[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Tymaret, the Murder King

[Outcryqq]

I've lost a number of times to Helix Pinnacle in my buddy's Omnath, Locus of Mana deck. Ew.

[onering]

This is one of the least offensive alt win cards, perhaps the only one that doesn't feel like a cheesy win but like actually playing magic. Probably because its tied directly to mana, it differs little from Torment of Hailfire or Exsanguinate where X is a lot, except being a lot more mana and being able to be paid in installments. Either someone lands it and pumps mana into it over a number of turns, or they go off with infinite mana and do it all at once. In either case, they have to survive at least one turn, more in the former case, protect it as their wincon, and dump a game winning amount of mana into it. If they win with it, they could have won with something else, and it felt like they were playing magic. And I have seen it win, both via infinite mana combo and from big mana control, and from big mana decks when the table just couldn't find an answer fast enough. I think its viable enough to be worth aiming for, yet not so strong as to feel cheap, so getting the win with it feels special but is reasonably achievable.

[Dragonlover]

I have not yet won with this in Golos. Mainly due to always having to do something else on any given turn. I like it as a fire and forget card though that I can just chuck spare mana at. Also it doesn't need a support package so doesn't take up further slots.

Dragonlover

[pokken]

The one time I ever saw someone get close to winning with this another player killed it with a hasted Steel Hellkite at the last minute. It was epic.

[DirkGently]

Oh good, I can talk about a somewhat frustrating game I played the other day - a guy was playing Kruphix, God of Horizons and basically doing exactly what you'd expect - a lot of ramp, a lot of draw, some extra turns for good measure. I'm playing MBC so I basically have no way to interact with any of this stuff. I know he's the threat but I can't really do anything about it except punch him. Got him down to 10, but he untaps with 30+ mana, casts a big draw spell, an extra turn spell, untaps and floats mana with Wilderness Reclamation, untaps with even more, casts another X draw spell, and that's the point where I started scooping up my cards.

Anyway, the part that was annoying is that afterwards he says "this is my fun deck, the only way it can win is with Helix Pinnacle." Dude, when you're drawing out your deck and playing unlimited extra turns it really doesn't matter what your wincon is. Helix pinnacle is exactly as effective as Thassa's Oracle. The only reason I'd stick around to actually see what your stupid wincon is would be pure masochism. Idk what part of that goldfishing is supposed to be "fun".

Anyway helix pinnacle is fine I guess. I think people see it as a fun casual wincon, but it can drive your deck towards doing unfun things if you're not vigilant, because winning fairly with it is really hard.

[Mookie]

Helix Pinnacle is nifty. I don't think I've ever seen someone win with it, but I've certainly seen some good attempts. Shrouded enchantments are certainly tricky to kill, but they definitely seem to be easier to kill than indestructible ones - enough noncreature board wipes exist in the format that this will usually be dealt with when its controller starts to get close to winning. Steel Hellkite, Pernicious Deed, Austere Command, Merciless Eviction, Cyclonic Rift... lots of options.

As alternative win conditions go, Helix Pinnacle is pretty fair. Shroud means you can't get a fast win with Gilder Bairn or Vorel of the Hull Clade. It triggers on upkeep, giving your opponents at least one turn cycle to deal with it, even if you have access to infinite mana. And of course, 100 mana is... a lot. It's usually going to be better to spend that mana on anything else, but if you're willing to burn that much mana for no value, I don't think it's bad to let you win.

Anyway, Helix Pinnacle is a fine choice for big mana decks like Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant // Sasaya's Essence and Omnath, Locus of Mana. It also has some niche synergies in decks that care about X costs, such as Zaxara, the Exemplary (although it doesn't trigger Zaxara itself).

[Hermes_]

I've lost a number of times to Helix Pinnacle in my buddy's Omnath, Locus of Mana deck. Ew.

I was just thinking would be interesting in a 99 forest omanth deck, but then it would be 98 forest lol

[Crazy Monkey]

Helix Pinnacle has been a longtime inclusion in Patron of the Orochi for me. Best combination has been Rings of Brighthearth to reduce the required mana from 100 to 52, putting it easily in reach when untapping all my mana sources 2 times/turn. With 10 mana in green creatures and forests and rings, each turn generates 28 mana and 52 tower counters. Between my turn and one opponent's that's 100.

It can't win out of nowhere due to being an upkeep trigger, but requires a response most of the time it's cast.

