Best Commander/Colors for a Political Deck?

[kraus911]

New Capenna is flush with political cards and I'm curious what you all think.

To me a political deck works at some level to leverage the psychology of a group game, working outside the boundaries of 1 v 1 magic. Usually a win is achieved through keeping a high life total while others chip away at each other, or prolonging the game so you can get to your combo/lock/whatever wincon.

There's force/encourage opponents to attack each other decks. Thantis, the Warweaver and Marisi, Breaker of the Coil are two heavy hitters there, Gahiji, Honored One is probably a little lower on the list. Naya and Jund both seem to have decent options.

There's balance resources type decks, giving gifts and playing symmetrical effects. Good ol' Phelddagrif and Zedruu the Greathearted can do that well.

Then there's the table cop, not giving out resources and goading combat as much as stopping the haymakers and making a fair game of it for everyone. Sometimes this is a kingmaker deck and sometimes this is a combo deck and sometimes a grindfest of a deck. I think of esper and orzhov here but no particular commanders pop to mind.

To me the fun of politics is letting the moves you make influence players more than "let's make a DEAL!" (which kinda drives me nuts). I'm more about the influence gained by saving someone from an alpha strike with your fog than promising not to attack. Anyways, discuss...

[DirkGently]

Phelddagrif.

Zedruu isn't really political imo. What are you giving away where people are actually grateful to you? Every Zedruu list I've seen gives away worthless junk, or at absolute most a land. And if you're giving away 6-drops that seems hideously bad and inefficient, so I really can't see it making any sense politically.

Thantis makes everyone attack which will probably annoy them into attacking you and/or killing thantis, in my experience.

Marisi isn't really political either. He's not manipulating psychology, he's just forcing your opponents to attack each other. That's like saying you're a chessmaster because you broke your opponents arms.

Gahiji at least motivates your opponents to attack each other while not just making them do it. But you're probably using him the most effectively so people probably see him more as a threat than a boon.

Phelddagrif has been the most political commander printed since alliances and frankly nothing comes close. He's unthreatening yet capable of creating a lot of resources, can manipulate the board state in multiple ways, and is a terrible removal target as well as a reliable (if slow - which is to his benefit for enemy threat assessment) wincon. He's also in excellent colors for control pieces to block any kind of nonsense under the sun.

So, Phelddagrif.

[folding_music]

from the new decks, Parnesse makes sense as a political commander but is underpowered. i like the theme plus grixis is such a strong color combo but their abilities are curiously oldschool and don't do much without serious external support - forks n strixhaven spells and those new Casualty instants with horrible flavor. my experience of playing passively in casual, being the anti-kingmaker and disenchanter of wincons usually didn't lead me towards casting a Mana Leak variant that made me sac my commander =P usually you'd want flexible spells like confluences and other modal things on at least dromar's charm power level, stuff that makes you draw three cards, pit trap-style artifact bombs eg. Nevy's Disk, Powder Keg and mass bounce effects used retaliatorily; Parnesse's unwritten alliance with Casualty makes her worse than when played as a good stuff deck with forks you actually like. that's just from glancing at the card and thinking, though, no testing

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Dirk is right. If you want to really challenge your ability to realpolitik beyond your card effects, streamline your control game, and experience victories that feel truly %$#% earned, I can recommend no better deck.

Plus you get to hang out over in Dirk's primer with me, Goose, and Hawk, what more could you possibly want?

[3drinks]

Pramikon, Sky Rampart, so you can build a wall. /badjoke

[Hawk]

Short answer: Phelddagrif .

Long Answer: You should read and follow Dirkgently's absolutely brilliant primer, Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Strength, here on these very forums. It is in my opinion one of the most fascinating, insightful, and well-written primers on not just that commander but politics in EDH ever written. Even if you don't intend to play the hippo itself many of the principles in that primer are just really solid for playing politics in modern EDH. In particular, "be invisible, and don't be invincible" is like rule one of EDH Politics to me now.

The non-Cult of Hippo Answer: It occurs to me that my second and third-favorite "political treatises" out there center around Tariel, Reckoner of Souls (rachmiel's Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This over on MTGSally) and Queen Marchesa (precociousapprentice's Queen Marchesa Primer over on TappedOut). The common denominator here, actually, is W. I think white is an imporant commander politics color because...

• It has the most efficient point-removal in the game in Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile
• It can answer any permanent type if need be, thanks to cards like Oblation and Generous Gift
• It has the most and best boardwipes for when stuff goes out of control including hyper-efficient 'wipes like Wrath of God and Vanquish the Horde, instant-speed boardwipes like Rout, and wipes you can break the symettry of like Austere Command and Winds of Abandon
• It has some ways to try to "make friends", especially in the last few years, with Secret Rendezvous and Tenuous Truce.
• It tends to fly under the radar since "lolwhitebad", and its cards feel fair or give tit for tat, which helps smooth bad feelings and build political good will in the hands of a good pilot.
• It has some absolutely devastating rattlesnake cards like Comeuppance.

