Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[Lifeless]

I'm sticking with my stance that the only positive here is that they're providing high resolution images we can be used to make our own proxies.

[Hawk]

Sheldon reaffirming that these proxies aren't legal in Commander by default is oddly comforting to me? Like I've been really wracked with whether or not this release means I should just go nutso buying proxies or making my own now to play an "optimal" deck without spending anymore - for some reason I can't explain that feels wrong to me and I don't know why.

[Jemolk]

Sheldon reaffirming that these proxies aren't legal in Commander by default is oddly comforting to me? Like I've been really wracked with whether or not this release means I should just go nutso buying proxies or making my own now to play an "optimal" deck without spending anymore - for some reason I can't explain that feels wrong to me and I don't know why.

I mean, I certainly wouldn't want to feel pressured to optimize, regardless of the source. Maybe you, like me, aren't interested in optimization so much as creativity and coolness factor? I mean, I happily proxy stuff like Illusionary Mask for my 5c Morph deck, not because it's particularly powerful, but because it's on theme and very amusing. I wouldn't even dream of doing the same for a Mana Crypt, though, just because as something approaching "staple" level I find it incredibly boring. Got into this briefly on the Community Deckbuilding Project 3.0 thread when I said nay to Arcane Signet, but using generically good cards just because they're in some sense best in class is something I actively dislike, and I go out of my way to avoid cards like that because I think the game is better when we treat them as though they're not compulsory -- and sometimes as though they didn't exist at all.

[DirkGently]

Proxies being not-technically-legal is the best place for them. If someone is on a budget and needs proxies to compete, everyone can/should be chill about it. If someone's proxying cEDH just to stomp people, they can get rightfully dunked on.

I mean, I certainly wouldn't want to feel pressured to optimize, regardless of the source. Maybe you, like me, aren't interested in optimization so much as creativity and coolness factor? I mean, I happily proxy stuff like Illusionary Mask for my 5c Morph deck, not because it's particularly powerful, but because it's on theme and very amusing. I wouldn't even dream of doing the same for a Mana Crypt, though, just because as something approaching "staple" level I find it incredibly boring. Got into this briefly on the Community Deckbuilding Project 3.0 thread when I said nay to Arcane Signet, but using generically good cards just because they're in some sense best in class is something I actively dislike, and I go out of my way to avoid cards like that because I think the game is better when we treat them as though they're not compulsory -- and sometimes as though they didn't exist at all.

I like building off the beaten path, but I don't necessarily see that much of a point to standing on principle when it comes to basic building blocks like mana production. Sure, arcane signet is best in slot and sees a ton of play, but is the game really more interesting if you use Fractured Powerstone instead? If the plan of the deck wants 2 mana ramp, I say just use the best in slot. Spend more effort making the deck unique in terms of the core of how it functions, not just running off-meta cards.

[duducrash]

I have a job. Not a bad job mind you. And sometimes this game amazes me at how much it costs and I cant keep up. I personally like buying my cards and all that, but who am I to apply that to everyone? Do I look like the police and will inspect every card? Oh please! I aint no snitch

[RxPhantom]

I don't want to derail this thread with any form of positivity, but the advent calendar Secret Lair thing looks dope as hell.

[benjameenbear]

Hey, can someone explain what happens to the melded cards for Urza and Mishra if the melded permanent dies or leaves play? Does the critical meld piece get exiled for good? Because if so, I think the secondary meld piece should be allowed to go to the Command zone so you're transforming of your Mishra or Urza isn't a one trick thing…

[kirkusjones]

I don't want to derail this thread with any form of positivity, but the advent calendar Secret Lair thing looks dope as hell.

Is there a list of the cards somewhere? Or is it just "this may have won a tournament, enjoy your squadron hawk"?

[Wallycaine]

Hey, can someone explain what happens to the melded cards for Urza and Mishra if the melded permanent dies or leaves play? Does the critical meld piece get exiled for good? Because if so, I think the secondary meld piece should be allowed to go to the Command zone so you're transforming of your Mishra or Urza isn't a one trick thing…

Barring a rules change, they will go to the appropriate zone for the effect removing the larger meld creature. So if something destroys Urza, Planeswalker, then The Mightstone and Weakstone will go to your graveyard while Urza, Lord Protector will go to the command zone if you want. Notably, Phyrexian Dragon Engine already has innate reanimation from Unearth, and WU has plenty of ways to bring artifacts back from the graveyard. So it's really "only" exile effects that will stop you from doing the meld thing multiple times.

[Dragonlover]

Can we run Phyrexian Dragon Engine in a mono-red deck, or is that one an 'unknown, wait for the rules article'?

Dragonlover

[Hermes_]

I don't want to derail this thread with any form of positivity, but the advent calendar Secret Lair thing looks dope as hell.

I want that Elspeth...