[kraus911]

Alt win cons are fun, both when I play them and play against them, in the same vein that combo is fun - when it still feels like the game is a battle with back and forth as opposed to an "oops I win all the stuff you guys were doing is completely pointless". This one as a looming threat on the table is fun because it challenges the other players to deal with it or lose. Flashed in with infinite mana and counter back up it's more like, if you were done playing the game why not just scoop and go get a beverage? I always tell people if I have alt win cons or combo in my deck because if they don't know how my deck can win what's the point in having a game? "Oh there's this thing called check mate and it's how you actually win this game and, by the way, check mate." I know some people hedge about giving away the secret of how their deck works, but if it works through combo or an alt win con I think the only viable way for you to "win" with those cards is to let people know that's your strategy. They'll know game two anyways.

I've played against Oloro decks where I've asked, do you win through Test of Endurance or that cat? and they respond "wait and find out." Nah, just kill them first.

My gripe about politics aside, I do like alt win cons and this one is "usually" fun.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Anyway, the part that was annoying is that afterwards he says "this is my fun deck, the only way it can win is with Helix Pinnacle." Dude, when you're drawing out your deck and playing unlimited extra turns it really doesn't matter what your wincon is. Helix pinnacle is exactly as effective as Thassa's Oracle. The only reason I'd stick around to actually see what your stupid wincon is would be pure masochism. Idk what part of that goldfishing is supposed to be "fun".

This x1000. I've realized over time that a certain subsection of the playerbase just fundamentally doesn't understand casual play. I walked away from a game the other day when a friend of a friend brought Baral Counterspell tribal to game night as his excuse for a casual deck, declares "scooping is the wincon!" and when called on that asshat behavior, doubles back that "it isn't like it's a cedh deck, waaaaa...". Seriously, why do you think anyone wants to experience that? Either we gang up on you immediately and you feel singled out, or we draw this out and let you make everyone miserable by trapping us in a 5 hour non-game without any threats resolving. Either way, the inevitable result is not fun. Some people just can't grok what makes casual play enjoyable for whatever reason and there's plenty of noncedh decks that are still pure cancer despite not being competively viable.

Consider your opponents when deckbuilding. If it seems miserable to play against, it probably is. And unless your group is overtly down for that level of masochism, why bother?

Edit: oh yeah. Helix pinnacle. It's okay, I guess. Lots of ways to win for less than 101 mana though.

Edit2: spelling

[Rumpy5897]

Consider your opponents when deckbuilding.

This, times a million. Do as you would be done by. Once I finally learned this properly, the quality and enjoyment of the group's games went way up.

As for Helix Pinnacle, it reminds me of Sisay shrines. The sort of wincon that needs a crazy, purring mana engine behind it to carry its inefficiency, like that deck that Dirk encountered with it. I've been playing Patron of the Orochi for years, and I've never been tempted to run Pinnacle. And this is coming from a deck that rocks the full set of Planar Portal variants, and isn't averse to using Staff of Domination without infinites.

[toctheyounger]

Anyway, the part that was annoying is that afterwards he says "this is my fun deck, the only way it can win is with Helix Pinnacle." Dude, when you're drawing out your deck and playing unlimited extra turns it really doesn't matter what your wincon is. Helix pinnacle is exactly as effective as Thassa's Oracle. The only reason I'd stick around to actually see what your stupid wincon is would be pure masochism. Idk what part of that goldfishing is supposed to be "fun".

Yeah that ain't fun. I've had this happen a number of times with various goldfish combo scenarios and I never stick around. People are often dumbfounded. They're like 'why don't you stick around to see what happens?' The answer is because it's the equivalent of watching someone play my bass instead of having a jam myself. There's no interaction from me and that's what people don't get. If you're going off, I've no skin in the game and there's nothing to keep me from leaving, so I am not going to stay.

Anyway, Helix is fine. There's easier ways to win in green, and although I can respect the dedication to generating that much mana for a slow-payoff win it's not interesting to me.

[hyalopterouslemur]

This and Epic Struggle have value in token decks when your opponent restricts your ability to attack. Purph is better tho. This relies on your ability to generate a ton of mana, which normally goes to Ant Queen and the like.

[3drinks]

I've lost a number of times to Helix Pinnacle in my buddy's Omnath, Locus of Mana deck. Ew.

