Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[pokken]

Yeah legitimately the biggest frustration in my breena deck is people not understanding the ability no matter how many times I explain it and refusing to acknowledge it because they don't get it. It's at least one person per game lol. Not because they strategically don't want counters on my stuff they just flat don't get it.

I've tried like pointing it out but it gets tiresome.

[kirkusjones]

That's odd, because I don't find Breena that confusing. Must be different brain wiring, I guess.

[Venedrex]

I bring news from the womb!
Don't read if you don't like unofficial leaks.

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A massive Baldur's Gate leak just hit, and it's all over basically every spoiler site.

[folding_music]

Riveteers Requisitioner

like him <3 some of my fave creature types, haste, all the fun stuff. think it's better in sixty-card, though... decks with 4x requisitioner, 4x Impulsive Pilferer will do a bunch <3 for those of us without Ragavans etc. i'm afraid my entire buylist from this set is 4 requisitioners and a getaway car

(actually looking forward to CMR2 and won't be spoiling myself on it!)

[DirkGently]

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I gotta say, the leaks so far aren't blowing me away.

Assuming I understand how initiative works it seems kinda bad for the format. Unless they're constantly revisiting it, it'll eventually become obscure and then you can be almost guaranteed to keep it forever once you have it. Like how horsemanship is just unblockable.

The background thing I don't get. Do you cast them first then pick one on etb? If so, playing more than probably one seems real bad.

Idk though, I was skeptical of cmr and it was amazing so I'll try to keep an open mind.

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[BeneTleilax]

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Initiative works like the Monarch, except you Venture instead of draw. It's gimmicky monarch, and I don't love it, but I doubt it's going to become OP. I'm just relieved that they didn't add a new dungeon that other cards could defacto venture to, and make them more wish-adjacent.

[DirkGently]

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Initiative works like the Monarch, except you Venture instead of draw. It's gimmicky monarch, and I don't love it, but I doubt it's going to become OP. I'm just relieved that they didn't add a new dungeon that other cards could defacto venture to, and make them more wish-adjacent.

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ah ok, so it's still stolen via combat damage? That alleviates my concern then. Although yeah I do find the dungeons a bit gimmicky.

Btw leak tags work better than spoilers imo

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[RxPhantom]

Dominaria United can't get here fast enough. I have a strong dislike for D&D in Magic, so CL2 isn't speaking to me. New Capenna has some cool stuff, but they went nuts with treasures and the flavor ended up being pretty one-note. And after such a banger like NEO. *sigh*

[pokken]

I have a strong dislike for D&D in Magic

I am pretty surprised by how jarring I find the D&D stuff, especially the dice rolling mechanic. Like my brain doesn't even want to acknowledge cards that roll dice for some reason.

[folding_music]

god, I love the dice rolling stuff and dungeon delving stuff from AFR, it suits me so well. bad fit for commander but luckily there's freer ways to play the game. AFR also being a fairly lax power level helped it in my eyes, very hard to get quick kills just using cards from the set. plus dice rolling mixes up the solo-play stuff I've been working on

i do prefer ad&d-era to the 5th ed. stuff this is based on but the flavour still suits me, hoping cmr2 doesn't diverge too far.

yes I am interested in CMR2 for formats besides commander lol

[BeneTleilax]

I hate dice-rolling a lot less than I thought I would, because they dialed down the "casual players like cards that can blow up in their faces for no reason" mindset that previously afflicted similar designs. I hope they keep that, and the dice roll only decides the extent of an upside, rather than whether there's an upside or a punishment. That said, yeah, I'm pretty cool on a D&D set, especially because they seem to go out of their way to make the cards look and read like D&D adverts rather than extensions of MtG.

[RxPhantom]

I have a strong dislike for D&D in Magic

I am pretty surprised by how jarring I find the D&D stuff, especially the dice rolling mechanic. Like my brain doesn't even want to acknowledge cards that roll dice for some reason.

Same! I see that Roll a D20 text, and I don't even finish reading. It wasn't just the die rolling. I found the flavor words off-putting and the aesthetic boring. Rarely does a set completely flop for me. I like that others like it, but I really didn't appeal to me at all.

EDIT: How did I not mention dungeons?! You have to do so much work to achieve the most boring, underpowered payoffs. And you need visual aids to do it. Blech.

[Lifeless]

We play commander now with our DM and he's a massive D&D lore nerd so it's going to be hard to keep him away from this stuff. At least we should be getting some significantly more powerful cards since a lot of Forgotten Realms was meh. As far as I'm concerned all this stuff can be safely quarantined in our D&D cube where it belongs.

[BeneTleilax]

Well, Angelic Sleuth goes right into Zabaz. Sadly, it's not an artifact itself, but it should make at least a clue a turn and the deck always more on-theme draw. Damning Verdict too, love more one-sided wraths.

[TheGildedGoose]

Body Count is going to be ridiculous in Nethroi. Why yes, I'll poke you with my Clattering Augur to trigger Spectacle and proceed to draw 12 for one black mana after looping my board twice. Winmore? Maybe, but instant also makes opposing board wipes into opportunities.

[BeneTleilax]

Body Count is going to be ridiculous in Nethroi. Why yes, I'll poke you with my Clattering Augur to trigger Spectacle and proceed to draw 12 for one black mana after looping my board twice. Winmore? Maybe, but instant also makes opposing board wipes into opportunities.