I don't want to derail this thread with any form of positivity, but the advent calendar Secret Lair thing looks dope as hell.

Is there a list of the cards somewhere? Or is it just "this may have won a tournament, enjoy your squadron hawk"?

https://www.wargamer.com/magic-the-gath ... t-calendar

[kirkusjones]

Hachi machi. I will definitely be buying one of those. Thanks @Hermes_!

[DirkGently]

Since I bought the commander-viable unset cards, I'll do a quick commander rundown in terms of power and interesting-ness of the legends.

Ambassador Blorpityblorpbloop
Power: B-
Interestingness: B
Easily the most effective sticker commander, which means he's probably the only card that might make dealing with sticker logistics worth it. His p/t defining ability is pretty bleh, but blinking him to stack up ability stickers could be reasonably effective.

Angelic Harold (acorn)
Power: D-
Interestingness: F
Bad. Maybe there's some tokens that have 3+ word names? Even then, though.

"Brims" Barone, Midway Mobster (acorn)
Power: D
Interestingness: F
I guess you can make tokens with hats on them. Even then, though.

Captain Rex Nebula
Power: D
Interestingness: C
I guess you're mostly dealing with discounted affinity-style cards to make them slightly larger, at the cost of needing to crew them. Limiting to one per turn seems pretty low-ceiling. I guess you can do the vehicle thing of persisting through creature wipes. He can turn himself into a vehicle too. Idk what the flavor of that is supposed to be.

Claire D'Loon, Joy Sculptor (acorn)
Power: C+
Interestingness: B
Funky ability. Can do some shenanigans for sure. I'm not going to think too hard about it, though, since it's acorn, so I'll just give it a "huh, neat" and move on.

D00-DL, Caricaturist (acorn)
Power: F
Interestingness: D
I mean, it's kinda fun to think about what the drawing priorities are, but then you remember you're making a 6 mana 4/4 that's not even your commander, and in the worst possible CI.

Dee Kay, Finder of the Lost
Power: C
Interestingness: C-
Pretty bland attraction commander. Sure, you can blink it, but if you really want to do attractions, just use Myra instead. The dice rolling thing is okay, there's probably some way to go infinite with the 4-trigger. Looks more like a 99 card, except who wants to bother with an attraction deck for this one random mediocre card?

Devil K. Nevil (acorn)
Power: D+
Interestingness: D-
From what I can tell, jumping over creatures is basically trivial so long as you don't care about damaging your cards, so the main limit is having enough creatures to jump. And I guess you can jump tokens, which could just be coins, which makes jumping all of them extra trivial. So it's like a really bad Purphoros, God of the Forge build or something.

Fluros of Myra's Marvels (acorn)
Power: D
Interestingness: D
%$#% if I can see a good way to make this effective. It's not even mv, so you can't use affinity stuff. At least it's got partner.

Grand Marshal Macie (acorn)
Power: A
Interestingness: A
This is almost certainly broken so it's probably good that it's acorn, though I'll admit it'd be cool to see what it might do. One thing it'll definitely do is create an argument about how Ethersworn Canonist works with it (or doesn't).

Hardy of Myra's Marvels (acorn)
Power: B
Interestingness: C
Strongly in acorn territory, but this would definitely be pretty powerful. There's gotta be a bunch of flavor-heavy low-impact 1-mana cantrips out there. Churn through your deck and make your commander an easy 1-shot. Partner too.

Ignacio of Myra's Marvels (acorn)
Power: A
Interestingness: C
There's definitely a brutal storm deck in there somewhere. I'm glad it's trapped in acorn land.

It Came from Planet Glurg (acorn)
Power: C
Interestingness: C
This is in the could-be-real territory. It probably hits the same combo territory as Experiment Kraj, but probably worse since it looks easier to disrupt. I'd be fine with someone playing this I think.

Jermane, Pride of the Circus (acorn)
Power: C
Interestingness: C
GT: give +2/+2 permanently is pretty insane for a 2-drop tbh. And the potential board-wipe ability is gross too. There's gotta be plenty of 4+ legged deathtouchers. Despite the efficiency, though, he's not really doing a "strong in commander" sort of thing in my view. More of a 99 card.

Katerina of Myra's Marvels (acorn)
Power: B+
Interestingness: D
I'm sure you can make a whole deck with one letter and just storm off making 2/2 flyers all day. Probably "S" based on my experience.

Lila, Hospitality Hostess (acorn)
Power: B-
Interestingness: C
Being limited to nonlands is a real issue for these types of cards, but it's still not bad, and the restriction seems workable especially for something stormish. Also there's the guest buff, but it seems irrelevant.

Magar of the Magic Strings
Power: A
Interestingness: A
I mean this is way too easy to break. Any extra combat step spells can kill anyone without blockers for a start. Or just keep making big zombie armies with Army of the Damned. It really should have had a mv limiter on it or something. This looks like one of those obvious "we'll make this really pushed because only commander will be effected by it" kinda cards.

