[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

[Guardman]

I had one of those prereleases where everything went my way. This was my sealed deck with 9 rares or mythics:

OTJ Prerelease Sealed Deck

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Creatures 13

2 Nezumi Linkbreaker

1 Tinybones, the Pickpocket

1 Caustic Bronco

2 Silver Deputy

1 Treasure Dredger

1 Honest Rutstein

1 Rattleback Apothecary

2 Vault Plunderer

1 The Gitrog, Ravenous Ride

1 Ambush Gigapede

Sorceries 2

1 Insatiable Avarice

1 Rush of Dread

Instants 6

2 Unfortunate Accident

1 Abrupt Decay

1 Murder

1 Neutralize the Guards

1 Betrayal at the Vault

Artifacts 1

1 Lost Jitte

Enchantments 2

1 Tinybones Joins Up

1 Vraska Joins Up

Lands 16

9 Swamp

5 Forest

1 Conduit Pylons

1 Forlorn Flats

Approximate Total Cost:

I also ended up winning a Bundle Box of MKM as a door prize in addition to my four OTJ packs plus the promo pack for going 3-0.

Prerelease Sealed Pool

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Below is another door prize I won in a previous prerelease for the Gandalf the White|87153 poster. Got a frame for it and it looks great. Only problem was where I originally was going to put it was across from a window and shined so bright it was blinding. Think I got another spot figured out and can't wait to put it up.

Poster

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[Hermes_]

whew, almost started an argument with @DirkGently until i re-read what he typed and realized what I thought he said was different from what he actually said.

[Guardman]

So a friend of mine got Mindslaver|97665 and Esoteric Duplicator in their sealed pool and managed to Mindslaver lock an opponent for the win.

[DirkGently]

Got a bunch of APAC-only promo materials from doing 4 prereleases over the weekend. The pins and tokens are really nice, solid metal.

I have absolutely no idea what to do with this stuff outside of hoarding it and scaring away any dwarves/hobbits who try to claim it. Thoughts?

[DirkGently]

Good Bad + Ugly article is up. I did have an edit that I forgot to make, though, in regards to Stella so I'll just post my updated version here.

Stella Lee, Wild Card

There are a few easy points of comparison for Stella - Jori En, Ruin Diver of course, and Rootha, Mercurial Artist is a good stand-in for all the spell-copying commanders. Her first ability is strictly worse than Jori En's. Her second ability looks comparable to Rootha, cheaper but with more setup required, which seems fair enough - but it being a tap ability means that there are a plethora of ways to go infinite with any spell that untaps a creature, either with some side benefit, or with a magecraft trigger on board. That's a pretty enormous swath cards, so suffice to say that, sight unseen, you'd be well advised to kill Stella on sight, or at minimum hold up reliable answers in case shenanigans ensue. On top of that, there's the pervasive problem with all blue spell-copying commanders - the best spells to copy are time magic, which isn't exactly an enjoyable play pattern. Put those together and Stella is a commander I'd be very wary of. The design is still fun in a vacuum, so perhaps I'll keep her together as a precon. But I'd trust somewith playing Stella as a constructed deck about as much as an ornery alligator.

Power: A-
Design: C-
Final Judgment: Ugly

I didn't notice the combo potential until one of the local cEDH players pointed it out at the prerelease. Oops

[Hermes_]

Things I've learned from the Car chase channel on plutotv: CHP's cars all have a push bar so they can do the pit maneuver. When doing a pursuit LAPD goes into tracking mode, meaning no lights or sirens and CHP is more aggressive. Also traffic sucks in LA.

[Lifeless]

So realistically how long will it be until there's an AI generated set (at least the card texts)? 2-3 years is my guess.

[DirkGently]

So realistically how long will it be until there's an AI generated set (at least the card texts)? 2-3 years is my guess.

Never. At least I'd be very surprised. AI does a reasonable job of creating semblances of things - an image generated by AI can be difficult to distinguish from a painting or a photo or whatever. But the bulk of the work in designing a set isn't creating a bunch of things that look approximately like magic cards, any moron can do that, it's about balance and theme and flavor and playtesting and fun, and I'd be very dubious that AI could do any of those things without some enormous breakthrough. Maybe if magic was only commander, but other formats are a lot more demanding to design for.

