Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[yeti1069]

I don't know why you all spend so much time and effort arguing with Dirk over something as subjective as his personal rankings of cards, especially when it's obvious that you're evaluating them from significantly differing viewpoints. I generally wouldn't care, as I've seen little point in the evaluations, except that it eats up pages and pages of threads that might otherwise have useful or interesting discussion.

I agree except that I don't think we're "wasting internet pages" or whatever. I think the bigger threat to discussion is that people stop talking and then get bored and leave. Even stupid arguments keep the blood pumping around here.

There's some value in the discussion at the start, of getting differing viewpoints, but it's now just a strident "why don't you feel this card warrants that grade, and under these conditions?" It's neither productive, nor interesting.

[tstorm823]

It's neither productive, nor interesting.

I am also neither productive nor interesting!

[TheAmericanSpirit]

There's some value in the discussion at the start, of getting differing viewpoints, but it's now just a strident "why don't you feel this card warrants that grade, and under these conditions?" It's neither productive, nor interesting.

We all derive amusement from this place in different ways. Some of us like battling Dirk over nonsense. Live and let live.

[DirkGently]

I am also neither productive nor interesting!

This feels like it could be an "I am Spartacus" moment xD

[duducrash]

As long as there are actual arguments being made and not just devils advocates and all parties have an open mind , meaning that if good arguments are presented they would change their position, its a net positive

[tstorm823]

This feels like it could be an "I am Spartacus" moment xD

I mean, it is a forum of Magic players. Lol

[Serenade]

Anyway, I've only considered cards for two decks so far. There's still a lot to dig into this set. Like, where am I going to put Forensic Gadgeteer?

Pia Nalaar, Consul of Revival
Delney, Streetwise Lookout - We all will be sick of this card very soon.
Krenko's Buzzcrusher - There are not that many big thopters and even fewer good ones. I need to dig up my Flagstones of Trokair, I guess.
Headliner Scarlet - Alpha strike one person then have an Impulse Arena (on-a-stick, unfortunately, so subject to creature wipes) seems worth testing. Maybe I see what else plays well with the white return-to-hand cards to get more uses out of her.
Expedited Inheritance - As an aggro deck in red with this theme, I need to try it. I am not one to abuse it, though, so it might not be in for long if my opponents get more out of it than me.

Sythis, Harvest's Hand
Case of the Locked Hothouse - It was fun to read everything you can cast once it is Solved.
On the Trail - Burgeoning does this better, but at least OTT does not rely on opponent actions and lets me potentially use what I just drew?
Undergrowth Recon - If I make a hardcore ramp version, I'll try this, but like everyone else has noted, it'll probably be too slow.
Buried in the Garden - The convenience of doing two okay things on one card is nice. I wonder how often I can bait someone into killing this land and then dropping Serra's Sanctum once their removal is gone.

[TheGildedGoose]

Live and let live.

This goes both ways. I respect their freedom to argue about anything under the sun but please respect our desire to not have pages-long arguments about tangentially related topics crowding up threads. There's a containment thread and it should be used by all parties after like two back-and-forths.

I cannot stress this enough: those posts actively make me want to visit this place less. They do not spark joy. Making them unavoidable because they clog up threads I normally enjoy isn't great.

EDIT: I should probably say something on-topic.

I'm a little disappointed with the precon face commanders but the decks themselves look wild. I would never play a 3 color precon because of the weak mana bases but good lord they're really cooking with gas lately.

My favorite card in the set is probably Case of the Locked Hothouse.Slogurk, the Overslime has become my signature deck as of late and it's a slam dunk there.

[Lifeless]

My favorite card in the set is probably Case of the Locked Hothouse.Slogurk, the Overslime has become my signature deck as of late and it's a slam dunk there.

I see you fellow Slojerk enjoyer. Every once in a while, probably twice a year or less, I see a card that necessitates me making an online order for singles and Case is most certainly one of those cards.

[DirkGently]

I do really like the design space of cases. minigames are great. Though Case of the Ransacked Lab feels pushed in the bad way to me. Basically anything that makes storm happy makes me unhappy.

[RxPhantom]

These new Secret Lairs suck. Like, they suck so hard they blow. None of the art styles speak to me, and none of the cards are all that desirable. I'm mad that I missed the Cats and Dogs deck, but they can have these.

