[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - North Star

[folding_music]

(re: original/opposing painlands)

i play these every time lol
either on the ICE versions or the 5ED there's always an illustration I love
and they always hit play untapped and don't make you think (or shuffle like fetching a shock might), plus I have a complete set of painlands versus a very patchy collection of shocks/fetches which get super expensive at times. obviously the nigh-on-broken fetches are the best, then the og duals, but painlands are my third fave and I have easy access to them. just an unconditional, always trustworthy land, and I don't really lose games by one life point that often that the damage means much to me

[Dunharrow]

Painlands are great, I think worth playing in anything with 3 or fewer colors.
I will say that I have very few allied painlands. I know they were just reprinted, but I haven't opened that set yet. I remember they were like 5$ each which was ridiculous. Have to see if the price came down now.

[Toshi]

Monday, March 27th, 2023; The Pain Lands

I think lands such as these are a perfect example when online spaces don't perfectly represent LGSs and lots of metas.
Once you are an active member of this wonderful place, a discord or whatever, you are already beyond the effort the majority of EDH players go through to build decks and play them.
So yeah, these are no shocks, fetches or filter lands. But they allow you to t1 your Swords to Plowshares or Preordain off of Adarkar Wastes... so they are powerful enough and available comparably cheap.

4 of my commanders are 2C 2 drops, so heck yes, i run painlands in all of them! Once i get my mana base rolling i just tap them for without pinging myself - which City of Brass and Mana Confluence can't.

ps. that sulfurous springs|dkm has one of the best artworks of all lands in MTG

[TheGildedGoose]

The life loss is all but negligible, making these probably the second-best non-fetch or non-fetchable duals after the bond lands. I can't say enough good things about them, and I think they're the baseline for dual playability.

[Mookie]

Painlands are fine - they're untapped fixing, which is a fine baseline. The life loss does add up, but they can at least produce colorless if you don't need extra colored mana. As others have mentioned, they're particularly good if you care about colorless mana, or if you have payoffs for self-damage (such as Marchesa, the Black Rose or Darien, King of Kjeldor). I don't think I would ever want to run a full suite of them, but one or two is probably fine.

...I suppose there's the eternal question of 'untapped fixing with downside vs tapped fixing with upside', but there a lot of variables that go into that decision.

[Ruiner]

I use every pain land I can in 2 and 3 color decks. They are fine at color fixing and the life loss is (generally) not a big deal.

I've never made a 4 color deck, and I only have one 5 color deck, Progenitus. I wouldn't use Pain Lands in these sorts of decks as deck space ends up tight on lands.

[Sinis]

I'm going to be honest... I'm a very entrenched player with Revised Duals, fetches, shocks, etc. and I still play Painlands in most decks. They're just... totally acceptable. One life per activation almost never matters when you even have to activate for damage, and they're a very reasonable addition to almost deck. They're pretty monetarily cheap, and can also be used for things like Mirrorpool or whatever. They're very serviceable.

I have a real soft spot for some of the art, too; Sulfurous Springs|ICE and Underground River|ICE are both huge favourites of mine.

The weirdest thing I've noticed is that there is a significant overlap between the crowd that loathes ETB tapped lands and dislikes Painlands, for reasons I just can't understand.

[TheGildedGoose]

I suppose there's the eternal question of 'untapped fixing with downside vs tapped fixing with upside', but there a lot of variables that go into that decision.

Is this an eternal question? I would run virtually any untapped dual with a downside over a tapped dual with an upside, with the sole exception of reveal lands vs. temples because dang do those reveal lands suck. To me, a mana base's primary functions are to keep you on tempo and fix your mana. Utility lands like Bojuka Bog or Strip Mine are fine in small doses, but loading up on taplands and colorless nonbasics is a recipe for disaster.

[TheGildedGoose]

The weirdest thing I've noticed is that there is a significant overlap between the crowd that loathes ETB tapped lands and dislikes Painlands, for reasons I just can't understand.

