[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Rishkar, Peema Renegade

[onering]

I don't think anyone is going to argue that countering a late game harrow, or even a mid game one that won't gimp their Mana, is right, so I agree that most possible situations it will be wrong to counter it. I think that the "counter the harrow" mindset is referring to an early game harrow, as they are talking about how badly it screws people's tempo. The real question is whether countering turn 3 harrow or turn 2 harrow off a sol ring is right or not.

I tend to thing it's not cut and dry but that it's probably right as often as not. In a vacuum, There aren't many plays more powerful for a counterspell than gimping someone that badly on Mana, except for stopping a game winning play.

If I'm thinking that I need to be ready to counter a combo early, I'm letting harrow resolve unless I have more counters in hand and it's about to be my turn. Removing the player as a threat for several turns is worth a counterspell, especially when doing so might gimp them so bad they can't come back. I'd rather worry about one fewer player each round when I'm playing control, because you only have so much Mana to spend on counters, and stopping one guys combo and thus not having enough Mana to stop the next guys is a thing.

If it's more casual, and doing so isn't frowned upon, it's a good play, even better than removing an early sol ring. Yes, it's multiplayer, but the fewer opponents capable of executing their gameplan the better your chances. Your other opponents certainly benefit as well from the harrow players loss, but you're control so you benefit more from being able to focus on fewer threats. Of course, even here it depends on what sort of decks you're facing. If the harrow player looks to be playing something that can snowball ramp from just a few key ramp spells, like Wanderer, hitting harrow is going to really set him back and may be the best option for getting him under control. On the other hand, if it's an all in ramp strategy like Asuza or Omnath 2.0, they're going to have enough ramp to come back from it easily. if it's more midrange, it will hurt but maybe isn't all that necessary. 4+ color is going to get screwed (especially since harrow means they have lots of basics), while 1 or 2 color isn't going to hurt much.

[DirkGently]

Clearly from a tactical perspective it's an awesome play.

I disagree strongly with this statement.

If it's a functional 1v1 (i.e. everyone else at the table is much lower power level) then sure, maybe. But at a balanced table, even if you're always 2-for-1ing every enemy spell, if you're playing a 4-player game you're still losing CA every single time.

I'll save my counters for the critical spells. They can have their ramp spells, that's fine.

Don't bolt the bird (in multiplayer).

A player that kept 3 lands and a harrow may suddenly find that they basically lose the game for U or 1U - which is the most tempo-power play one can hope to make in Magic. lol get wrecked. Even if it doesn't completely kneecap them for the rest of the match, it's still great - they're effectively down two cards; it's great in the same way countering Altar's Reap or whatever is amazing.

And you may find that another player becomes the threat and you wish you hadn't kneecapped your ally so early in the game before you knew what was going on.

Countering altar's reap sounds like a horrible idea and a great way to lose the game. 2-for-1s are not 2-for-1s in multiplayer. And if anyone's even playing altar's reap, presumably they're getting value from the sac, or at least sacking something useless and not worth a full card.

In my playgroup and in most every game store I've ever played in, countering Harrow [...] is a total sociopath move that is likely to get me uninvited to future games. We can have a larger debate on if that's "right" to assume that no one will counter your Harrow, Mine your bounce-land, or Nature's Claim your Sol Ring and to be hurt when someone breaks the unspoken pact, but that's just the nature of the format in most places.

I think what makes it an obnoxious move is the same reason I'd be pissed if someone hatreded me for lethal to leave themselves at 3 life vs a burn deck. Wow, so cutthroat, masterful play. Losing to a good move is fair enough, but I hate losing to someone's bad move.

There's a surprising amount of 1v1 mentality going around.

No, no, even in multiplayer. If it's not mid-late game, or they're mana stunted, I will absolutely counter this every time. Ramp and mana fixing is a privilege, not a right. And I'll certainly deny you that right when it suits me.

There are certainly occasions when it's correct, I won't deny that. But to say you'd counter it every time - when they're playing a 5/10 jank deck, and you're probably going to want that counterspell for the 9/10 Zur deck that just drew 15 cards off necro - I think is a very poor play.

I'm not sure we're ever going to see eye to eye on this. There's only so many times I can try to explain how CA works in multiplayer before I feel like I'm just repeating myself.

[ZenN]

It's not often I find myself in complete agreement with Dirk, but this time I think we're fully on the same page.

[Mookie]

Don't bolt the bird (in multiplayer).

