Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[illakunsaa]

Stasis and Static Orb would be nice. Orb especially because the tempest printing doesn't have the updated wording and it makes it harder to understand for newer players.

[Hermes_]

https://www.ign.com/articles/lord-of-th ... g-spoilers

The One Ring – {4}
Legendary Artifact

Indestructible
When The One Ring enters the battlefield, if you cast it, you gain protection from everything until your next turn.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life for each burden counter on The One Ring.
{t}:Put a burden counter on The One Ring, then draw a card for each burden counter on The One Ring.

Gandalf the Grey – {3}{U}{R}
Legendary Creature – Avatar Wizard

Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, choose one that hasn't been chosen —
- You may tap or untap target permanent.
- Gandalf the Grey deals 3 damage to each opponent.
- Copy target instant or sorcery spell you control. You may choose new targets for the copy.
- Put Gandalf on top of its owner's library.

3/4

omg those lands

[Dunadain]

Can someone explain to me how a player having protection works? I've always used the d e b t acronym for protection, but players having protection opens up some things I don't quite understand. First of all could something like torrent of hail fire still cause you to lose life since losing life is different from damage? Second of all, can you still attack the player that has protection from everything? I know it wouldn't deal any damage but I can think of situations where you would still want to attack them.

[folding_music]

the one ring is fully ridiculous. like it's eyeroll good

[Cyberium]

The One Ring – {4}
Legendary Artifact

Indestructible
When The One Ring enters the battlefield, if you cast it, you gain protection from everything until your next turn.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life for each burden counter on The One Ring.
{t}:Put a burden counter on The One Ring, then draw a card for each burden counter on The One Ring.

White is good at blinking and life gain, which makes the Ring a feasible benefit. Bounce and recast would be more of blue's domain, though.

[Dunadain]

The One Ring – {4}
Legendary Artifact

Indestructible
When The One Ring enters the battlefield, if you cast it, you gain protection from everything until your next turn.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life for each burden counter on The One Ring.
{t}:Put a burden counter on The One Ring, then draw a card for each burden counter on The One Ring.

White is good at blinking and life gain, which makes the Ring a feasible benefit. Bounce and recast would be more of blue's domain, though.

Drafna, Founder of Lat-Nam seems like the obvious commander if you want to go that route, but honestly, 6 mana to draw fewer cards is meh, I think i'd just rather use it fairly

[folding_music]

if you want to use it fairly you need to get to the presses in time to write 9 in its top right corner

[Dunadain]

Oh come on, it's not THAT bad. We always get so worked up about new spoilers, lol

[maeos]

Can someone explain to me how a player having protection works? I've always used the d e b t acronym for protection, but players having protection opens up some things I don't quite understand. First of all could something like torrent of hail fire still cause you to lose life since losing life is different from damage? Second of all, can you still attack the player that has protection from everything? I know it wouldn't deal any damage but I can think of situations where you would still want to attack them.

debt still applies and everything else still goes through. similarly -1/-1 goes through protection on creatures

[Venedrex]

I guess we still have 2 more Gandalf's to come, but I am very curious to hear the explanation as to why Gandalf the Grey isn't a DFC. Are they saving it for the Gandalf the White card? Is he going to be like a flipwalker, or is this just, nah we don't want Gandalf to transform even though that is kind of a slam dunk. Guess I'll just have to wait one more day.

I'm trying to not immediately pass judgement without seeing everything, but I cannot imagine even Wotc could determine that a character who undergoes a complete "transformation" doesn't get a card with the ya know, transform mechanic.

[Dunadain]

I guess we still have 2 more Gandalf's to come, but I am very curious to hear the explanation as to why Gandalf the Grey isn't a DFC. Are they saving it for the Gandalf the White card? Is he going to be like a flipwalker, or is this just, nah we don't want Gandalf to transform even though that is kind of a slam dunk. Guess I'll just have to wait one more day.

Why three gandalfs? The grey, the white, whats the last one? is there something from the simarilion that I'm not aware of?

[Venedrex]

I guess we still have 2 more Gandalf's to come, but I am very curious to hear the explanation as to why Gandalf the Grey isn't a DFC. Are they saving it for the Gandalf the White card? Is he going to be like a flipwalker, or is this just, nah we don't want Gandalf to transform even though that is kind of a slam dunk. Guess I'll just have to wait one more day.

Why three gandalfs? The grey, the white, whats the last one? is there something from the simarilion that I'm not aware of?

Friend of the shire. It's like how we got Urza, Powerstone Prodigy, Urza, Prince of Kroog, and Urza, Lord Protector

[toctheyounger]

I guess we still have 2 more Gandalf's to come, but I am very curious to hear the explanation as to why Gandalf the Grey isn't a DFC. Are they saving it for the Gandalf the White card? Is he going to be like a flipwalker, or is this just, nah we don't want Gandalf to transform even though that is kind of a slam dunk. Guess I'll just have to wait one more day.

Why three gandalfs? The grey, the white, whats the last one? is there something from the simarilion that I'm not aware of?

