Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Unofficial Spoiler Discussion
I'm sure it's been mentioned elsewhere, but the whole "choose a background" thing must be their new version of partner. You get one commander and one background in the command zone. Otherwise it makes no sense to have so many mono-colored legends in a commander draft set, drafting mono-color is really unlikely under normal circumstances.

So that makes things a bit more interesting.

edit: and then I realize that the latest leak literally says that on the cards if I had just kept reading. What an amazing sleuth I am :poop:
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Unofficial Spoiler Discussion
I'm sure it's been mentioned elsewhere, but the whole "choose a background" thing must be their new version of partner. You get one commander and one background in the command zone. Otherwise it makes no sense to have so many mono-colored legends in a commander draft set, drafting mono-color is really unlikely under normal circumstances.

So that makes things a bit more interesting.

edit: and then I realize that the latest leak literally says that on the cards if I had just kept reading. What an amazing sleuth I am :poop:
Not sure how i feel about it. Having a non creature commander nice and all but it ONLY affects your commander. I would liek a backgriund that affects the board, otherwise it may lead into a voltron feel. For eample +3/+3, Flying, Deathtouch and ward 3. Fill up on weenie sand equipment that 4/4 subpar is now a 7/7 threat. that 6 turn clock just turned into a 3 turn cock. That 1/1 chump block now needs to fly. Toss on a sword or two and that 3 turn becomes a 2 turn or even a 1 turn if you have double strike as well.

That is the issue i have with this. They are also useless without the commander in play.

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Post by Serenade » 2 years ago

Unofficial Spoiler Discussion
I think the idea is a Voltron feel or just a general-centric deck. In theory…that's what this format is about!

I'll probably maximize them with partners like I would Bastion Protector. Something like Sythis or Tuvasa will appreciate the 10/10 one as a way to end games.
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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

Unofficial Spoiler Discussion
I dislike background. All these partner lite mechanics just remind me of the original and its crazy sense of possibility. I want to build a Tormod deck and want to use the second slot mainly for colour identity? I want to combine two cool CMR partners into a modular, yet consistent deck? I want to make C16 and CMR talk to each other and find some neat subtle synergies? I want to run two of the familiars because I can, dammit? All of that is available to me.

I can see why they chose to do it the way they did. Partner comes with a lot of baggage and it must have been easier in development to not have to worry about nearly a hundred pre-existing sliding pieces. Plus this way it looks fresh. Hey, an enchantment out of the command zone!

The leaks have felt rather middling to me so far, but credit where credit is due CMR left unfillable shoes behind. That set and its partner pool were honestly the most inspiring deck building bonanza I was exposed to since I picked up the format. I rarely build decks, and if so not more than one a set. I had four builds out of CMR, out of which two transitioned to paper. That is unprecedented.

The coolest card shown so far is Commander Liara Portyr and it's not even close. You get to do Boros things and get rewarded for it with ramp and draw. But then that creates an interesting dynamic within the deck itself, as you want stuff to be discounted by the trigger, yet also want to curve out early to have a potent slapping setup going by the time Liara lands. What to do? Interesting!
 
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Unofficial Spoiler Discussion
strong disagree. Coolest card is noble heritage. Turn my commander into Orzhov Advokist? Hell yes, that's one of my favourite cards of all time. I just hope there's a decent pairing option. It is a bummer that it doesn't protect your planeswalkers but at least you can't get Bojuka Bogged or whatever.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 2 years ago

Unofficial Spoiler Discussion
According to Gavin the first commander took like 5 years to make since they really wanted to make sure it was a good set and didn't do too much damage with the format. I was wondering how good this set would be since they basically started working on it in 2020 since covid made it so alimony no one got to go out and draft the set (as well as where some leftover ideas they had/wanted to use in Adventures in the Forgotten realms).So far to me the set feels like they purposely "under powered" but looking solid as a draft set. Partly why I think they made backgrounds instead using partner again, more self contained and don't have to make sure the new partners aren't broken/broken with another partner.

I'm bummed an Adventure commander popped up in a cross-over set but I'd rather not get the hate Chulane can get.

Edit- wanting to make a mono-red commander format matters theme and I'm loving backgrounds for that.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

I wish Veteran Ghoulcaller was a real card somehow. There's some seriously filthy things I would do with that effect.

I know nobody cares but I just bought and played the maestros and brokers precons so I figured I'd give a quick review.