Meet and Greet "Sisay" (acorn)
Power: B
Interestingness: D
Kinda like Hardy, except you're less locked in but it's only EOT and only on Sisay. Alternately, the treasure thing makes her a bad Ignacio instead. She does only cost 2 though. Idk, the more I think about it the expansion symbol is basically irrelevant so she's really a stronger Birgi, God of Storytelling // Harnfel, Horn of Bounty, which is already pretty strong.

Monoxa, Midway Manager
Power: F
Interestingness: F
Wow, a hill giant with conditional menace, lifelink, and first strike. Neat. I won't even dignify that activated ability with analysis.

Myra the Magnificent
Power: A-
Interestingness: A
Magar and Myra seem like the two big commander pushes. Myra is probably less broken, since she depends a lot on attractions. That said, with time magic she can do gross things irrespective of the attraction particulars, and a standard-issue spellslinger will let you open the entire carnival in a few turns, so I'm sure powerful things will happen. She's also the only attraction commander that's better than mediocre.

Nocturno of Myra's Marvels (acorn)
Power: B
Interestingness: C
Probably pretty strong in a storm deck. There's a lot of cards that enable storm in this set. As if I needed another reason to hate it.

Pietra, Crafter of Clowns (acorn)
Power: D
Interestingness: F
Regardless of whether the joke lands, this is still pretty uninteresting. Not enough of a payoff to go full changeling, and 2t for a 2/2 haste is not exciting from a commander.

Roxi, Publicist to the Stars
Power: F
Interestingness: F
She doesn't do much with the stickers she provides, nor does she provide a way to get more except blinking her. Way too much work for a medium-powered flyer, and not enough commander-quality payoffs or enablers for the 99.

Solaflora, Intergalactic Icon (acorn)
Power: B
Interestingness: B
This definitely goes nuts fairly quickly with a lot of things. Tokens with swords, oh my. Kinda expensive to get going, and fragile to removal, but if you're playing acorn she's among the stronger options in the set I think.

Spinnerette, Arachnobat
Power: F
Interestingness: F
Wow, a 4/4 menace reach for 5. What a payoff.

The Most Dangerous Gamer
Power: F
Interestingness: F
He's B/B for un-commander, but of all the non-acorn attractions only ONE has a prize, and afaik there's not even a way to reuse it once it's sacrificed. Especially irritating since there's no reason they couldn't have made more non-acorn prizes. Push Your Luck has no good reason to be acorn, and you could easily revise stuff like Guess Your Fate to be non-acorn. Hell, even Scavenger Hunt could be done easily, just make it like "mv=5, an artifact creature, a green sorcery" and then you see if you have a hit in the top 5 cards or something. Instead we've got a non-acorn, cool-looking commander that does nothing unless you're playing acorn. Even then, a lot of the prize attractions involve either near-impossible luck or *shudder* outside-the-game players, so %$#% that.

The Space Family Goblinson
Power: D
Interestingness: F
You can probably get them decently sized but they're still trash.

Truss, Chief Engineer (acorn)
Power: B
Interestingness: B
Yeah I'm pretty sure this still goes infinite with something despite the limitation.

Tusk and Whiskers
Power: F
Interestingness: C
Idk why this is so trash. I swear they went out of their way to make most of the uncommon legends garbage. Four mana for one ticket? Sheesh. Repeatable stickers sounds good in theory, but I'll take ambassador blinksalot instead, thanks. One etb seems a tad easier than 12 mana across 3 turns.

Vorthos, Steward of Myth (acorn)
Power: C?
Interestingness: F
It's probably breakable somehow but I sure don't care enough to figure it out.

My most likely to build list:
Myra the Magnificent
Magar of the Magic Strings
Ambassador Blorpityblorpbloop

[benjameenbear]

Hey, can someone explain what happens to the melded cards for Urza and Mishra if the melded permanent dies or leaves play? Does the critical meld piece get exiled for good? Because if so, I think the secondary meld piece should be allowed to go to the Command zone so you're transforming of your Mishra or Urza isn't a one trick thing…

Barring a rules change, they will go to the appropriate zone for the effect removing the larger meld creature. So if something destroys Urza, Planeswalker, then The Mightstone and Weakstone will go to your graveyard while Urza, Lord Protector will go to the command zone if you want. Notably, Phyrexian Dragon Engine already has innate reanimation from Unearth, and WU has plenty of ways to bring artifacts back from the graveyard. So it's really "only" exile effects that will stop you from doing the meld thing multiple times.

Ok, cool. Thanks for clarifying!