[3drinks]

Maybe I should be playing that Comeuppance ......

[Mookie]

IMO, the best commander is going to depend on what sort of politics you want to engage in. Do you want to provide carrots or sticks? How forceful do you want your nudges to be? Do you want your negotiations to be implicit or explicit?

Personally, I'm not really a fan of Phelddagrif-style deal-making diplomancy - I've played against enough deal-making opponents to know that style of gameplay isn't for me... and when an opponent is too aggressive in their dealmaking, it tends to grate on my nerves. As a result, the style of politics I prefer tend to be of the 'enlightened self-interest' variety - my opponents should do something that benefits me because it also benefits them, and not because I ask them to. In an ideal situation, my opponents will take each other out without me needing to intervene at all.

That said, as others have mentioned, Phelddagrif is probably the purest political commander - you have a very easy way to encourage your opponents to perform the actions you want, and the scope of those actions could be literally anything, opposed to something like Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist explicitly rewarding life loss. I do like Ludevic if your goal is for the entire table to have a good time though. Personally, I'd probably go with Queen Marchesa or Karazikar, the Eye Tyrant - I like it when my puppets - erm, opponents - dance for my amusement.

More broadly, I would recommend any commander that lets you run lots of interaction - you want carrots to encourage good behavior, but you also need sticks to punish bad behavior. Decks that can function with a lighter board presence also tend to do better politically - the less obviously threatening your deck is, the better. Of my own decks, I would say that Tasigur and Kess are the most political, and the fact that they are both fairly controlling definitely contributes to that. If you want to go for a more dedicated diplomacy deck, access to white is probably a good idea though - stuff like Secret Rendezvous and Tenuous Truce is pretty good for making a friend.

[3drinks]

On a more serious note, when I play politics, I play to inspire people to do things. Some will call this group slug, which I guess isn't entirely inaccurate, but I'm just...I want to incentivize you engaging with the game.

To this end, I like Xantcha, Sleeper Agent, Kardur, Doomscourge, Shadrix Silverquill, Breena, the Demagogue and Varchild, Betrayer of Kjeldor since one could easily incentivize you without pushing you in a linear direction.

...maybe I still don't get politics or multiplayer lol.

[kraus911]

Thanks for the replies. These are a really good series of points. I was mistaking generals that manipulate the game state for political cards when in reality a general that does that is actually a threat. Assuming every player is set out to win the game, even a general that looks symmetrically beneficial can assumed to be a lie. Blue Braids for example. I've played against several Selvala, Explorer Returned decks where the pilot worked way too hard to convince the table the deck benefited everyone where obviously it didn't.

I'll check out the Pheldagriff primer, even though that card has always annoyed me! I even like hippos, just apparently not in the command zone? I do think mardu Marchesa is probably a great example of a good political general in that aside from introducing the Monarch to the game, which most people find fun, and giving you those deathtouch tokens, it doesn't actually DO anything impactful.

I do feel Zedruu can be decent politically, as long as you don't build him in the annoying way, donating Illusions of Grandeur and such. Mine is a build that makes and donates tokens along with world enchantments and artifacts Torpor Orb and Rest in Peace that rein in decks trying to set up value engines that put them ahead.

Also, 3drinks, all those cards you named go in a mardu shell, so maybe there's your political Marchesa deck.

[3drinks]

Also, 3drinks, all those cards you named go in a mardu shell, so maybe there's your political Marchesa deck.

It's because I only play mardu lol. Though I want something more than etb monarch in the zone. I like the partners since I can feed humans to my nightmare kitty and dissuade you attacking me, but I'm trying to get out of my comfort zone. Obscura is looking pretty nice at least they deck anyway.

[Elincia]

Few people mention Ardenn, Intrepid Archaeologist when considering a political pile, but I think it's an amazing pick. Playing equipments and auras that you can pass around to balance the game by either boosting other players' creatures or removing their threats with Darksteel Mutation effects, is extremely fun. If you add blue, you can even play the Control Magic enchantments (there are a lot) and give threats to different players to incite them to murder your other opponents. And it has the benefit of having voltron as a backup plan if ever needs be.

[kraus911]

Oh I like Ardenn as an unusual political pick.

I was just thinking how Kenrith, the Returned King has the potential to be a Phelddagrif but because of how he's usually played his threat potential is way too high. I suppose you could still do it, but it'll take a few games before people believe you're not going for combo wins.