I'll agree with this... but on the other hand, if Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary were legal, I would absolutely bolt in T2 every time possible. Same with countering a T1 Sol Ring with Mental Misstep (not that I run it, but still).

Similarly, lategame I would still expect people to counter Boundless Realms or Mana Reflection. I sometimes question blowing up Gilded Lotus, but it is something I see happen. On the other hand, blowing up a Sol Ring on turn 10+ when its controller has 10+ mana is generally irrelevant.

So there's clearly a spectrum between 'not worth countering' and 'stop every time possible'. And I would say a T2/T3 Harrow to be closer than you're giving it credit. Not necessarily in 'always counter' territory, but I do think it to at least be in 'sometimes counter' territory (and not 'never counter').

(although, again, depends somewhat on your meta - the shorter the games are, the more tempo matters)

[DirkGently]

I tend to thing it's not cut and dry but that it's probably right as often as not. In a vacuum, There aren't many plays more powerful for a counterspell than gimping someone that badly on Mana, except for stopping a game winning play.

I certainly prefer this more measured analysis.

In general, the things I'd be thinking about when deciding whether or not to counter harrow, blow up sol ring, or other bad-CA plays to slow down an opponents tempo, would be:

-How threatening is this player based on the information I have? If I don't think they're a high threat priority relative to the rest of the table, I'm very unlikely to bother. Against unknown decks, I'd have to go off commanders, manabases, etc. Harrow itself is usually a pretty medium card, so that doesn't speak highly of their power level usually.

-Is this player likely to be helpful to me later? If they're another control deck, they might be useful to keep the other players in check and I don't want to expend resources holding them back. If it's a known all-in combo deck with no desire to do anything except win, screw 'em.

-How useful is this counter? If it's, say, disrupt then I'm a lot more likely to play it for value. If my hand runeth over with counters and I'm likely to have to discard some, then I'm a lot more likely to play it. If I'm low on responses, I'm much more likely to conserve them. I'm also less likely to play it if I think other, bigger threats are likely to require counters to answer.

[3drinks]

Thursday, May 14th, 2020; Lifecrafter's Bestiary

...I don't get it. Looks like garbage tbh. Add G to every creature spell you cast? At least Mentor of the Meek works with tokens too.

I think it's a trap.

[Mookie]

I have a somewhat mixed opinion of Lifecrafter's Bestiary. In a vacuum, I think it's pretty good - green decks tend to have a lot of creatures, and turning those creatures into card draw is pretty good. It's also not a creature itself, so it won't die to the inevitable board wipe your opponents cast (because you're playing a bunch of creatures). Incidental scry is also nice, as a way to make sure you keep drawing creatures if you somehow run out of them in hand.

On the other hand, green has also had a ton of these effects printed. From the originals, Glimpse of Nature and Primordial Sage, to Soul of the Harvest, plus Beast Whisperer, Guardian Project, and The Great Henge - there is a lot of redundancy, and most of them don't require mana costs. Guardian Project especially outclasses this, in my opinion - only one mana more, and enchantments tend to stick around even longer than artifacts. Simultaneously, the additional mana cost really adds up, and can be surprisingly difficult to pay for repeatedly in a multicolor deck. I tested it in Animar for a bit, and once that deck gets going it really doesn't like additional costs... but even in other green decks that are only casting 1-2 creatures per turn (instead of 4+), it's still a headache.

I do think that most green creature-based decks want a few instances of this effect, but I'd lean towards other options first. If those options aren't available for some reason (Umori, the Collector mono-artifacts?), this looks better.

[cheonice]

Pokedex is a fun card I use in Selvala, Explorer Returned. The scry really helps and typically I have some mana to spare. The initial cost is cheaper, but yeah... the costs really add up. Fun roleplayer, not for every deck.

[Dragoon]

Pokedex is a fun card I use in Selvala, Explorer Returned.

Gosh, at this rate, I'll really end up with a pokemon-themed EDH deck. xD

[pokken]

This card is very, very good. Being on cast is almost worth the cost just to beat torpor orb effects.