Even if you could generate all of OTJ identically with AI, there would be a massive uproar if WotC just fired all their designers in favor of AI. There's uproar about potential AI use in creating the art, and the art has much less impact on the game. If we're talking decades down the line then who knows where technology and public opinion will be, but 2-3 years? Absolutely zero chance.

[Hermes_]

So realistically how long will it be until there's an AI generated set (at least the card texts)? 2-3 years is my guess.

Never. At least I'd be very surprised. AI does a reasonable job of creating semblances of things - an image generated by AI can be difficult to distinguish from a painting or a photo or whatever. But the bulk of the work in designing a set isn't creating a bunch of things that look approximately like magic cards, any moron can do that, it's about balance and theme and flavor and playtesting and fun, and I'd be very dubious that AI could do any of those things without some enormous breakthrough. Maybe if magic was only commander, but other formats are a lot more demanding to design for.

Even if you could generate all of OTJ identically with AI, there would be a massive uproar if WotC just fired all their designers in favor of AI. There's uproar about potential AI use in creating the art, and the art has much less impact on the game. If we're talking decades down the line then who knows where technology and public opinion will be, but 2-3 years? Absolutely zero chance.

and most importently the one thing that seems to rarely happen: Making @DirkGently Happy

[Dragonlover]

I can see a limited use, but not a full set getting generated. Personally if I was a designer having a kinda janky AI generator is the sort of thing I'd find handy for those days when the inspiration just isn't coming together. Hit the button, see what vaguely legible stuff can be culled from the gibberish as a springboard. Hell, I did it once after using one that used to exist that generated a card that tapped target library, then working back from that to work out why the hell you'd tap a library in the first place.

If nothing else, chucking the entirety of MtG into an AI model has none of the ethical drawbacks of the art stuff - they aren't stealing anything, and anyone designing a card is getting part of the inspiration from previous cards anyway. I don't ever see it replacing the design team though, as Dirk says an actual set needs that human touch to provide coherency.

Dragonlover

[Lifeless]

If nothing else, chucking the entirety of MtG into an AI model has none of the ethical drawbacks of the art stuff - they aren't stealing anything, and anyone designing a card is getting part of the inspiration from previous cards anyway.

Excellent point. It's significantly less unethical to have a company use their own existing property filtered through AI to generate new property. Certainly the designs would need to be edited to line up with style guidelines until the algo can represent these things goo. I think a lot of future AI use depends on public acceptance and large corporations are going to do their best to continue to erode consumer concerns because ultimately it lowers cost. Just an odd thing I was thinking about today.

[DirkGently]

If nothing else, chucking the entirety of MtG into an AI model has none of the ethical drawbacks of the art stuff - they aren't stealing anything, and anyone designing a card is getting part of the inspiration from previous cards anyway.

Excellent point. It's significantly less unethical to have a company use their own existing property filtered through AI to generate new property.

I disagree with this. Designing cards is also creative work. Just because WotC owns the results of that creativity doesn't mean the company itself created it. Would you not see an ethical problem if they used AI art and fired all their artists - so long as the inputs were art that WotC owned?

Imagine if every piece of art you ever sold (or card you designed) ran the risk that someone in the future might buy enough of it to create a bot to replicate your style, and could then legally sell everything that bot created, much more easily and cheaply than you could. What a nightmare.

This line of thinking opens up the potential for every job in existence to become redundant. Which, hey, if we could collectively put our feet up and let the robots take care of things, great...but y'all know that isn't how this is going to pan out...

[Lifeless]

My point was that Hasbro using their own property for an AI database is less problematic in the sense that most current AI models use publicly available data and\or stolen works. So perhaps I should have said it's not legally problematic (for now). Damage to job sectors due to AI is without a doubt a concerning issue and world governments are unlikely to act before there is significant damage done to various job sectors. Labor unions taking a swing at this issue are perhaps our best hope.

[Toshi]

The moment all Art is AI generated and all cards are "thought" of by some ChatGPT style AI, is the moment i am quitting MTG for good.