[yeti1069]

Sythis, Harvest's Hand
Case of the Locked Hothouse - It was fun to read everything you can cast once it is Solved.
On the Trail - Burgeoning does this better, but at least OTT does not rely on opponent actions and lets me potentially use what I just drew?
Undergrowth Recon - If I make a hardcore ramp version, I'll try this, but like everyone else has noted, it'll probably be too slow.
Buried in the Garden - The convenience of doing two okay things on one card is nice. I wonder how often I can bait someone into killing this land and then dropping Serra's Sanctum once their removal is gone.

I've been resisting changing Tuvasa the Sunlit to Sythis, even though I'm really not making the best use of either the added identity, nor the desire to cast enchantments on other players' turns to get the most mileage out of it, but some of these look great! Making cuts is the tough part.

Case of the Locked Hothouse is absurd value, even if it does require some waiting to get online, but as a deck that's often looking to play a longish game, it looks solid.
I think On the Trail is #3 in this slot (or even further back), behind Exploration, then Burgeoning.
Buried in the Garden I think is a little expensive for either effect--normally 3 and 2 mana for the respective triggers--but combined I think it's pretty solid. Certainly, if you can cast this with a land open to enchant and then tap for 2, the high cost will matter a bit less. For example, if you had 5 lands, you could cast Oblivion Ring + a 2 drop, or you can cast this + a 2 drop.

Live and let live.

This goes both ways. I respect their freedom to argue about anything under the sun but please respect our desire to not have pages-long arguments about tangentially related topics crowding up threads. There's a containment thread and it should be used by all parties after like two back-and-forths.

I cannot stress this enough: those posts actively make me want to visit this place less. They do not spark joy. Making them unavoidable because they clog up threads I normally enjoy isn't great.

EDIT: I should probably say something on-topic.

I'm a little disappointed with the precon face commanders but the decks themselves look wild. I would never play a 3 color precon because of the weak mana bases but good lord they're really cooking with gas lately.

My favorite card in the set is probably Case of the Locked Hothouse.Slogurk, the Overslime has become my signature deck as of late and it's a slam dunk there.

That was kind of the point I'd been making--it didn't feel like anything new was being said, and it just clogged up a page for other stuff. I looked at the Thunderdome continuation of the conversation, had a moment where I felt like I wanted to chime in, but then realized it wouldn't make a difference, and saved myself the time.

As for the commander decks, maybe it's because I have so many decks already (something like 25), or that I'd built a bunch semi-recently (5 from LotR, and Henzie shortly before that), or that I've been playing less Magic lately due to a few factors that have nothing to do with what I WANT to be doing, but I haven't found myself excited to buy precons for the last few sets. Here, I love morph, but I'm pretty committed to Kadena, and am not looking to build the flipside version that's highly aggressive. I already have a politics/goad deck in Queen Marchesa, and have a few (/+) decks, some of which lean into reanimation...and the clue deck looks kind of dumb.

There are plenty of singles I want from the decks, but I doubt I'll buy any of them. Certainly none of the commanders feel like they're pushing me to build them, although, I felt the same way about Sefris and Prosper when I first looked at them. Then I played them and just HAD to build out the decks.

Part of the lack of desire to buy the precons likely also stems from being an entrenched, long-time Magic player, so the reprints are largely meaningless to me.

[duducrash]

Case of the Locked Hothouse is absurd value, even if it does require some waiting to get online, but as a deck that's often looking to play a longish game, it looks solid.

Even though it requires 7 mana to solve, you still get the extra land drop, right? it is something and facilitates the solving of the case.

I'm preparing some big changes in my karador list, and I think I'll include case, but im struggling for cuts

[Mookie]

Got my first game in with Dopplegang. My opponents let me untap with 13 lands, Mana Reflection, and Greenwarden of Murasa in play, so it trivially went infinite. That's obviously a highroll, but even at X=3 or so it still seems pretty crazy. It does need a lot of mana, but I expect to see it in a lot of UGx decks - at the very least, I think it's a big upgrade over Villainous Wealth.

