[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Golgari Thug

[Hawk]

I remember when this was spoiled pretty vividly, since I think Judgment was only the second expansion set where I was a posting member of good ol' MTGNews - people lost. Their. Minds. This card felt so bizarre, so revolutionary, so breakable, that everyone buzzed about it breaking Standard and the game either as a way to enable truly massive plays, or a way to enable dead opponents by saccing/nuking it once opponents had banked a bunch of mana.

We all now how history played out - this card was a big fat nothing. Even in its era of Standard/Extended/Kitchen Table Magic, it faced the problem of being a 4-mana do nothing that was symmetrical. For one more mana (admittedly adding a color but still) you could double your mana with Mirari's Wake. The era also contained some amazing mana sinks if you felt like you were gonna have mana to spend on initial do-nothings with Bearscape and Genesis and even Mirari from the other day.

Looking with decades of time now - this card got hyped as a mana doubler like Mana Flare but even crazier and more interesting, but it's actually a lot closer to something like Green Mana Battery that allows you to bank mana, demanding a huge amount of initial investment for that "privilege". On the one hand, it's hard to do much better outside of Omnath, Locus of Mana and Kruphix, God of Horizons- Gemstone Array is probably the next-best version of this effect, still demanding a 4-mana up front payment and a 2-for-1 conversion ration in exchange for offering fixing, proliferate synergy, and asymmetry. The thing is, as shown by Omnath and Kruphix - this effect just isn't actually good very often. If you are often floating a ton of mana, you probably would have more success by lowering your deck's curve, adding more draw, or adding more mana sinks than you would be running a bunch of "bank" effects.

[Dunharrow]

Is this the Pygmy Hippo tech I have been searching for?

[Hawk]

Is this the Pygmy Hippo tech I have been searching for?

I am adding "got 'em by luring them into storing a ton with Upwelling and then sneaking in a hasty Pygmy Hippo" to my lifetime "achievement" list. That is hysterically funny.

[DirkGently]

I remember when this was spoiled pretty vividly, since I think Judgment was only the second expansion set where I was a posting member of good ol' MTGNews - people lost. Their. Minds. This card felt so bizarre, so revolutionary, so breakable, that everyone buzzed about it breaking Standard and the game either as a way to enable truly massive plays, or a way to enable dead opponents by saccing/nuking it once opponents had banked a bunch of mana.

We all now how history played out - this card was a big fat nothing.

I was too new to the game when this came out to be paying attention to spoilers, but I remember some of my friends being pretty excited about it. At the time I didn't quite get the hype - all my favourite cards had 6+ power - but I do remember being a bit confused when I saw the card in the junk rare bin at my LGS sometime later. Isn't this the card that was supposed to be incredibly broken? Why was it selling for 50 cents?

Is this the Pygmy Hippo tech I have been searching for?

For a sec I was going to recommend Piracy as well, but tragically it's not worded correctly to take advantage. Boo.

[3drinks]

Saturday, July 11th, 2020; Binding Grasp

It's not often that four mana theft exists, let alone with upside. That pesky upkeep cost gets in the way but realistically...you're okay with paying to keep around what you had to steal. (You weren't gonna cast this on their Craw Wurm anyway, right?)

Plus, the art is pretty sweet with that dragon vs dragon imagery.

[Mookie]

Sweet art, underwhelming card - it's pretty outclassed by Control Magic these days, but I'd also likely run Mind Control, Domestication, Fool's Demise, and a bunch of other effects first. Not to mention Treachery, which is probably the strongest option. The +0/+1 definitely isn't worth the upkeep cost. I suppose there may be some political implications ('if you do X, I'll give you your creature back'), but still generally a pain.

Speaking more broadly, I'm sort of underwhelmed by this sort of effect. There are certainly situations where stealing a key creature is amazing, but I find myself wanting non-aura versions like Blatant Thievery and Agent of Treachery - auras feel like they're too vulnerable to enchantment destruction. There are also plenty of other ways to deal with creatures too, which means I'm more likely to favor an efficient answer like Pongify over a value-added theft effect (and, as always, 'stolen things are less likely to synergize with your own deck'). Still, theft effects are a fun theme, so they do see a decent amount of play.