[onering]

It good not great. Its main weakness is that it suffers from a plethora of competition that either trigger more often, are creatures themselves and thus chain together well, or are much cheaper. I'd rate this similarly to Glimpse of Nature, in that there are usually stronger options because of the restrictions surrounding the card, but the strengths and weaknesses are the opposite of Glimpse. Glimpse has the strength of being 1 mana and a sorcery, so when you are ready you fire it off and your opponents need a counter spell at hand to interact with it, while the downside is that it is only on for 1 turn. You trade security and extremely low mana investment for a very limited window to use it, Pokedex on the other hand, is the most mana intensive form of this effect, which is its clear weakness. Its strength is that it gives you a scry every turn, so it does something even if you run into a block of land. Pokedex provides the best long term effect when you are not all in on creatures, its harder to interact with than the creature based versions of the effect, the scry is added value every turn and matters more the longer it sits around, and the cost to draw matters least in decks with a moderate amount of critters, where even with spending G every time you may not be playing more than 1 or 2 creatures a turn, but where your creature density is still enough that you will rarely be going a turn without playing any. Where Glimpse is at its best in something like Seton Storm, Pokedex is at its best in the sort of grindy, balanced good stuff decks that once where the bread and butter of the format. If that's what your deck is doing, add it, otherwise its probably too mana intensive and your better off with other things. Mentor of the Meek is great because its in white and can trigger on tokens, but mostly because its in white and any draw source that can qualify as good in a vacuum becomes an all star in white. Pokedex has the misfortune of competing in Green, which is a much more difficult division for draw sources.

[Sinis]

Thursday, May 14th, 2020; Lifecrafter's Bestiary

It's a pokedex!!!

In all seriousness, it's acceptable. I don't think it's 'amazing' or an autoinclude, however. You figure, if you cast three creatures over three turns, you're basically getting a Precognitive Perception over time for . That's a fine rate over three turns.

Some people play OG Thassa for a 3 mana scry 1 on upkeep, I don't think this one is unreasonable, even if it's unremarkable.

I'd rate this similarly to Glimpse of Nature

I would say Glimpse is a totally different card; usually it's a combo enabler with elves. For decks lower on the curve, Glimpse is definitely going to give you a better return than Lifecrafter's Bestiary. For higher on the curve, definitely not.

[Hawk]

At release this felt spicy - coming it at half the cost of Soul of the Harvest or Primordial Sage, permanent unlike Glimpse of Nature or Beck // Call, and restriction-free unlike Garruk's Packleader or Elemental Bond, with a free scry that also felt relevant and fun. I never ran one but it was on my "want" list for a while.

Oh how quickly the tables turn though - in just the last few years we got Beast Whisperer, Guardian Project, and The Great Henge as more efficient, powerful, and useful copies of this effect. I think the massive play amounts of this on EDHRECs are largely a "precon boost" and the fact that Henge is a bit pricey and really new, and that this thing is only going to climb as time goes on.

[Sinis]

Oh how quickly the tables turn though - in just the last few years we got Beast Whisperer, Guardian Project, and The Great Henge as more efficient, powerful, and useful copies of this effect. I think the massive play amounts of this on EDHRECs are largely a "precon boost" and the fact that Henge is a bit pricey and really new, and that this thing is only going to climb as time goes on.

I think this really calls it how it is. There are cards printed in the last year that are just fabulous in comparison.

[Outcryqq]

I like Lifecrafter's Bestiary because it triggers on cast. This might become more relevant if mutate creatures catch on, because when you cast a creature for its mutate cost you still get the on-cast triggers, whereas the ETB triggered versions don't. So while bestiary is good in my new Nethroi, Apex of Death deck, other versions like Guardian Project (what I consider to be its prime competition) is not great in the same deck.

[pokken]

It also triggers even if the spell gets countered. If you glimpse / beast whisperer and someone counters your first and only creature, you can be totally dead in the water. This you can count on getting your trigger wherever.

I think you play this after beast whisperer which is easily tutorable, but I think I consider playing this before Guardian Project. I think The Great Henge is very situational whether it's good or not, it's really not great at 6 or 7 mana. It's still solid, but I probably play beastiary first.

The nice thing about bestiary is its lower initial investment and curving into fixing your land drops via the next turn scry makes it a far more consistent thing to play. You don't need a board state or anything for it to be decent too.

[ZenN]

If you glimpse / beast whisperer and someone counters your first and only creature, you can be totally dead in the water.

Glimpse of Nature is also on cast.

EDIT: ... Actually, so is Beast Whisperer. However, your point is valid for Guardian Project and Soul of the Harvest. And Beck // Call.

[pokken]

If you glimpse / beast whisperer and someone counters your first and only creature, you can be totally dead in the water.

Glimpse of Nature is also on cast.

Sorry I mixed two thoughts up there and didn't finish the other one.