Maybe Gandalf post ring destruction (sorry for spoilers fam lol)? Or Gandalf out of time and mind mid-balrog fight?

I can't wait to see the balrog personally. And the witch-king.

[Venedrex]

I guess we still have 2 more Gandalf's to come, but I am very curious to hear the explanation as to why Gandalf the Grey isn't a DFC. Are they saving it for the Gandalf the White card? Is he going to be like a flipwalker, or is this just, nah we don't want Gandalf to transform even though that is kind of a slam dunk. Guess I'll just have to wait one more day.

Why three gandalfs? The grey, the white, whats the last one? is there something from the simarilion that I'm not aware of?

Maybe Gandalf post ring destruction (sorry for spoilers fam lol)? Or Gandalf out of time and mind mid-balrog fight?

I can't wait to see the balrog personally. And the witch-king.

Apparently the three are going to be Friend of the Shire, the Gray (which we just saw) and the White.

Some have speculated that the White is going to be a planeswalker, but that's just speculation.

[maeos]

a little disappointed that the Gray wasnt colourless >.>

[toctheyounger]

Why three gandalfs? The grey, the white, whats the last one? is there something from the simarilion that I'm not aware of?

Maybe Gandalf post ring destruction (sorry for spoilers fam lol)? Or Gandalf out of time and mind mid-balrog fight?

I can't wait to see the balrog personally. And the witch-king.

Apparently the three are going to be Friend of the Shire, the Gray (which we just saw) and the White.

Some have speculated that the White is going to be a planeswalker, but that's just speculation.

Gotcha.

There's a pretty good chance he could be a walker. As a maiar he is a step above most of the other folk existent in Middle Earth, aside from Sauron and Saruman (pre-betrayal).

a little disappointed that the Gray wasnt colourless >.>

I was thinking about that too, and I think it makes sense. As a wizard blue makes sense, as a ring bearer, and Narya in particular, the red makes sense.

[Dunadain]

Why three gandalfs? The grey, the white, whats the last one? is there something from the simarilion that I'm not aware of?

Maybe Gandalf post ring destruction (sorry for spoilers fam lol)? Or Gandalf out of time and mind mid-balrog fight?

I can't wait to see the balrog personally. And the witch-king.

Apparently the three are going to be Friend of the Shire, the Gray (which we just saw) and the White.

Some have speculated that the White is going to be a planeswalker, but that's just speculation.

Ah, so I'm just out of the loop, as usual.

[Venedrex]

Maybe Gandalf post ring destruction (sorry for spoilers fam lol)? Or Gandalf out of time and mind mid-balrog fight?

I can't wait to see the balrog personally. And the witch-king.

Apparently the three are going to be Friend of the Shire, the Gray (which we just saw) and the White.

Some have speculated that the White is going to be a planeswalker, but that's just speculation.

Gotcha.

There's a pretty good chance he could be a walker. As a maiar he is a step above most of the other folk existent in Middle Earth, aside from Sauron and Saruman (pre-betrayal).

Yeah, I think it's reasonable. Every set needs planeswalkers (according to Wotc) and like you say there aren't many entities in LOTR that are powerful enough. Also the fact that he came from outside of Middle-Earth per se kind of works with the flavor of being a planeswalker.

[toctheyounger]

Apparently the three are going to be Friend of the Shire, the Gray (which we just saw) and the White.

Some have speculated that the White is going to be a planeswalker, but that's just speculation.

Gotcha.

There's a pretty good chance he could be a walker. As a maiar he is a step above most of the other folk existent in Middle Earth, aside from Sauron and Saruman (pre-betrayal).

Yeah, I think it's reasonable. Every set needs planeswalkers (according to Wotc) and like you say there aren't many entities in LOTR that are powerful enough. Also the fact that he came from outside of Middle-Earth per se kind of works with the flavor of being a planewalker.

Makes me wonder who else we might see as a walker. Presumably if Gandalf then Sauron.

[Venedrex]

Gotcha.

There's a pretty good chance he could be a walker. As a maiar he is a step above most of the other folk existent in Middle Earth, aside from Sauron and Saruman (pre-betrayal).

Yeah, I think it's reasonable. Every set needs planeswalkers (according to Wotc) and like you say there aren't many entities in LOTR that are powerful enough. Also the fact that he came from outside of Middle-Earth per se kind of works with the flavor of being a planewalker.

Makes me wonder who else we might see as a walker. Presumably if Gandalf then Sauron.

I could see Sauron as a planeswalker. It would certainly work well with the color balance, since you could have him be or or , and you could have him as a legendary creature too if you wanted as well.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, I think it's reasonable. Every set needs planeswalkers (according to Wotc) and like you say there aren't many entities in LOTR that are powerful enough. Also the fact that he came from outside of Middle-Earth per se kind of works with the flavor of being a planewalker.

Makes me wonder who else we might see as a walker. Presumably if Gandalf then Sauron.