[duducrash]

Got my first game in with Dopplegang. My opponents let me untap with 13 lands, Mana Reflection, and Greenwarden of Murasa in play, so it trivially went infinite. That's obviously a highroll, but even at X=3 or so it still seems pretty crazy. It does need a lot of mana, but I expect to see it in a lot of UGx decks - at the very least, I think it's a big upgrade over Villainous Wealth.

while it does seem powerfull and I understand that if you are casting this spell with x=7 you probably should win, I can't think it will be a fun play pattern for you to have over and over and over, while Villainous Wealth is a fun card to resolve often.

How did you feel playing it?

[RxPhantom]

I'd rather have Villainous Wealth, I think.

[Mookie]

Got my first game in with Dopplegang. My opponents let me untap with 13 lands, Mana Reflection, and Greenwarden of Murasa in play, so it trivially went infinite. That's obviously a highroll, but even at X=3 or so it still seems pretty crazy. It does need a lot of mana, but I expect to see it in a lot of UGx decks - at the very least, I think it's a big upgrade over Villainous Wealth.

while it does seem powerfull and I understand that if you are casting this spell with x=7 you probably should win, I can't think it will be a fun play pattern for you to have over and over and over, while Villainous Wealth is a fun card to resolve often.

How did you feel playing it?

I did the thing, and then cut it from the deck. I've deliberately been avoiding combos in Tasigur, and I think it will end up being a bit too consistent. I could cut Greenwarden and Eternal Witness instead if I wanted to keep it in, since they're my only easy ways to loop it. Hmmm...

I'll note that I cut Villainous Wealth from my deck a while ago - I was disappointed by it pretty much every time I cast it.

[Dunadain]

good grief, the alternate art for Simic Kellan is atrocious.



Why does he look so dopey? I'm not sure what expression his face is supposed to be making but it looks off.

I do like his clothes and the background, even his hair, but his hands and face are much more detailed and look like they were photo-shopped in by someone else.

Not that it really matters to me, I usually like to get the basic version of cards anyways.

[Guardman]

good grief, the alternate art for Simic Kellan is atrocious.



Why does he look so dopey? I'm not sure what expression his face is supposed to be making but it looks off.

I do like his clothes and the background, even his hair, but his hands and face are much more detailed and look like they were photo-shopped in by someone else.

Not that it really matters to me, I usually like to get the basic version of cards anyways.

At least he is the proper age in the art. Lost Caverns of Ixalan Kellan looks about 30 to 35.

[duducrash]

I kinda like it. Looks like the ikoria comic book adjacent carda

[Serenade]

I don't like copy tokens. So much to track already.

[DirkGently]

Kellan is clearly a 1-hit-wonder. His first album was a masterpiece and subsequent releases have been weak sauce. The art being pretty jank is just the icing on top.

That said I did win some games off Inquisitive Prodigy at the prerelease. Dude does know how to blow up a Lead Pipe.

[Mookie]

Kellan, Inquisitive Prodigy seems like a fine sidegrade to me - Tail the Suspect is a bit of a downgrade from Explore / Growth Spiral, but not by a huge margin. Meanwhile, you get a 3/4 flyer later on that can also provide a bit of disruption (or just crack your clue for free). I don't necessarily think ug decks need more value, and I wouldn't be excited by him in the command zone, but seems reasonable in the 99.

[Dunadain]

I'm really hoping his dimir one turns out nice (I think that one's next, right?)

I love the idea of a commander with an adventure, but all of the legendary adventures so far haven't resonated with me.

Dimir and azorius are probably the colors that would enjoy an adventure commander the most anyways.

[duducrash]

I love the idea of a commander with an adventure, but all of the legendary adventures so far haven't resonated with me.

Your simic Kellan did sound like a lot of fun as a concept TBH. I have been watching the videos of the youtuber you and @TheGildedGoose mentioned and while I understand the idea of the commander filling the whole that is lacking in the 99, I wonder if simic Kinnan did actually do that for you as Glissa Sunslayer did for him. How did it play out? one cast of the adventure side per game? did he offer you protection afterwards? I can't help but wonder if taking out Keruga, the Macrosage cutting down the bombs from high 40s to arround 25-30 and adding more ramp and interaction wouldn't make the deck flow better, you want to play a long game but it lacks attrition and it could even be added on theme maybe Ezuri's Predation Thorn Mammoth and Titan of Industry would be on plan and still provide you the chance to act on board.

To act on that philosophy of the Glissa Sunslayer what is Kellan giving you, that is allowing you to lack on the 99? and how well and consistently he is doing so?