It's an interesting dichotomy. Every time I see a new dual, I compare it to its respective painland. I wouldn't run painlands in a three color deck with fetches and shocks because I personally like playing a significant number of basics (you never forget your first Back to Basics or Blood Moon), but I would never fault someone for running them, ever.

Hot take: I hate fetchlands and think they were a huge design mistake, particularly their ability to get nonbasics. The game would be more affordable, have more difficult deckbuilding considerations, and save everyone a lot of damn time by not having to shuffle every three turns if they never existed.

[Hawk]

As others have said, for most decks untapped >>>>>> tapped lands. Tapped lands are crippling for decks with low curves, and arguably more crippling for decks with higher curves since you're already playing behind. Lands that are only conditionally tapped (Checklands, TangoLands) are okay in decks that are on a budget and need them and 3+ color decks with green that are on a budget may find running common typed duals or the cycling duals a necessary evil. And I'll admit I like temples more than most in a casual deck. But untapped is where it's at, and for me I think these are worse than Fetches, Shocks, and ABU duals, mostly worse than Battlebond lands, but better than the Pathways. They're a fine baseline that ought to be in all 2C decks as well as any 3C decks where the 3rd color is more of a splash. There's also additional synergy with self-damage or with colorless matters.

I will note that I can attest to the gap between veteran player respect for these duals as workhorses and new players absolute hatred for them. Most of my playgroup isn't nearly as enfranchised and every time I design decks and throw one of these in (since most are also budget friendly even compared to the Checklands and Pathways), I get immediate pushback and if left to their own devices newbies replace these with Evolving Wilds or basics. I don't always believe the WotC lie/line of "duals need to be rare because new players undervalue them or don't understand them", but it's definitely true with these.

[Ruiner]

I will note that I can attest to the gap between veteran player respect for these duals as workhorses and new players absolute hatred for them. Most of my playgroup isn't nearly as enfranchised and every time I design decks and throw one of these in (since most are also budget friendly even compared to the Checklands and Pathways), I get immediate pushback and if left to their own devices newbies replace these with Evolving Wilds or basics. I don't always believe the WotC lie/line of "duals need to be rare because new players undervalue them or don't understand them", but it's definitely true with these.

Could it be the psychological aspect of simply "Why would I play this thing that does damage to me?". I know back when I first started back in Odyssey/Onslaught era, I hated every time I got a pack and opened a fetchland for similar reasons. Eventually "life is just a resource" clicks and you get past that stuff.

[Mookie]

Eh, I disagree that the difference between tapped vs untapped lands is that large. All else being equal, yes, untapped lands are preferable... but what if you want to run Maze's End and need to run a bunch of tapped gates? What if you're a white deck and want a Karoo to power up Land Tax? What if you're running The Gitrog Monster or Titania, Protector of Argoth and want every single fetchland? I wouldn't necessarily recommend running a bunch of tapped lands at a higher-power table, but in more casual metas, I think there is a lot of room to get some utility out of your manabase beyond just fixing.

I'll also note that tapped lands aren't competing with the best lands in decks - the fetches, shocks, and duals. They're competing with the worst. Would I run a fetchable-but-tapped triome over a pathway in a 3C or 5C deck? Yeah, probably.

[3drinks]

I would run virtually any untapped dual with a downside over a tapped dual with an upside, with the sole exception of reveal lands vs. temples because dang do those reveal lands suck. To me, a mana base's primary functions are to keep you on tempo and fix your mana. Utility lands like Bojuka Bog or Strip Mine are fine in small doses, but loading up on taplands and colorless nonbasics is a recipe for disaster.

That's an interesting take because I've found the reveal lands overwhelmingly reliable. Maybe they're so good because I put a heavy focus on type duals, including dominaria and the snow duals (something I've been called out for in the community build a deck threads).

Idk, Necroblossom Snarl and Foreboding Ruins have done well for me.

[Toshi]

Well, that's exactly why the point was made that only certain decks prefer taplands.
Hence Archelos, Lagoon Mystic is not the benchmark commander for judging lands overall...

