[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - The SHM Lieges

[Toshi]

To keep it short: It's a mistake that it is the poster child of the format - and the format would've been of without it legal and in every damn precon.

There's a gentleman's agreement in my group of friends as not to play it below certain power levels. We all got fed up by Sol Ring starts in what was supposed to be recreational timmy stuff.

Once the power level is high enough it is fair game and one among a load of culprits, but the vast majority of pods would be better of without it.

[Dunadain]

A staple for good reason, I'm on the ban it bandwagon. But does anybody believe there's any fruitful discussion left to be had on this particular topic?

👎👎

[Mookie]

Sol Ring is the iconic EDH card. I think the format would be better without it (and other fast mana rocks) - playing them early tends to result in uninteresting, snowball-y games. I do at least appreciate that it is widely available, unlike Mana Crypt. If someone isn't running it in their decks, it is likely a deliberate exclusion and not an availability issue. There are also some merits to having cards that can speed up the format, since games can take a while... but on the other hand, with all the power creep we've seen over the years and the general speeding up of the format, I wouldn't mind slowing things down a little.

...I don't expect the RC to touch it at this point, since doing so would have pretty large implications for the format as a whole. It's a bit like Brainstorm or fetchlands - clearly too strong, but also something that defines the format (edit clarification: in Legacy / Modern). I don't think it's quite as format-warping though, so removing it would likely be less disruptive. Most people could probably just swap it for Mind Stone or another two-mana rock.

[tstorm823]

Ban it

[Hermes_]

Didn't someone do the math on how often a t1 ring actually happens? I haven't seen one in a few years myself.

[pokken]

only makes colorless mana

[Mookie]

Didn't someone do the math on how often a t1 ring actually happens? I haven't seen one in a few years myself.

EDHREC says it's in 84% of decks, which converts into about a 25% chance of it being in at least one player's opening hand (or first card drawn). I'll note that if Mana Crypt were also played at that rate, we would expect to see fast mana T1 in about 43% of games. It's possible that people are sandbagging it or unable to play it due to a tapped land, but it is pretty common.

[NZB2323]

I missed a couple, and what else can we really say about Sol Ring?

Harnessed Snubhorn would be a lot better for Ghen, Arcanum Weaver if it were an enchantment creature, but even then it's redundant with the commander and doesn't have evasion.

Archfiend of Depravity I've always found annoying to play against but maybe that's because I've faced it with Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Cleric tribal, which are go wide strategies. It's especially annoying when you kill it and then they reanimate it.

[Guardman]

So I am going to start this by saying I think having the core of Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, Command Tower is a good thing. It provides a strong mana core for almost every deck while only negating a few deck slots. And while Sol Ring starts are powerful, I rarely see them win the game as the person is quickly held in check.

[pokken]

Didn't someone do the math on how often a t1 ring actually happens? I haven't seen one in a few years myself.

EDHREC says it's in 84% of decks, which converts into about a 25% chance of it being in at least one player's opening hand (or first card drawn). I'll note that if Mana Crypt were also played at that rate, we would expect to see fast mana T1 in about 43% of games. It's possible that people are sandbagging it or unable to play it due to a tapped land, but it is pretty common.

You're neglecting mulligans I think

[Mookie]

Didn't someone do the math on how often a t1 ring actually happens? I haven't seen one in a few years myself.

EDHREC says it's in 84% of decks, which converts into about a 25% chance of it being in at least one player's opening hand (or first card drawn). I'll note that if Mana Crypt were also played at that rate, we would expect to see fast mana T1 in about 43% of games. It's possible that people are sandbagging it or unable to play it due to a tapped land, but it is pretty common.

You're neglecting mulligans I think

This is assuming no mulligans, yes. That's not really something that is feasible to calculate, so I suppose you can take those numbers as a lower bound.

[DirkGently]

It's a bit like Brainstorm or fetchlands - clearly too strong, but also something that defines the format.

Those things aren't remotely comparable. Fetches are the best fixing lands in the format (outside of Command Tower) and have a few potentially significant side effects (recursion, gy matters, shuffling on demand, hitting basics/typed lands), but realistically most decks could swap to the next best fixing land and be basically fine. To the extent that they have an outsized impact on the format, it's because there's 11 of them and multicolor decks can run at least 8 - not because any single 1 of them is a massive outlier. There's a reason sol ring is banned everywhere and fetch lands aren't (after checking - apparently they are banned in some fake formats like explorer and historic, but they're definitely not restricted in vintage like sol ring is).

I've never seen a game where I felt it was ruined because of a fetch or brainstorm. Sol ring, though, yeah, for sure.

Most people could probably just swap it for Mind Stone or another two-mana rock.

Basically every deck wants a sol ring. It doesn't imply anything about what that deck wants to do, so I wouldn't assume any particular card would be the natural replacement.

Worth remembering that sol ring does also have an impact on the power of other cards. Trinket Mage for example becomes a lot less played, I'd bet. And Demonic Tutor being an untapped Worn Powerstone isn't a bad mode for the card. Not saying this is a bad thing, just worth noting that it's not necessarily a trivial removal from decks. I know my Kaervek deck would be significantly impacted since sol ring and mana crypt are frequent tutor targets.

Overall I think I'd prefer it was banned, but I doubt it'll happen. I don't think it's too crazy in a well-balanced, medium-powered game, but if the person with the strongest deck (cough Jon cough) starts with it (every %$#% game, somehow), it can really exacerbate power differences.

[pokken]

This is assuming no mulligans, yes. That's not really something that is feasible to calculate, so I suppose you can take those numbers as a lower bound.