[folding_music]

I think Control Magic came before Binding Grasp by being in the very first set ever printed. :3 strange how Control Magic feels like a newer card because it's been in a Commander expansion! I have a stack of 4th edition ones cos I was trying to collect a playset of the whole edition.

I run Binding Grasp alongside Control Magic and Abduction in a wizard deck of mine which is all permanents. I would naturally kick it out in a heartbeat for Treachery but people are hoarding that, that's more of an "exists only on MTGO" card to me =P I guess the problem is that people have a low threshold for accepting theft effects so running extra copies can get yr whole deck blacklisted? But I'd rather run Binding Grasp than Mind Control etc cos you often only need the thing for a turn, or you might be planning to return the Grasp to yr hand and then recast it later in which case its CMC 4 nature is more attractive.

[3drinks]

I think Control Magic came before Binding Grasp by being in the very first set ever printed. :3 strange how Control Magic feels like a newer card because it's been in a Commander expansion! I have a stack of 4th edition ones cos I was trying to collect a playset of the whole edition.

Obviously I never said it came before control magic. Because that just isn't true. What I'm getting at is 4 cmc theft is often seen as "too good". And this compares roughly equal to Abduction, with a nonzero amount of preference directed toward the CotD, if you wanted a second four mana theft.

[umtiger]

Obviously I never said it came before control magic. Because that just isn't true. What I'm getting at is 4 cmc theft is often seen as "too good". And this compares roughly equal to Abduction, with a nonzero amount of preference directed toward the CotD, if you wanted a second four mana theft.

4 cmc theft is still good. Sower of Temptation is part of a wizard package that I play in most of my decks with blue (Glen Elendra Archmage, Venser, Shaper Savant + Riptide Laboratory).

They obviously aren't going to print a 1 cmc Control Magic effect. A 2 cmc control magic would be insane tempo and would probably also be unprintable (but we have Gilded Drake). 3 cmc has Threads of Disloyalty (i.e. creature theft with extreme restrictions) or Threaten (i.e. temporary theft). 4 cmc seems about right even for today standards.

I remember Control Magic being a bomb in cube. Was Binding Grasp ever played in besides sideboards competitively or even in casual?

[Wallycaine]

Obviously I never said it came before control magic. Because that just isn't true. What I'm getting at is 4 cmc theft is often seen as "too good". And this compares roughly equal to Abduction, with a nonzero amount of preference directed toward the CotD, if you wanted a second four mana theft.

4 cmc theft is still good. Sower of Temptation is part of a wizard package that I play in most of my decks with blue (Glen Elendra Archmage, Venser, Shaper Savant + Riptide Laboratory).

They obviously aren't going to print a 1 cmc Control Magic effect. A 2 cmc control magic would be insane tempo and would probably also be unprintable (but we have Gilded Drake). 3 cmc has Threads of Disloyalty (i.e. creature theft with extreme restrictions) or Threaten (i.e. temporary theft). 4 cmc seems about right even for today standards.

I remember Control Magic being a bomb in cube. Was Binding Grasp ever played in besides sideboards competitively or even in casual?

To the best of my knowledge, Binding Grasp mostly shared card pools with Control Magic, so it was never really considered competitively.

Any control magic effects printed now tend to be 5 CMC, typically with a downside. Enthralling Hold, for example. Mind Control is even a little stronger than they wanted, I think.

[Outcryqq]

Was Binding Grasp ever played in besides sideboards competitively or even in casual?

Not that I remember. You had plenty of decks featuring Necropotence, blue white counterpost with Kjeldoran Outpost and Force of Will, sligh featuring goblin grenade, and that's all I remember.

[3drinks]

Sunday, July 12th, 2020; The OG Signets!

...I reckon this will be quite a lively discussion, ha! And no, we're leaving arcane sig and fellwar out as they are just a bit too different from this discussion. I'm sure they'll be brought up in comparison, though.

[FoxOfWar]

One of the few cards I allow myself leeway from the 'try to only have any card in only one deck' plan. If you're not on another sort of ramp plan, these are very much up there as some of the best rocks to have.

Of course also that T1 Sol Ring → Signet is almost ubiquitously infamous, as well.

Also, Ravnica flavor is Ravnican so I am biased in that regard too.

[3drinks]

Also, Ravnica flavor is Ravnican so I am biased in that regard too.

