. Even then, bringing back a card is easy for green. Throw in Titania, Protector of Argoth and you've got yourself a little action
...Well, thank you much for that bit of tech. Something to consider...
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
the one spoiler i'm waiting for is the Excalibur expy. We were talking about this yesterday in my group and wondering if it would on par with sword of x and yr or not.
Excalibur is Embercleave. Doesn't provide protection or card advantage like the Swords of X & Y (and it's a colored artifact), so it likely won't fit in as many decks as them. However, in terms of sheer 'surprise: you're dead' value, it ranks pretty highly - double strike + trample + flash represents a lot of burst damage.

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
the one spoiler i'm waiting for is the Excalibur expy. We were talking about this yesterday in my group and wondering if it would on par with sword of x and yr or not.
Excalibur is Embercleave. Doesn't provide protection or card advantage like the Swords of X & Y (and it's a colored artifact), so it likely won't fit in as many decks as them. However, in terms of sheer 'surprise: you're dead' value, it ranks pretty highly - double strike + trample + flash represents a lot of burst damage.
In that case, I'm not sure if I want to take anything out of my voltron build for it.
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
I mentally folded in Gadwick, the Wizened with Maga, Traitor to Mortals and assumed he would work in the current rules. Interesting to hear about the change.
What change are you referring to?
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Post by RedCheese » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
the one spoiler i'm waiting for is the Excalibur expy. We were talking about this yesterday in my group and wondering if it would on par with sword of x and yr or not.
Excalibur is Embercleave. Doesn't provide protection or card advantage like the Swords of X & Y (and it's a colored artifact), so it likely won't fit in as many decks as them. However, in terms of sheer 'surprise: you're dead' value, it ranks pretty highly - double strike + trample + flash represents a lot of burst damage.
Was in confirmed that Embercleave is Excalibur?

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Post by Rorseph » 2 years ago

RedCheese wrote:
2 years ago
Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
the one spoiler i'm waiting for is the Excalibur expy. We were talking about this yesterday in my group and wondering if it would on par with sword of x and yr or not.
Excalibur is Embercleave. Doesn't provide protection or card advantage like the Swords of X & Y (and it's a colored artifact), so it likely won't fit in as many decks as them. However, in terms of sheer 'surprise: you're dead' value, it ranks pretty highly - double strike + trample + flash represents a lot of burst damage.
Was in confirmed that Embercleave is Excalibur?
Yes. From Maro's lips to your ears.
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Post by RedCheese » 2 years ago

Rorseph wrote:
2 years ago
RedCheese wrote:
2 years ago
Mookie wrote:
2 years ago


Excalibur is Embercleave. Doesn't provide protection or card advantage like the Swords of X & Y (and it's a colored artifact), so it likely won't fit in as many decks as them. However, in terms of sheer 'surprise: you're dead' value, it ranks pretty highly - double strike + trample + flash represents a lot of burst damage.
Was in confirmed that Embercleave is Excalibur?
Yes. From Maro's lips to your ears.
Well, thats disapointing...

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

RedCheese wrote:
2 years ago
Rorseph wrote:
2 years ago
RedCheese wrote:
2 years ago

Was in confirmed that Embercleave is Excalibur?
Yes. From Maro's lips to your ears.
Well, thats disapointing...
very
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 2 years ago

Dance of the Manse is a nice effect. I do wish they'd stop printing the "payoff" of animating all of your artifacts/enchantments. One of the strengths of enchantments is that they're more difficult to remove than creatures, so opening them up to twice the removal is almost never something I want to do, especially in this format where 6 4/4 creatures isn't enough to end a game most of the time.
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