At a high level I'd assume it's closer to 50%.. Because:
1) people are vastly less likely to mulligan hands with sol rings
2) people are vastly more likely to mulligan a hand without a sol ring

Odds of finding a sol ring in your opener by mulliganning down to 6 are naively around 22.5%, or 15.5% with a single mulligan. Some kinda assumption that half of the players will take a freebie I think leads to around 12% per player.

Anecdotally I feel like I see a sol ring opener in about half my games.

[3drinks]

Monday, April 22 2024; Wort, the Raidmother

Initially, the first card I got was goblin mutant|phj specifically this print that I didn't even know existed. That goofy art made me laugh extra hard with it being in a foreign language. But I didn't go with it because, well, not a lot of reason to talk about gobbo mutant. Just wanted to share this ridiculously obscure set; goes to show even as enfranchised players as me are still finding new stuff even three decades later.

[pokken]

I had a wort deck for a while back in the day. The issue I always had with it was the mana cost made it really hard to get her out and then get to untap. So you had to ramp to like 8-10 to have any payoff in my meta which basically spammed sweepers. Only real reliable wins were storm or combos and so kinda boring.

[Dunadain]

I like the concept, but everything about her is so clunky. expensive, needs additional creatures, terrible stats.

Gruul is kind of a terrible color for spell copying, but at least you don't have to worry about time magic if you see someone else pull this out.

👎

[3drinks]

Ban it

This. I'm of the camp to "ban nonland permanents that generate more mana than their mv in a trivial way".

[Mookie]

I've seen a few Wort, the Raidmother decks over the years. I think she's a cool card - Gruul is usually pretty creature-focused, and Wort is one of the few spellslinger payoffs in that color pair. Copying Rampant Growths and other ramp spells, and eventually copying a Comet Storm to win is pretty good. You do need to have a bunch of creatures to do the conspiring though, which makes her a bit more complicated to build (although token-producing spells certainly help).

Playing against Wort tends to be interesting - I feel like every Wort deck I've seen has taken a different direction, from copying Warp World to copying Goblin Game. I haven't seen her around recently though - six mana is a lot these days, even if you are ramping a lot. I suspect something like Kalamax, the Stormsire is better if you want to do spell copying with rg.

[yeti1069]

I feel like Wort is one of those commanders that you want to build around, but it coming down so late makes it difficult to do so. 6 mana for a commander is a lot already, but then also really needing additional open mana to cast something makes it very awkward. I've played against a few Wort decks, and they generally went the same way--play a bunch of ramp to try and get to Wort. Cast Wort. Ramp some more, copying the ramp. Play a big spell. Except, they often get interacted with somewhere along the way, and recasting Wort for 8 is just awful.

[3drinks]

I've seen a few Wort, the Raidmother decks over the years. I think she's a cool card - Gruul is usually pretty creature-focused, and Wort is one of the few spellslinger payoffs in that color pair. Copying Rampant Growths and other ramp spells, and eventually copying a Comet Storm to win is pretty good. You do need to have a bunch of creatures to do the conspiring though, which makes her a bit more complicated to build (although token-producing spells certainly help).

Playing against Wort tends to be interesting - I feel like every Wort deck I've seen has taken a different direction, from copying Warp World to copying Goblin Game. I haven't seen her around recently though - six mana is a lot these days, even if you are ramping a lot. I suspect something like Kalamax, the Stormsire is better if you want to do spell copying with rg.

Copying Dragon Fodder and Hordeling Outburst is cool but copying Goblin Offensive is, well, offensive. And you're in the colours of Parallel Lives to boot. But ultimately having a 6mv commander in this economy that doesn't win for you or provide any real intrinsic value/disincentivizes removing it means it isn't playable in this era.

[gsgfdf]

Ban it

Ban both Sol Ring and Mana Crypt. They don't add anything to the format

Monday, April 22 2024; Wort, the Raidmother

I had a Wort, the Raidmother deck that run all the good ramp spells and the best spell doublers that red provides. The deck won by generating huge amounts of mana with Rude Awakening, Mana Geyser, Early Harvest etc along with Reiterate, Bonus Round etc. It was fun when it worked but it grew stale quickly. I am in the process of rebuilding the deck using Slime Against Humanity.

[folding_music]

I love both versions of Wort and like how the Raidmother makes Thornscape Familiar its best self <3 I tried to force the game to be sorcery-only with Dosan and City of Solitude so I could just PLAY like a maniac on my turn. I also played cards as bad as Safe Haven so I could hide Wort until it was my turn again x3 slightly toxic but not really that powerful. would be better now I have access to Jeska's Will etc but that'd make the deck even more hot and cold - either largely unable to protect itself or an instant win, like if dream halls decks were R/G

[3drinks]

Tuesday, April 23rd 2024; Sovereigns of Lost Alara

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Tuesday, April 23rd 2024; Sovereigns of Lost Alara

It,s kinda expensive, but it gets value quickly and doesn't ask a whole lot for the trouble. If you're in UWX auras I think you can do a lot worse with your tutors than this.

EDIT: What bugs me is that these clowns don't fly. You're in the freaking clouds, my guys. You have 4 power and 5 whole toughness, and you can't be bothered to swat away some birds while you're up in the sky doing your Mufasa impression? Get the %$#% outta here, man. You can fly, you just don't wanna block.

[Lifeless]

Pretty good with Rafiq I hear. Being too lazy to fly would be a bigger issue to me if they ever actually attacked, but they're more of a sideline player.