[duducrash]

So, I recently started reading Berserk. I'm currently at volume 22. I think the arc that just began in english would be thousand year falcon saga. and let me tell you, first couple volumes I was a little dissapointed, it was too much. But then I got to the flashback. Amazing. Trully amazing, sometimes I wish the sexual undertones even if present were presented as metaphors or implicit. So to retain some "shock" but it doesnt undermine the story so far. Curious to keep reading it

[Hermes_]

well at least we will have a break before we get all hot and bothered by MH3.

[benjameenbear]

Hey, ya'll hear that the WOTC President tendered her resignation? Crazy. Turns out overprinting cards, designing terrible cards, lowering the quality of cards, and overseeing the absolute debacle of Magic 30th anniversary isn't good for long-term career longevity.

I wish I had faith that -- somehow, some way-- someone could come in and ACTUALLY turn MTG around. But reality is a harsh mistress and my faith is at zero.

[DirkGently]

My point was that Hasbro using their own property for an AI database is less problematic in the sense that most current AI models use publicly available data and\or stolen works. So perhaps I should have said it's not legally problematic (for now).

The purpose of ethics (and law, which is more-or-less codified ethics) is to guide us towards decisions that create better societal outcomes. A company using creative material it owns, feeding it into a woodchipper (AI algorithm) and using it to create "new" creative material, may not violate most common ethical systems...but the outcome it forbodes is horrific. What job, given sufficient technology, couldn't be replaced by an algorithm that takes, as inputs, someone doing the job well a sufficient number of times, and then aping those actions? So screw whatever ethical system you're using - if it doesn't have a problem with AI, then frankly it's not a sufficient ethical system. If the law doesn't forbid it, the law needs to be changed.

Selling art is selling the product of your labor. Selling your art to be used for AI is selling your soul. Nobody should be able to sell their soul, even if they want to.

[Lifeless]

Hey, ya'll hear that the WOTC President tendered her resignation? Crazy. Turns out overprinting cards, designing terrible cards, lowering the quality of cards, and overseeing the absolute debacle of Magic 30th anniversary isn't good for long-term career longevity.

I wish I had faith that -- somehow, some way-- someone could come in and ACTUALLY turn MTG around. But reality is a harsh mistress and my faith is at zero.

I would like to think that knowing what MtG is would be a criteria for her replacement at very least.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Hey, ya'll hear that the WOTC President tendered her resignation? Crazy. Turns out overprinting cards, designing terrible cards, lowering the quality of cards, and overseeing the absolute debacle of Magic 30th anniversary isn't good for long-term career longevity.

I wish I had faith that -- somehow, some way-- someone could come in and ACTUALLY turn MTG around. But reality is a harsh mistress and my faith is at zero.

I don't think it was only MtG that did her in. She also oversaw the huge OL crisis with DnD, which was a massive L for the company and required some pretty heavy backpedaling.

That being said, I wouldn't advocate hopelessness, towards MtG or anything else. For example, I've had a lot of %$#% jobs in my life. I've had 23 different jobs since I was 16, in fact. Last year, I finally got a job that both pays me well and has bosses I can respect. If I had just resigned myself to the perpetuity of unfulfilling and unsavory vocations, I'd probably still be in the spin cycle of %$#% job hell. Likewise, there's as much likelihood they hire someone who cares about quality and long-term success for WotC CEO as someone who doesn't. We can only hope, right?

[duducrash]

Do you all keep up with mainstream comics? Recently, maybve a month or two ago, Andrea Sorentino was recently exposed/accused of using AI in his own work. He is a stabilished artist with a good enough following. and i'll tell you what, I wouldnt've known had it not being explained to me like I'm 5 I dont think we'll be able to separate some drawings from AI in a couple of years. Specially if the artist feeds it only with his own artwork



https://bleedingcool.com/comics/accusat ... -mount-ai/

[benjameenbear]

Hey, ya'll hear that the WOTC President tendered her resignation? Crazy. Turns out overprinting cards, designing terrible cards, lowering the quality of cards, and overseeing the absolute debacle of Magic 30th anniversary isn't good for long-term career longevity.

I wish I had faith that -- somehow, some way-- someone could come in and ACTUALLY turn MTG around. But reality is a harsh mistress and my faith is at zero.