Glimpse suffers from having your first creature countered in different ways in that it often depends on those creatures hitting the board to continue going off (e.g. Heritage Druid / Chord of Calling / Earthcraft / etc.). Being "now or never" makes it less resilient.

Also much worse with medium sized creatures.

[ZenN]

I really like this card, and Guardian Project, but only if you're built to chain 2-3 creatures every turn cycle. If you're consistently only playing one creature per turn cycle, then it's only drawing you one card per turn cycle, at which point it's just a worse Phyrexian Arena because it only sometimes draws you cards. And, sadly, for a couple years now I've been of the opinion that Phyrexian Arena just isn't good enough in this format anymore.

Now, that said, even if you're only doing one per turn I still really like Beast Whisperer, because he comes with a decent body and two relevant creature types. Being a creature may make him more fragile, but also makes him much easier for green to tutor for, as well as easier to recur, protect, etc.

[Outcryqq]

I really like this card, and Guardian Project, but only if you're built to chain 2-3 creatures every turn cycle. If you're consistently only playing one creature per turn cycle, then it's only drawing you one card per turn cycle, at which point it's just a worse Phyrexian Arena because it only sometimes draws you cards. And, sadly, for a couple years now I've been of the opinion that Phyrexian Arena just isn't good enough in this format anymore.

Now, that said, even if you're only doing one per turn I still really like Beast Whisperer, because he comes with a decent body and two relevant creature types. Being a creature may make him more fragile, but also makes him much easier for green to tutor for, as well as easier to recur, protect, etc.

I agree that arena is only ok, but to expect 2-3 cards per turn cycle from a green 3-4cmc noncreature permanent is a big ask. You're comparing apples to oranges when comparing greens card draw to blacks card draw.

[ZenN]

I agree that arena is only ok, but to expect 2-3 cards per turn cycle from a green 3-4cmc noncreature permanent is a big ask. You're comparing apples to oranges when comparing greens card draw to blacks card draw.

Generally speaking, if I'm playing a (non-blue) green deck that is only likely casting one creature per turn cycle, they're probably decently sized creatures, and green offers a lot of decent or better, some very compelling, burst draw based on creature power, like Garruk, Primal Hunter, Life's Legacy, Momentous Fall, Rishkar's Expertise, Return of the Wildspeaker, etc. Obviously some of those are better than others, but they're all at least decent.

If I'm playing a creature deck that's only casting one creature per turn cycle consistently, I'd much rather play cards like the ones I just listed over stuff like Lifecrafter's Bestiary and Guardian Project.

[onering]

Thursday, May 14th, 2020; Lifecrafter's Bestiary

Some people play OG Thassa for a 3 mana scry 1 on upkeep, I don't think this one is unreasonable, even if it's unremarkable.

I'd rate this similarly to Glimpse of Nature

I would say Glimpse is a totally different card; usually it's a combo enabler with elves. For decks lower on the curve, Glimpse is definitely going to give you a better return than Lifecrafter's Bestiary. For higher on the curve, definitely not.

Uh, yeah, that's why I then went into a lengthy look at how they serve different roles. I rate them as similar in strength, both are more limited in their uses than other versions of the effect, but within their uses they are stronger than the other options.

[3drinks]

Friday, May 15th; Overabundance

Whoa. What a dangerous card. My interest is piqued, though.

[Mookie]

I put Overabundance in a Tamanoa Earthquake tribal deck ages ago, where it was one of the more interesting cards. At its core, it's Mana Flare + Manabarbs, both of which are pretty powerful effects on their own - Mana Flare is a cheap mana doubler, and fantastic in decks that want to generate a ton of mana... while Manabarbs is a fantastic card in group slug decks that want to punish players for generating lots of mana. As you may imagine, there is a lot of tension between the two effects.

I would say that its primary usage is in decks that are running a lot of ways to make the damage asymmetric - Tamanoa is one way, but cards like Gisela, Blade of Goldnight and Torbran, Thane of Red Fell also work. You could also make the damage asymmetric by relying on nonland mana sources such as artifacts, but that sort of defeats the purpose of running a mana doubler. There are also cards like Darien, King of Kjeldor that benefit from you taking damage, or you could just run a bunch of lifegain to mitigate the damage.

....seems like almost all the cards I suggest point towards a Naya deck.

[Dragoon]

....seems like almost all the cards I suggest point towards a Naya deck.

Reasonable in Zacama, Primal Calamity, maybe?
Personal Sanctuary, Glacial Chasm and the like seem like good tools for negating the damage on your part.