Yeah, this is a reasonable take. I can also draw from my previous posts about warming up to UB a bit and all that. I guess its bittersweet for me. I'm happy that people who like Dr Who get to see the tenth doctor as a card. But my concern is, every aspect of the game seems to have become an advertisement for another game. If the newest set, spoilers starting tommorrow was an actual plain old magic set without UB JURASSIC PARK I might be a little less disappointed.Hawk wrote: ↑7 months agoI'm less surprised. Still surprised, mind - this is a huge franchise, possibly the largest WotC has brought in (it'll be close with LotR), and there's very few I'd put higher (probably Star Wars?). But Magic is so fundamentally different than Marvel Snap that I think the world can contain both, and Lorcana (a game I have been following despite being utterly unable to purchase any product) has been very up-front that their initial 5-year plan is strictly the Animated Canon, so by the time they need to break the glass and put Iron Man in that game, this crossover will be ancient history. I'm more surprised because I didn't honestly think Magic had the cachet or respect to get Marvel's attention for a partnership like this.Venedrex wrote: ↑7 months agoI gotta say, this caught me off guard.
I knew MTG was gunning for a super hero UB, but I thought Marvel Snap existing plus Disney having Lorcana would have prevented this collaboration. I was sure that DC was going to be the superhero UB of choice because of those reasons.
Guess Wotc pulled out a graph with MONEY GO BRRR arrow to the moon to convince Disney.
I suspect Maro being a Marvel fan may have helped grease the skids as well.
Oh and at the risk of being rude, this is what we warning about when the whole UB thing started. I like Marvel. A lot. But this is a prime example of how MTG is going downhill fast. Just because I like an IP, doens't mean I can't be objective and admit that this is bad for the overall health of the game.
Anyone remember those memes about I block Gandalf with Optimus Prime and then Iron Man attacks you for six while I use my Rick to buff him?
Yeah this is all that becoming a reality. Thankfully, other tcgs exist. But hey Super Magic The Gathering Bros is still kind of fun I guess so at this point that is all the game is now. A fighting game that just uses other games characters.
I've been thinking on it a lot today and - is this a sign, of Magic going downhill? I suppose it depends on what you mean by that. If you mean this is probably a further nail in the coffin of a real, competitive, respected tournament scene - sure, yeah, probably. This set is either going to be casual/commander only, and further dilute the audience of people who want to do anything other than play kitchen table sim-city decks with Thanos and Captain Marvel, or it'll go to Modern like LotR and immediately warp and alter that format in a weird, irrevocable way in the name of profit where we all just get to deal with The Infinity Gauntlet being a 4x in most competitive decks, only countered by Iron Man. If you mean this is downhill in that WotC's days of doing the absolute bare minimum for their own lore/world-building/story-telling are coming to a middle - yeah, fair, also true. Why invest in a rich lore with well-written stories when selling cards featuring Aragorn and Captain America make the money line go up? Of course I, like you, fear the day that the suits upstairs realize that the Marvel set outsold Return to Lorwyn 20-1, and that doesn't just mean they won't approve Return to Return to Lorwyn...now they're wondering why we're doing non-UB sets at all. I asked Mark actually and he just responded that in-universe Magic is safe which is sweet - but, 10-15 years ago Mark said products like this would "dilute Magic's core identity too much", so grains of salt.
Empirically though, UB has brought more people to Magic than anything else. Folks that have refused to learn for years are into it now that they can play with Galadriel and Negan. It's helped folks who have felt unwelcome in LGS and the community for a variety of reasons feel welcomed and have an on-ramp, a common thing to share with other players joining at the same time. The game has never been bigger, more visible, more played, or more expansive. Is that wrong and bad? Well, it is bad for Pro Tour Grinders and Lore Lovers for the reasons I listed above, and I feel that. And I guess, if you love Magic because it felt like a private club and now they let just anyone in here, perhaps it is.
But for me - and I know this is super cheesy - but I can remember cracking open my first pack and seeing Angelic Page and Great Whale and Bravado, and it was a flashbulb moment of total love for this game. Over 25 years and counting, Magic has been my comfort on dark days. It was a way to make friends fast when I was all alone in a new place for Grad school. Playing cards is how my wife and I spent our first weekend together while we were dating. It's how I proposed. And as my brothers and I drift apart with kids and jobs and mortgages and vacations, Magic is the thing that keeps us together, a common language that lets us come right back together. 12 year old me loved Magic for just how cool its own lore was - 37 year old me just loves playing a round of cards with my friends and family. At the end of the day, does it matter if those cards depict Karn and Volrath or if they depict Batman and the Joker? The core game, the strategy, the deckbuilding, is all the same. And heck, some of my family who have just politely played along are really excited to get to have Optimus Prime and Michonne in their decks now - and if that means more Magic, that's a win in my book.
If it was solely up to me, I guess I wish they hadn't of done this. I liked Magic's lore and art and style for Magic. They didn't need to change for me. But I respect they did for everyone else, and I'm a combination of resigned to and at peace with that decision.
But at the end of the day, I just can't imagine there will be anywhere left to play with just regular magic cards for me. I can't play an EDH game without someone showing up with Ian Malcom or Clara and the something Doctor. I can't afford legacy or vintage, (or won't, take your pick.) If I play Modern I can enjoy The One Ring and Orcish Bowmasters, (modern sucks but oh well that's another argument) and Standard is so boring and stagnant because they didn't let it rotate before extending rotation so that leaves draft.