When it comes to Reveal lands, i think they are fine. You can get them in untapped by revealing typed duals or early on, when you didn't offload your lands just yet.
Mid to late game they are okayish, since jumping from say 7 to 8 mana isn't as crucial as your 2nd or 3rd land entering (un)tapped.
Their major problem is that there are plenty of better alternatives.

[DirkGently]

It's very unlikely for these to be cuttable in 2c. By 3c I typically don't run them, but sometimes will, especially if colorless or self-damage matters. 4*, basically never run them unless I really care about those things. They're still fine if you're on a budget though.

Imo the game would be best if the only fixing lands were guildgate-tier. There's very little cost to additional colors in this format so monocolor is usually awful unless the commander is super busted.

[Sinis]

Hot take: I hate fetchlands and think they were a huge design mistake, particularly their ability to get nonbasics. The game would be more affordable, have more difficult deckbuilding considerations, and save everyone a lot of damn time by not having to shuffle every three turns if they never existed.

I agree. Not just because it trivializes the risk:reward on playing more colours vs. less, or having more colour intensive cards vs. less (like Unnatural Growth), but fetches also have their thumb on the scale every time there's a mechanic like Threshold, Delirium, Delve, Escape...

[Venedrex]

Fetches are one of the biggest mistakes ever made. Want proof? They started Pioneer by banning them. The problem with fetches if they have no downsides (Paying 1 life is not that big of a deal), and they have waaaaay too many upsides.

Deck Thinning
Graveyard Filling
Mana fixing,
Deck Shuffling

Not to mention specific synergies with Death's Shadow decks.

Fetches are like early extra turn spells, they have way too few restrictions.

There are so many ways to make them better.

Change sacrifice to exile.

Make them only get basic lands.

Make them cost mana to activate.

And we've seen a lot of that already. Fabled Passage is the perfect example of how even a nerfed fetchland is still incredibly powerful. (Yes I know it doesn't get played in Legacy or Vintage, but I'm talking about Standard/Pioneer.)

Or best of all, just stop printing them, and get rid of them altogether.

What I would like to see is lands that reward you for playing a certain number colors rather than just ALL THE COLORS. Fetches just turn everything into soup. I'd like to see lands made that say, this enters untapped as long as you don't control a Mountain or Forest. I.E this is a land that helps fix for a Esper deck, rather than a 4 or 5 color deck. Or a land that is a painland if you control a Mountain, Swamp, or Island. Rewarding you for staying in Green White for instance.

[Sinis]

They started Pioneer by banning them.

Honestly, this was so telling that the initial Pioneer banlist was either entirely or mostly fetchlands.

[onering]

Pains will always make my 2 color decks, no question, and most of my 3 color decks will have a painland covering the colors I will need the most fixing for, or more than one depending on need. And that's online, where I have every dual ever. In paper, they're a lifesaver.

[3drinks]

Tuesday, March 28th, 2023; Academy Manufactor

[Toshi]

What were they thinking when they designed this!?

[Sinis]

Academy Manufactor got so hyped during spoilers for MH2, and I don't think I've ever seen it played. I even got a copy myself (as well as Lonis, Cryptozoologist and Fae Offering... also unplayed).

Maybe I should finally get on that...

[Lifeless]

I would assume there's a ton of low cost ways to break this but honestly I can't be bothered.

[3drinks]

I used it to good effect in Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer. Even cracked the food a few times to not die to my mana crypt.

[Guardman]

Academy Manufactor basically boils down to does your deck consistently make Clues, Food, and/or Treasure? If the answer is yes, you probably should play this card. For example, a kid at my LGS plays a Jinnie Fay, Jetmir's Second deck that has a decent amount of Treasure production and this would let him triple the number of tokens he gets. It even has a way to make infinite tokens with Academy Manufactor and Prosperous Partnership.

Also, as a side, two Canada Geese are fighting outside my window as I type this.