I could see Sauron as a planeswalker. It would certainly work well with the color balance, since you could have him be or or , and you could have him as a legendary creature too if you wanted as well.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I think maybe he isn't a walker. A pre-ring loss Sauron probably would be. Maybe a post ring loss Sauron is maybe more of a legendary creature - shade sort of vibe. Binding that much of himself into a horcrux (take that Rowling) maybe makes him less of a walker status character. Perhaps more like a Theros god?

[Venedrex]

Yeah, I mean Sauron's thing was he had a hard time maintaining a physical form, so the whole enchantment that becomes a creature could fit if they wanted go down that route. I mean, if we do end up getting three versions of him, they definitely have room to try different things.

You could have him as the Necromancer sort of creature,

The Eye,

Peak of power type thing.

Cunning disguised version... lots of options.

[DirkGently]

Drafna, Founder of Lat-Nam seems like the obvious commander if you want to go that route, but honestly, 6 mana to draw fewer cards is meh, I think i'd just rather use it fairly

It's not just drawing fewer cards, though, it's also giving you protection from everything each time you refresh it. Seems worth 6 to me.

As far as the power level goes, if you aren't bouncing it, it seems very strong but probably not too much at either end? Like, at cEDH levels, 4 mana for a card that draws you 3 cards over the next 2 turns is not very compelling I wouldn't think. At the very casual end, the life loss matters a lot more and will bring the power level down. It's similar to Mind Unbound and The Magic Mirror, but a turn faster and with life loss. Or it's a Malignant Growth without the cumulative upkeep. And then of course there's the protection and the indestructible to consider.

I think at the middle power levels this will be very strong. But, it's still incremental, so I don't think it will completely dominate a game unless the protection is exploited. The protection does mean it's almost never a dead draw too. I dunno, it's easy to freak out about how strong it is in the ideal location like Drafna, but for decks that aren't looking for a slower draw engine and don't have a way to bounce it, it might not be too exciting. I still think it's going to see a lot of play, though. I wish it cost at least 1-2 more mana.

[toctheyounger]

Drafna, Founder of Lat-Nam seems like the obvious commander if you want to go that route, but honestly, 6 mana to draw fewer cards is meh, I think i'd just rather use it fairly

It's not just drawing fewer cards, though, it's also giving you protection from everything each time you refresh it. Seems worth 6 to me.

As far as the power level goes, if you aren't bouncing it, it seems very strong but probably not too much at either end? Like, at cEDH levels, 4 mana for a card that draws you 3 cards over the next 2 turns is not very compelling I wouldn't think. At the very casual end, the life loss matters a lot more and will bring the power level down. It's similar to Mind Unbound and The Magic Mirror, but a turn faster and with life loss. Or it's a Malignant Growth without the cumulative upkeep. And then of course there's the protection and the indestructible to consider.

I think at the middle power levels this will be very strong. But, it's still incremental, so I don't think it will completely dominate a game unless the protection is exploited. The protection does mean it's almost never a dead draw too. I dunno, it's easy to freak out about how strong it is in the ideal location like Drafna, but for decks that aren't looking for a slower draw engine and don't have a way to bounce it, it might not be too exciting. I still think it's going to see a lot of play, though. I wish it cost at least 1-2 more mana.

This pretty well encompassed all of my thoughts on it. It's definitely not busted, at least not without finagling it with other stuff like proliferate, bouncing, yada yada. Definitely isn't strong enough for the spikier power levels, but strong enough to see play in casual levels without dominating.

Oh god, I just had the terrible realisation that Game Knights gets to get their cheesy production all over my favorite IP.

[Dunadain]

Drafna, Founder of Lat-Nam seems like the obvious commander if you want to go that route, but honestly, 6 mana to draw fewer cards is meh, I think i'd just rather use it fairly

It's not just drawing fewer cards, though, it's also giving you protection from everything each time you refresh it. Seems worth 6 to me.

Is it though? The combo doesn't even "do" anything. Don't get me wrong, if you have the option available you'll get some use out of it. But it's only useful if you are losing, and if you are losing, spending 6 mana each turn to Teferi's Protection every turn is nice, but it's also not helping you catch back up either.

It's also far from unassailable. The One Ring has Indestructible, but it can still be countered (and unlike other combos where it's have a counter now or die, you can always find a counter later on and counter it when it gets replayed) or exiled. Drafna, Founder of Lat-Nam/whatever card B is can still be interacted with. Heck you're not even invincible when you DO have the lock going, any alternate Win-Condition can still beat you and, as I just learned, it doesn't even save you from life loss effects like Torment of Hailfire or Gray Merchant of Asphodel.

I really don't see this being that much stronger than a Constant Mists or Spore Frog loop. Sure it's strong, but it's not really a gameplan in and of its self, it's just a way to buy time.

Compare using it as a Spore Frog loop to using it as an increasingly powerful card advantage engine that doesn't require any mana input and I think the choice is obvious. Rather than not dying, just draw a bunch of cards and win.

If you DO want to exploit this card and use synergies to squeeze more out of this card than its face value, then I'd be more interested in proliferating and even MORE interested in untapping it over and over again.