I don't think it was only MtG that did her in. She also oversaw the huge OL crisis with DnD, which was a massive L for the company and required some pretty heavy backpedaling.

That being said, I wouldn't advocate hopelessness, towards MtG or anything else. For example, I've had a lot of %$#% jobs in my life. I've had 23 different jobs since I was 16, in fact. Last year, I finally got a job that both pays me well and has bosses I can respect. If I had just resigned myself to the perpetuity of unfulfilling and unsavory vocations, I'd probably still be in the spin cycle of %$#% job hell. Likewise, there's as much likelihood they hire someone who cares about quality and long-term success for WotC CEO as someone who doesn't. We can only hope, right?

Yeah, WOTC and Hasbro are in some pretty significant trouble. Revenues dropping for like the 3rd or 4th straight quarter... I'd guess customer loyalty for MTG and D&D is probably at an all-time low because of the mismanagement... it's NOT a good recipe for success.

I was watching a YouTube video about the D&D thing too. Good lord. Your customer base isn't stupid; they know what you're trying to do. And I gotta say, the customer solidarity for this change was super impressive.

Your hopefulness is inspiring. While I can't say the new Thunder Junction set or storyline is redeeming for me personally, it seems to be well received by a majority of people.

So maybe that's a sign of things to come and Jace WILL actually reset the Multiverse. Gimme my Bolas archvillain who had a legit plan that actually caused character development. Let the Phyrexians come out of stasis and create another existential crisis that requires ingenuity and legit sacrifice. Let there be REAL stakes for characters we ACTUALLY care about.

[pokken]

I wish we could go back to the days of sets not having much in your face story except what's going on on the plane, exploring the unique features and mechanics of the environment and painting a picture of the world instead of this "let's retell popular culture in Magic form to coast on waves of nostalgia for XYZ idea."

So tired of multiverse spanning plot that takes center stage. Tired of planeswalkers who are little stuper heroes.

GRUMP GRUMP GRUMP :D

ya wanna know who cared about the story of ice age. nobody. we were just excited for Icy Manipulator reprint and new dual lands and cracking a Jester's Cap

[folding_music]

(randomly: i was ok with the yakuza-fication of FF7 Rebirth before I saw Corel prison and now I honestly think it's just a bad game. this place should just be a complete downer, the mini-games should be like getting robbed, playing russian roulette and getting into debt betting on the chocobos and subsequently getting beaten up by an enforcer who wears shades and a mohican. not... the thing they made instead)

I love the flavour text from ice age but I have no idea what the story is ))))) I have so many of the cards and it's peak mtg to me. agreed we could use a little less story continuity, a little less superheroism and a lot more subtlety

[Ruiner]

So, I recently started reading Berserk. I'm currently at volume 22. I think the arc that just began in english would be thousand year falcon saga. and let me tell you, first couple volumes I was a little dissapointed, it was too much. But then I got to the flashback. Amazing. Trully amazing, sometimes I wish the sexual undertones even if present were presented as metaphors or implicit. So to retain some "shock" but it doesnt undermine the story so far. Curious to keep reading it

I would absolutely recommend that you continue reading Berserk. It's one of the best fantasy series out there in my opinion. Unfortunately the creator passed away so there is no ending, but there are plans in place for apprentice(s) to continue and finish off the story. I've been wanting to reread it for a while now as I jumped on board fairly early into the English translation release, so there were large gaps of time waiting between some of those volumes.

The artwork has some crazy details, and it's a fairly unique story. It definitely pulls no punches and has dark themes, but I don't think it gets "edgy for its own sake".

The animated adaptations have been pretty solid as well. The original 1997 26 episode series, and more recent three movie series are great, both covering the same story which is the 2nd Arc of the comic (essentially ending just past Eclipse). The most recent adaptation, which covers the next few arcs has some pretty jarring/bad 3D CGI monsters, almost like out of Reboot or Beastwars at times, but if you can look past that it was still enjoyable.

There is a PS4 Dynasty Warriors style Berserk game that actually goes really far into the comics arcs. Combat is a bit repetitive but I enjoyed it (its not a "must play" game by any means though).