Brokers has some cool cards (Aven Courier into Agent's Toolkit was pretty slick), but Perrie, the Pulverizer is just...so bad as a commander. It's so slow to do anything, and what it does is so mediocre. The shield counter is nice, but attacking and shield counters don't go GREAT together since it's easy to knock it off with a chump block, whereas a utility creature can become functionally indestructible with one since probably nobody wants to blow two removal spells. Kros was the commander I'm more interested in, but unfortunately I could only play 1v1 where Kros is...not so good. 2/5.

Maestros was a lot more fun. There are some pretty solid sac options, and some fun spells to copy. It kinda made me want to consider building Anhelo for reals, although certainly any moderately-optimized version of that list is probably going to be pretty OP where I'm playing. Best moment was when I Clone Legioned my opponents board twice...then did it again on the next turn (in retrospect I should have copied my own board the second time, but copying my opponents board 4x was easily sufficient to win). Probably one of the cooler precons I've played, 5/5.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Me: My Kess deck's goal is to cast as many Cruel Ultimatums as possible!
WotC: Zevlor, Elturel Exile?
Me: *heavy breathing*

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Post by folding_music » 2 years ago

Confiscation Coup with Zevlor also seems very funny <3 I haven't been looking at the spoilers for cmr2 but I like everything official so far apart from Minsc being a planeswalker

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

I have mixed feelings right now. Vanguard Suppressor looks like it shouldn't be a magic card. I can't verbalize how much I just want to cast Blood for the Blood God!

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Venedrex
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Post by Venedrex » 2 years ago

I posted on my thread about how excited I am about squad, but I'll post here too. I know it's basically just multikicker (insert everything is just kicker or horsemanship) but it is fantastic for a custom set idea I've been stewing on since I joined here.

One of the big problems I was having was how to spell out a mechanic that was able to make tokens of a particular creature type without being too convoluted, and I had eventually settled on just having all the creatures pay extra mana to make copies of themselves. (The creature type mattered because there was going to be lots of tribal synergies but a different main tribe for each faction, but only one mechanic.)

Squad is confirmation for me that the concept of copying the creature is good enough and OK balance wise for a mechanic. Also it saves effort and confusion, and the name is purposefully generic so it can go in the set. So, slam dunk happiness for me. Time to start dreaming up what three color factions would be cool for an RTS themed set.
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Post by Dragonlover » 2 years ago

Love the cards, hate the cute ability words thing.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

I'm pretty sure blood for the blood god is bad. That many dead creatures is a ton, and draw + damage is always a janky combo since direct damage is a "let's end the game right now" thing and drawing cards is a "let's drag this out" thing. It's nice that it doesn't recycle enemy hands too, but considering how much harder this is to pull off, it doesn't seem worth it, at all. Niche at best.

Vanguard suppressor seems okay but also not exciting. At every cost there are way more efficient draw engines. I guess there's value in splitting it across bodies but it looks pretty casual-tier to me.

Abaddon looks like a worse, harder to use Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder. Which, design-wise, I kinda like, but cascade never really appealed to me in the first place.

Overall I hope the rest of this set is similarly low-powered because I really don't want to be pushed to use any of these cards.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

The starcraft player in me is psyched for warhammer
While 40k is not starcraft did rip it off. Zerg was obviously ripoff of tyranids and everyone already knows terran ripped off the space marines.

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Dragoon
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Post by Dragoon » 2 years ago

I'm more excited about the Warhammer release than I initially anticipated. Chaos, Necrons AND Tyranids? Those are my three favourite factions! (Granted, I only played the Dawn of War series and not the miniatures game).
DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
I'm pretty sure blood for the blood god is bad. That many dead creatures is a ton, and draw + damage is always a janky combo since direct damage is a "let's end the game right now" thing and drawing cards is a "let's drag this out" thing. It's nice that it doesn't recycle enemy hands too, but considering how much harder this is to pull off, it doesn't seem worth it, at all. Niche at best.
The fact that it's an instant means that it can more easily follow a board wipe though, which is nice. It's nowhere near the level of an auto-include, but I don't think it's bad.
DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Abaddon looks like a worse, harder to use Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder. Which, design-wise, I kinda like, but cascade never really appealed to me in the first place.
Unlike Yidris though, he doesn't need to deal damage himself. The fact that he counts all life lost and not just damage means that it shouldn't be that hard to "turn on", even for 6 or 7 MV spells.