I was just thinking would be interesting in a 99 forest omanth deck, but then it would be 98 forest lol

LOST IN THE WOODS.dek GO GO GO!

[Yatsufusa]

Let's just say I'm thankful that "The List" let me acquire a foil cheaper than even the original nonfoil.

Helix Pinnacle was like the first card I thought of when I was thinking of alternate wincons for my creature-cardless Freyalise deck, so I didn't have to solely rely on token beatdown, although I supposed that was also because I always had an original nonfoil (before I replaced it with "The List" foil). Sure, I don't think I actually won with it (the fact I can't remember sort of reinforces that I probably didn't ever), but it's like the most flexible alternate win-con out there.

Being a one mana enchantment with shroud makes it mighty easy to slot in (although I really should math it as an "X-spell" when it comes to CMC calculations), opponents see you have to jump through hoops and wait a turn cycle to win, but in exchange it's annoying to get rid of and if you get rid of it before I decide to have to focus my resources on it, chances is you're spending more effort to get rid of what is effectively a one-mana do-nothing enchantment I only spent excess mana on.

[folding_music]

I love alternate win-cons but, uh, not this one. stuff like Happily Ever After is a real risk and gamble to attempt; Biovisionary is a joy to make work in a highlander format. this is just a thing that lurks in play in yr Naya group hug deck and lets you buy your way out of the game, sort of like a conclusion thief rather than a conclusion? Just my take on it

[3drinks]

Wednesday, June 9th, 2021; Sundering Stroke

[Sinis]

Wednesday, June 9th, 2021; Sundering Stroke

I wanted this to be good, but it's pretty bad. 7 mana is a lot, and 7 damage is often not a lot, certainly not to three targets.

Honourable mention to Irencrag Feat, which enables this.

[Sinis]

Wednesday, June 9th, 2021; Sundering Stroke

I wanted this to be good, but it's pretty bad. 7 mana is a lot, and 7 damage is often not a lot, certainly not to three targets.

Honourable mention to Irencrag Feat, which enables this.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

The art is pretty badass imo. I love the trace of the sword-slash and the feeling of immediacy in the gore. However, once you take artistic perspective/depth into account, you realize that lady must be Sephiroth or something because that sword must be 12-15 ft long (~4-5m). Her poor wrists.

Oh, and the card itself sucks. Even the top end with all that red mana is pretty mediocre freaking awful.

EDIT: Oh my god, it's a sorcery.

[Serenade]

Super-adamant remains an idea to reward monocolor decks in this format.

[EonAon]

This is what I like to call the 6+ mana jank that WOTC just cannot step away from in red. There are 6+cc cards in red that can do alot of lifting, but they are predominantly not the norm. This is in the somewhat playable category verse others in that it could be relevant in some cases but the quantifiers mean its total junk overall unless your playing something like skred red and this was the only choice.

[Mookie]

Sundering Stroke is... very expensive. I guess seven damage to three targets is a good rate for seven mana - compare Jaya's Immolating Inferno and Comet Storm.... except those spells scale significantly better, to both larger and smaller amounts of mana. Another awkward point is that it requires red mana specifically, so you can't ramp into it with Sol Ring, Worn Powerstone, or other colorless mana rocks.

Anyway, I like the idea of rewarding monocolor decks, but this is just a miss.

[Hawk]

Red is sometimes hard up for removal, but not this hard up. If you want removal, you always want it as cheap as possible - Abrade and Chaos Warp are the red staples, and them from there you make lots of sacrifices if you want any other removal. Do you pay through the nose for reliability from stuff like Aftershock, Fissure, Scour from Existence, or Meteor Golem? Do you cheap out and risk not being able to actually kill stuff with Lightning Bolt, Mizzium Mortars, Magmatic Sinkhole, Roast, etc? Heck, this can be up against actual boardwipes like Blasphemous Act and Star of Extinction so that's a hard sell too.

But you sure don't want this. At 7 mana I'd rather have the reliability of those colorless spells or the flexibility of Crackle with Power and Comet Storm (and I don't even think those are auto-includes not even in mono-red). This is just not good, and abysmal outside of monored.

[hyalopterouslemur]

Cone of Flame exists. So does Comet Storm. At 7, if things are really bad, there's Inferno and Earthquake. Blasphemous Act has more, but affinity for creatures. (Especially if one of them is Stuffy Doll.)

I'm not playing this for trinket text.