As a devout Mirrodian, I understand completely where you're coming from (it's talismans for me).

[Outcryqq]

I have 20+ commander decks built. I'd say most of them run signets. In a deck with more than one color, you have to articulate a pretty great reason in order to justify not including signets. They're reasonably costed ramp, versatile, usually not a high enough value target to draw opponents' removal. I really love them.

[pokken]

I am finding more and more I'd rather hit lands. I still play signet and talisman in ephara but if any sort of option presented itself id cut signet. Talisman makes displacer Mana so probably always stays.

The thing I do prefer about signets over talismans is the fixing. Ancient tomb and signet casts ephara with even a colorless land. I've kept ancient tomb strip mine signet before. That's sweet.

I tend to run a lot of signets im 4c+ manabases especially when I'm running budget since they do a good job fixing.

But for me they need to do something synergistic before I play them over ways to find land (thaumatic compass or expedition map or tithe for ex)

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Love em, love em, love em. Signets are staples of og edh and that hasn't changed much. I can't imagine the manascape of the format without them.

[Mookie]

Signets are good. They face a bit of competition from Talismans, but they see more play overall due to card availability - most precons come with a full set of Signets and no Talismans, plus the full cycle has been around for longer, and they've been reprinted enough to usually be cheaper. I do think that if you're running a Signet, you probably also want to be running the corresponding Talisman though. There are a few considerations to the actual functionality of the cards - Signets are better if you need the filtering, Talismans are better if you have lots of 1 mana spells to cast - but they're pretty similar otherwise.

As for which decks want Signets.... I'm going to say most nongreen decks. I favor Cultivate effects in green due to those decks having land synergies (and lands being more resilient in general). But for nongreen decks, the usual question isn't 'should I run Signets', but 'how many Signets/2 mana ramp spells should I run'?

As an aside: one thing that bugs me about Signets/Talismans is how much easier they make building a ramp package for 3 color decks over 2 color and especially monocolor decks - monocolors have no signets/talismans available and have to rely on colorless sources like Mind Stone or tapped options like Fire Diamond. Meanwhile, 2 color decks have two options available, which still usually isn't enough to fill out the full set of how many 2 mana rocks they want. But 3 colors have 6 options available (in addition to Arcane Signet and Fellwar Stone), which is more than enough, to the point that things start to get cut.

Anyway, for decks that don't want signets (or at least not the full suite), I'd say that those are mostly decks with particularly high / particularly low curves. If your commander costs 3 or less, Signets don't help cast them sooner. Meanwhile, if your commander costs 7+, you're going to need heavier ramp like Worn Powerstone. Some 2 mana ramp probably still worth consideration, but it does go down in value a bit.

I'll also note Thaumatic Compass // Spires of Orazca and Dowsing Dagger // Lost Vale as two other options that have been growing on me.

[Hawk]

I am finding more and more I'd rather hit lands. I still play signet and talisman in ephara but if any sort of option presented itself id cut signet. Talisman makes displacer Mana so probably always stays.

The thing I do prefer about signets over talismans is the fixing. Ancient tomb and signet casts ephara with even a colorless land. I've kept ancient tomb strip mine signet before. That's sweet.

I tend to run a lot of signets im 4c+ manabases especially when I'm running budget since they do a good job fixing.

But for me they need to do something synergistic before I play them over ways to find land (thaumatic compass or expedition map or tithe for ex)

For me, I'd rather hit rocks - rocks can allow you to "chain off" more, in a way that lands don't. For instance if I've just EoT drawn 4 off of Sphinx's Revelation, drawing two lands feels so much slower than drawing land + Azorius Signet. I'm hugely in favor of cards that cost less than they look in terms of allowing for explosive turns.

Granted, I'm talking a deck like Alela, Artful Provocateur where every rock is also a 1/1 Flying creature, but I've also found that in any non-green deck, I basically always want whatever Signets I'm capable of running. For a budget-ish player these are just as good as it gets, representing both fixing and ramp. I don't even hate them in Green for that reason mentioned; while these are more fragile than a Farseek they are also, again, slower. Most of my green decks eschew their available and applicable Signets but Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist does run Selesnya Signet to maximize 2 CMC ramp that can curve into "Commander + an equipment" later and allows for more explosive play as I outlined.