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
I'm pretty sure blood for the blood god is bad. That many dead creatures is a ton, and draw + damage is always a janky combo since direct damage is a "let's end the game right now" thing and drawing cards is a "let's drag this out" thing. It's nice that it doesn't recycle enemy hands too, but considering how much harder this is to pull off, it doesn't seem worth it, at all. Niche at best.
Amusingly, it is perfect for my high CMC deck. It's 10+ CMC and can be cast for dramatically less than that. The deck operates as closer to a burn deck so the face damage is relevant (heeello Vial Smasher the Fierce for 19 to someone).. The deck is also full to the brim of dead draws, so pitching my hand to refill is usually extremely worth. Also, when I cast it I get to say "Blood for the blood god!" which is one of the most awesome sentences ever.

That deck's mana curve keeps getting worse and worse. I love it. I mean they just printed another 15cmc with Shadow of Mortality. Last night with Protection Racket I got to ask "Do you want to take 15 damage or can I draw Autochthon Wurm?" One of the my favorite trigger resolutions of my life.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Dragoon wrote:
2 years ago
The fact that it's an instant means that it can more easily follow a board wipe though, which is nice. It's nowhere near the level of an auto-include, but I don't think it's bad.
So you're hoping your opponents play a board wipe AND there's a bunch of creatures in play AND you have RRBB+ available AND your hand isn't that great?

Yeah seems bad. I'm sure there are decks that want to use it, but not many.
Unlike Yidris though, he doesn't need to deal damage himself. The fact that he counts all life lost and not just damage means that it shouldn't be that hard to "turn on", even for 6 or 7 MV spells.
Yes but I think that's overall going to be harder to do. Plus he costs more and cuts you off from a color. Dealing damage with spells is going to cut into your payoff, so you'd probably want to build him with unblockables or direct-damage creatures/planeswalkers/etc. Could be a fun build but I'm not interested in playing with these cards.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Guardman
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Post by Guardman » 2 years ago

I know nothing about Warhammer 40,000 other than there is apparently a war and 40,000 hammers. But after how pleasantly surprised I was by Adventures in the Forgotten Realms (considering I know almost nothing about D&D) I am cautiously optimistic. At the very least, Squad seems like my type mechanic.
Last edited by Guardman 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Yeah, I'm generally happy with the 40k spoilers so far. Cards looks fun, and lots of good 40k flavor.
  • Blood for the Blood God! (skulls for the skull throne!) looks delightful - obviously a bit expensive if you want to cast it and a Damnation in the same turn, but instant-speed, one-sided Wheel of Fortune is pretty good, especially if you have Vial Smasher the Fierce or another payoff for big spells. If you can benefit from someone else wiping the board (or you just have a sac outlet), then all the better.
  • Abaddon the Despoiler is a new source of cascaaaaade, one of my favorite mechanics - and also one of the most chaotic, which seems fitting.
  • Vanguard Suppressor doesn't excite me quite as much, but squad seems like a solid mechanic that scales well into the lategame.
(I'll also call out the Weathered Wayfarer reprint as something that pleases me from Double Masters 2)

Wallycaine
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Post by Wallycaine » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Dragoon wrote:
2 years ago
The fact that it's an instant means that it can more easily follow a board wipe though, which is nice. It's nowhere near the level of an auto-include, but I don't think it's bad.
So you're hoping your opponents play a board wipe AND there's a bunch of creatures in play AND you have RRBB+ available AND your hand isn't that great?

Yeah seems bad. I'm sure there are decks that want to use it, but not many.
Unlike Yidris though, he doesn't need to deal damage himself. The fact that he counts all life lost and not just damage means that it shouldn't be that hard to "turn on", even for 6 or 7 MV spells.
Yes but I think that's overall going to be harder to do. Plus he costs more and cuts you off from a color. Dealing damage with spells is going to cut into your payoff, so you'd probably want to build him with unblockables or direct-damage creatures/planeswalkers/etc. Could be a fun build but I'm not interested in playing with these cards.
I mean, "have Zulaport Cutthroat effect, sac some dudes" seems like an easier setup than "connect with a specific 5 power trampler that's got a target on it's head" to me, but I could be wrong. 2 dudes gets you X equalling 6, which seems like a decent amount.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Wallycaine wrote:
2 years ago
I mean, "have Zulaport Cutthroat effect, sac some dudes" seems like an easier setup than "connect with a specific 5 power trampler that's got a target on it's head" to me, but I could be wrong. 2 dudes gets you X equalling 6, which seems like a decent amount.
I guess we could compare the number of zulaport effects to the number of equipment/auras/etc that make something unblockable (enough). I'm pretty sure the number comes down heavily on the side of the latter.