I still like Liliana's Standard Bearer better for this effect, on account of it coming with a body. Still, cool to see more versions of this effect.

[TheGildedGoose]

Body Count is going to be ridiculous in Nethroi. Why yes, I'll poke you with my Clattering Augur to trigger Spectacle and proceed to draw 12 for one black mana after looping my board twice. Winmore? Maybe, but instant also makes opposing board wipes into opportunities.

I still like Liliana's Standard Bearer better for this effect, on account of it coming with a body. Still, cool to see more versions of this effect.

I actually completely forgot this card existed. And it's clampable? Damn. Nevermind, disregard my opinion on Body Count.

[BeneTleilax]

I actually completely forgot this card existed. And it's clampable? Damn. Nevermind, disregard my opinion on Body Count.

Everyone sleeps on this card it's bizarre. I remember when it got released there was a bunch of hype about how it should go in every Bx deck to recover from wraths, and even whether it was ban-worthy. Then the predictable disappointment set in, as this effect is not worth a card in most Bx decks, or even most incremental/classic aristocrats or stax decks. In big-turn versions of aristocrats that want to sacrifice and loop their whole board at once though, this wins games and fuels combo.

[Arebennian]

How does Plumb the Forbidden fit into a ranking with Liliana's Standard Bearer and Body Count.

Above both?

[TheGildedGoose]

How does Plumb the Forbidden fit into a ranking with Liliana's Standard Bearer and Body Count.

Above both?

Well, Plumb the Forbidden is a sac outlet, too, so I'm giving it a shot in Nethroi and it's performed admirably. I actually cut Krav, the Unredeemed for it.I would say they look similar on paper but play out differently in practice, at least they would in my deck.

[Gashnaw]

I find Bootlegger's Stash to be pretty busted. I mean it basically doubling your lands and filtering the mana. if your deck runs green this is a must have.

[Cyberium]

Resourceful Defense is pretty crazy with what it can do. It can put ability counters on non-creatures permanents, while grabbing counters from any permanent that leaves the play, including blinked permanents. I can already see the mayhem it can cause in Aminatou, the Fateshifter and Brago, King Eternal.

[Hawk]

Trying to brew around Syrix, Carrier of the Flame. We got a phoenix tribal commander and it's fascinating...

- I'm sure there's an infinite with Syrix + Skyfire Phoenix + some combination of Pitiless Plunderer, Thermopod, Phyrexian Altar, Ashnod's Altar, and Mana Echoes, possibly with some cost reducers stacked on like Heartless Summoning or Bontu's Monument but...it's a lot.

- I'm more interested in that first line of text. By base, an EoT Lightning Bolt for manipulating your 'yard is pretty good. The biggest phoenixes are Aurora Phoenix and Immortal Phoenix and that gets us to a massive 5 damage. Taurean Mauler also seems good, and I'm always down for an excuse to slam Mauler.

- It's each end step too, and it just requires you to have a creature "leave" the graveyard. So lots of room to use stuff like Reassembling Skeleton or Scrabbling Claws or what have you in addition to the obvious button of reanimating your cards or looping Persist/Undying critters.

[Arebennian]

I find Bootlegger's Stash to be pretty busted. I mean it basically doubling your lands and filtering the mana. if your deck runs green this is a must have.

Nah. Card is a trap.

You're never really doubling your mana, as you have to tap the land to create the treasure. You'll get as many treasures as you have lands. It sort of stores mana for you: it doesn't really double it.

So it's tap out for 6 treasures (if you have 6 lands out) to play out the Bootlegger's Stash. Then, next turn, you untap and then tapout for 6 treasures, which you could have just tapped your lands for anyway. That is two turns to end up exactly where you were. It is only the turn later, on the third turn, when you have doubled your mana.

It's much less a Mirari's Wake than it is an Upwelling or a Horizon Stone.

[Hawk]

I find Bootlegger's Stash to be pretty busted. I mean it basically doubling your lands and filtering the mana. if your deck runs green this is a must have.

Nah. Card is a trap.

You're never really doubling your mana, as you have to tap the land to create the treasure. You'll get as many treasures as you have lands. It sort of stores mana for you: it doesn't really double it.

So it's tap out for 6 treasures (if you have 6 lands out) to play out the Bootlegger's Stash. Then, next turn, you untap and then tapout for 6 treasures, which you could have just tapped your lands for anyway. That is two turns to end up exactly where you were. It is only the turn later, on the third turn, when you have doubled your mana.

It's much less a Mirari's Wake than it is an Upwelling or a Horizon Stone.

Big agree - I think the card seems bad unless you are deep on the artifact/treasure synergies (or deep on token doublers). By base this is a you-only Upwelling + Prismatic Omen which is fine I guess, but at six mana you could also just Mana Reflection?

There's potential here don't get me wrong - this card is the strongest, safest version of this effect we've gotten yet. It gets sorta nutty with Doubling Season/Parallel Lives effects, gets nutty with cards for a Jolene, the Plunder Queen deck like Jolene and Xorn, is funny with Academy Manufactor, and is powerful with Seedborn Muse and Wilderness Reclamation. But that's a list of cards that either A) are among the strongest engine cards in the game already or B) require dedication to specifically Treasure Tribal. The card is fun there, but not a staple by any means.