[Wallycaine]

The Most Dangerous Gamer
Power: F
Interestingness: F
He's B/B for un-commander, but of all the non-acorn attractions only ONE has a prize, and afaik there's not even a way to reuse it once it's sacrificed. Especially irritating since there's no reason they couldn't have made more non-acorn prizes. Push Your Luck (a) has no good reason to be acorn, and you could easily revise stuff like Guess Your Fate (b) to be non-acorn. Hell, even Scavenger Hunt (a) could be done easily, just make it like "mv=5, an artifact creature, a green sorcery" and then you see if you have a hit in the top 5 cards or something. Instead we've got a non-acorn, cool-looking commander that does nothing unless you're playing acorn. Even then, a lot of the prize attractions involve either near-impossible luck or *shudder* outside-the-game players, so %$#% that.

Maro talked on tumblr about Push Your Luck (b), but the basic jist is that it was a victim of the Eternal/Acorn change being made late in development. When designing the set, they thought everything was going to be silver bordered anyways, so they put Pink Teddy Bear tokens as the prize in homage to Water Gun Balloon Game. By the time they decided to do the Eternal/Acorn thing, the art and frame had already been comissioned for the token as Pink. Since things can't be colors other than the 5 magic colors, that meant that unless they changed the token, it was destined for Acorn land. And the other token options were either significantly weaker (Squirrels), significantly more powerful (anything with flying), or morally reprehensible (Winning employees as a prize is... bad). So as to not throw their drafting testing out the window at a late stage, they just went with keeping it acorn, even though an equivalent card could be made that would be eternal legal.

[DirkGently]

@Wallycaine I know the reason behind it, I just don't think it's a good reason. Making the set eternal legal late in production is a terrible idea imo, and should have been done earlier or not at all. And I don't buy that there aren't levers that could be moved to make a different-power-level token fit for push your luck. I mean, it's already stupid overpowered compared to Clown Extruder - a 1/3 chance to make a 1/1 vs a 1/2 chance to make a 2/2, with the potential upside of +5/+5 haste (say if hitting for 7 is your only out). That's pretty gross for limited, imo make it a 1/1 so it's not as overpowered in limited and is playable outside of it - that's a win win in my book.

As far as the most dangerous gamer is concerned, he probably should have just been acorned since he basically has to be played acorn anyway.

[wildfire393]

Can we run Phyrexian Dragon Engine in a mono-red deck, or is that one an 'unknown, wait for the rules article'?

Dragonlover

It is currently ambiguous in the comprehensive rules. The existing meld pairs are all colorless on their rear sides, so the color identity remains the same.

The rules say that color indicators (and mana symbols) on the rear face of a DFC count towards color identity, without mentioning Meld cards, presumably since it didn't matter. Elsewhere, the rules say that Meld cards are not DFCs.

So rules as written, Phyrexian Dragon Engine is mono-red and The Mightstone and Weakstone is colorless for color identity purposes. But rules as intended, they appear as though the CIs should be RB and UW, respectively. We will likely have to wait for the Oracle update to rule one way or the other.

[Lifeless]

I thank God that Solaflora, Intergalactic Icon isn't normally legal. It is very much my personal brand of insanity. That little acron sticker is saving me a lot of trouble and possibly some friends.

*Edit - To be fair she's probably still less annoying than Cathar's Crusade.

[Hermes_]

so, after looking at the previews for unfinity, "Brims" Barone, Midway Mobster would have been perfect for one of those wacky tribes that would only work in commander, in this case, creatures wearing hats. I'd call the deck "Men without hats"

Also Solaflora, Intergalactic Icon not being legal makes my Voltron deck cry

[Legend]

Posting this in a couple of places because not everyone catches every thread.
Want to know how much you'll have to shell out for Magic's 30th anniversary! Look no further.
https://peterniemeier.github.io/mtg30/
Remember, they're proxies.

[PrimevalCommander]

I mock drafted several packs and it is as bad as you would expect for randomized product. Buying 1 box of 4 will average you 1 dual land and a bunch of chaff. May as well just buy real duals for that. Looks like you need to spend $4,000+ to get a piece of power, but that will also be accompanied by a few duals. Still, the fact that they are not "playable/legal" cards makes the expense so extravagant that I cannot fathom ever cracking these. I expect they will always be worth more as sealed product because then each $250 pack could be that black lotus, and the price will increase accordingly.

[Lifeless]

I do wonder if this will be a product that is exclusively purchased to keep sealed, but that would mean I understand the type of person who is buying it and I certainly don't.

[Cyberium]

New jumpstart packs look promising. We need more "good" jumpstart.

[folding_music]

i physically can't handle reading any more new cards. dunno, something about the gruelling saminess has me totally skipping jumpstart for definite. it's all so rigid mnnn like they're printing the collectible version of Disturbed lyrics and we're on album two hundred and one

[RxPhantom]

I really like JumpStart conceptually, so much so that I'm working on my own cube. It's really fun.