They also don't lock you nearly as strongly into an archetype - your "easier setup" requires one of a couple specific drain effects, plus a repeatable sac outlet, plus sackable dudes. You've pretty much restricted yourself to a single strategy by that point.

Either Yidris has a target on its head because it's a stronger card than abaddon (fair enough, he is, but that's my point), or abaddon will have the same sized target - plus all the other bits and pieces you're using to set him up which can be removal magnets in their own right.
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Post by Dragoon » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
So you're hoping your opponents play a board wipe AND there's a bunch of creatures in play AND you have RRBB+ available AND your hand isn't that great?
If they wipe the board, it's probably because it's filled of creatures anyway. Keeping three mana open should not be too difficult for a reactive deck. And my hand has to be very good if drawing eight cards is not an attractive option, not to mention setting up graveyard shenanigans. Again, not an auto-include, but far from a bad card IMO.
DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Yes but I think that's overall going to be harder to do. Plus he costs more and cuts you off from a color. Dealing damage with spells is going to cut into your payoff, so you'd probably want to build him with unblockables or direct-damage creatures/planeswalkers/etc. Could be a fun build but I'm not interested in playing with these cards.
Connecting with Yidris is in my experience difficult if you don't have some kind of voltron package. Abaddon can just let you play a normal deck for the most part. If you intend to win through combat or life drain or anything of the sort, Abaddon is probably a better choice, unless you want to go full voltron.

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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Dragoon wrote:
2 years ago
If they wipe the board, it's probably because it's filled of creatures anyway. Keeping three mana open should not be too difficult for a reactive deck. And my hand has to be very good if drawing eight cards is not an attractive option, not to mention setting up graveyard shenanigans. Again, not an auto-include, but far from a bad card IMO.
I misread BftBGT as 8BBRR, so it's not as bad as I thought, but I'd still say it fits into niche and/or low-power lists.

Speaking off the cuff here, but I think a willingness to discard your hand for a new one is a signal that your deck and/or play is not strong. A deck should be able to keep its hand reasonably full most of the time, and a player should be using the tools in their hand to maneuver towards a win, especially in longer games like casual commander where you'll usually have plenty of time to sculpt your plan. Personally I think drawing a whole new hand - even +1 card - would frequently be disruptive because the cards I've kept in my hand are the ones I'm saving for the right opportunity - the wincons I'm saving for when people are tapped out, the counterspells to protect my crucial value engine, the removal to disrupt an enemy plan. Not always true, of course, but it's just another conditional layer around the card being good. Of course, most people playing commander aren't really working from a strong plan, so at a casual skill level the card will probably play okay, though the other conditions still need to be met. Personally I've found cards that rely on an enemy board wipe to not be worth it.
Connecting with Yidris is in my experience difficult if you don't have some kind of voltron package. Abaddon can just let you play a normal deck for the most part. If you intend to win through combat or life drain or anything of the sort, Abaddon is probably a better choice, unless you want to go full voltron.
Full voltron? All you need is Shizo, Death's Storehouse and you're probably good. It can be difficult insofar as Yidris is a powerful scary commander that people want to kill, but if Abaddon is good (and despite being weaker than Yidris, he's still pretty good) he'll draw a similar degree of hate.

Even if a deck is planning to win via incremental combat (i.e. not all at once at the end, usually the more reliable choice), I don't like having my wincon and my value tied together in that way. If the time isn't right to attack, I don't want to be forced to attack in order to advance my board state, because if I'm making bad attacks I'm more likely to fall further behind. Running unblockables and direct damage can largely circumvent this by avoiding situations where attacks are bad, but then you're doing a build-around - and not one that can be achieved by simply having any single one of a thousand different evasion-granting effects.
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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 2 years ago

Are we getting Universes Within versions of these cards? BftBG! has a tremendous Cult of Rakdos feel.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 years ago

I think the kind of decks that want BftBG also want ways to fill their graveyard, but it's not the staple some are making it out to be beyond graveyardy rakdos decks.

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