The draft boosters which are now more expensive because after Wotc introduced a more expensive product that sold better they had no choice but to make draft boosters more expensive so that they... wait a minute. So, will I be excited as a Marvel fan and an Mtg fan that Iron Man uses the Energy mechanic? Sure will. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't of ever happened in the first place imho.
This could have all been avoided if Wotc/Hasbro, whoever the heck is in charge wasn't trying to squeeze every last miserable drop of money out of MTG. As far as I can tell, every major format has massive problems, and all we get from Wotc is, oh, uh howabout uh, some UB so we can make more money and bring more players so we can make more money. If wotc just took one minute to ban the One Ring in modern or do literally anything constructive with their game other than fleece people I'd be less saddened.
Its not the end of the world, magic isn't going to cease to exist. In fact I'm sure by every corporate metric MTG has never been better. But for people who actually play the game, I'm not so sure. Does it even really matter? Not really. And at the end of the day, I just would like to play a game that wasn't just a billboard for other games.
People also say, well, MTG always had stupid stuff, haha my goblin is piloting a mech from kamigawa with Ghalta in the backseat haha why are you complaining about your precious immersion. Well, you know what all those things have in that scenario? THEY ARE ALL FROM THE SAME BLASTED IP.
Again, if people are happy, more power to them, but I think I'm more and more inclined to go somewhere else. I don't want to stick around and ruin things for people, because I get why people are excited by UB stuff. I love designing it as custom cards. But sometimes when your dream becomes reality you find out its not all its made out to be.
I mean, if I could say, I want to play EDH with just regular magic cards, no triangle UB cards, I doubt I'd find any takers. And if you have a playgroup, then no problem you just all agree not play with them. If you don't well I hope you like Optimus Prime and Ian Malcom.
Honestly, I just wish we could say, one format for UB cards, one for regular cards. But seeing the cEDH EDH situation, I'm not sure that will work.
Further expanding on that last point, I love the idea of self-contained IPs. If someone says to me, hey wanna play DR Who Commander where we all play with Dr who cards only, sure sounds fun. Or play a fallout game, or a Warhammer commander game. Sounds good. I just don't like mixing ips because I'm a weirdo who cares about "muh immersion" as dumb of a thing as that is to care about. I know I'm in the minority too. Most people don't have any issue with Rick blocking Optimus who is targeted by Gandalf. Fair enough. I think my biggest issue is, its not that I fully immerse myself in a game, its that seeing a UB card makes me think about that ip which distracts me and confuses me.
Its like watching Star Trek and then all the sudden Gandalf pops up. Could you imagine how people would react? Do I like Gandalf? Yeah. Do I like Star Trek? Sure! But I DON'T WANT BOTH OF THEM IN THE SAME UNIVERSE. But that's just my dumb opinion, and in the grand scheme, I don't talk. Money does. So who cares, wotc can do whatever they want.
When I first started playing Magic, I was laboring under the delusion that this was a game about two wizards who battle each with spells, minions, etc from the MTG TM universe. I wasn't expecting all *gestures at UB* this to happen. I didn't sign up for it, and while the designs are fun, they ruin it for me when they displace the game I grew to love.
I mean right now, does any MTG player give a hoot about Ixalan? Not with the MARVEL UB ANNOUNCEMENT OR THE JURASSIC PARK ANNOUNCEMENT. The ship has sailed for MTG's lore and universe. Now its just one big ad. Six years ago, Underground set would have been the talk of the town. After today's announcement, no one cares anymore. Now it's just I wonder what Captain America's card will be. So much for magic's own universe.
Will I still play, of course, this game isn't called cardboard crack for nothing. But now I might as well just only play because of the UB stuff I happen to like because the normal lore is down the drain. There is not going to be MTG fans, there's going to be MTG MARVEL fans, and MTG DR WHO fans, and MTG FALLOUT fans. Cuz the actual MTG universe is ignored.
Honestly, we should just get ahead of the shark and just make formats for every IP. We can have regular MTG the format, Warhammer MTG the format (because there will be more in this universe coming) and Final Fantasy MTG the format.
I mean if they circle back and do sets for all the ips they've done already were halfway to having enough cards for a format /s
If you made it this far, this isn't really directed at you, its just me venting about Wotc's last three years of nonsense. I think you are right, and I think there is fun to be had still. I just wish we didn't have to burn the old to make way for the new.
Before they made this announcement, I was thinking about posting a list of all the things that were driving me away from this game, but didn't. I haven't been very active on this forum for the past couple months. Man, I just was hoping for some good news. Maybe its just me, but every time Wotc announces (or doesn't announce any bans) some new nonsense I'm getting more fed up.
I won't say I quit, because (something something see ya tomorrow) but my views towards wotc have gone from 1/10 to -100/10.
All they have to do is throw us one miserable bone, but they cant.
Lemme just go over Wotc's brilliant moves lately and their PR responses to player concerns:
Unfinity: Shoving a horrible un-fun and un-inspired gameplay mechanic down our throats because everyone is un-interested in these un-bearably bad products. HAHA black border enjoy noobs.
Universes Beyond: Haha, magic is like a box of buffets haha buffet analogy go brrr just ignore them haha lol stupid noob haha stupid immersion. Wotc/community.
Modern: Crap
Legacy: (I dunno)
Vintage (I dunno)
Standard: If it isn't crap its so boring no one cares enough to talk about it.
EDH (I rest my case)
Draft boosters haha, play boosters make more money haha.
The mustache hides nothing, "discover" - I know who you really are!