If your meta has Vandalblastin 100% of red decks and Bane of Progress in 100% of green ones, though, I'd get deemphasizing the rocks.

[MeowZeDung]

I bias more and more toward additional lands onto the battlefield these days, so Walking Atlas, Wayfarer's Bauble, Dowsing Dagger // Lost Vale, Solemn Simulacrum, Sword of the Animist, Kor Cartographer, Knight of the White Orchid, Legion's Landing // Adanto, the First Fort, Verge Rangers, and Dreamscape Artist tend to be my first ports of call in non-green decks that can reasonably run them with any degree of synergy. I probably need to think about Thaumatic Compass // Spires of Orazca more too. Myriad Landscape and Terrain Generator are also quality ramp inclusions that don't reduce your spell count as long as your running enough basics and are in a 1-3 color deck. (@pokken wrote a little mini primer on this subject not that long ago. It was called "First, hit your land drops" or something like that. Everyone should read it. EDIT: found it here)

Then, moving on to rocks, of course there's Sol Ring. If you're meta is more competitive and/or you own them, running crypt/vault/mox is a thing.

After picking and choosing which of the above are best for the deck, I think about the monuments and other cost reducers (I don't own 4 of them, but the medallions are great), then Worn Powerstone, Thran Dynamo, Gilded Lotus, Mind Stone, Thought Vessel, Chromatic Lantern, the talismans, and Fellwar/Arcane Signet.

Only after I've run through all of those are the rav signets are considered. There is an exception though, and my main deck fits in this category: if you NEED both fixing and ramp by turn 3 to cast your 3+ color commander ahead of curve and you aren't in green, then you should absolutely run the signets IMO. They're even better when your deck has noncreature synergy.

I don't think it's "wrong" to just jam all the on color signets in your deck as part of your ramp package. They are wonderful cards and I love them and run them in many decks. I just think that we have more varied and resilient options available to us at this point in the format, and many decks would be better of substituting them for other options. I think it's important to accommodate your ramp spells to your commander and deck's curve and strategy.

[MeowZeDung]

For me, I'd rather hit rocks - rocks can allow you to "chain off" more, in a way that lands don't.

This is true for Kykar, Wind's Fury and Alela, Artful Provocateur type commanders, and rocks certainly are a mana investment you expect to pay dividends in the near future, but you've got to consider:

-They are easier to blow up than lands (assuming a typical no MLD meta)
-They are easier to steal than lands
-In the case of the rav signets, they must filter and can get weird when you need a specific color combination

I think @pokken is specifically talking about hitting ADDITIONAL lands, not just the one to the battlefield for the turn. Think less Land Tax and more Cartographer's Hawk/Verge Rangers.

[folding_music]

ramp and big mana is kinda abusive if you've always got yr primary threat in yr command zone and doubly so if it's a mana conduit. I feel like blowing up mana rocks early results in a gentler game, as mean as it feels on the surface, because everyone gets more turns to do their thing at the natural speed of the game. Of course I run a few signets and stuff myself because its one of those aspects of commander where the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" effect is actually axiomatic lol

years and years ago when multiplayer kitchen table casual was more of the default thing I was running a deck full of welders and Magus of the Unseens and Gorilla Shamans and all that, not to screw with people but to let the games begin without one person getting massive advantage. but now everyone just runs a billion rocks and hand refillers so its fairly inevitable that the game'll go too fast for my tastes and the formats i actually want to play are dead \o/ hurray for progress

[pokken]

For me, I'd rather hit rocks - rocks can allow you to "chain off" more, in a way that lands don't. For instance if I've just EoT drawn 4 off of Sphinx's Revelation, drawing two lands feels so much slower than drawing land + Azorius Signet. I'm hugely in favor of cards that cost less than they look in terms of allowing for explosive turns.

Granted, I'm talking a deck like Alela, Artful Provocateur where every rock is also a 1/1 Flying creature, but I've also found that in any non-green deck, I basically always want whatever Signets I'm capable of running. For a budget-ish player these are just as good as it gets, representing both fixing and ramp. I don't even hate them in Green for that reason mentioned; while these are more fragile than a Farseek they are also, again, slower. Most of my green decks eschew their available and applicable Signets but Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist does run Selesnya Signet to maximize 2 CMC ramp that can curve into "Commander + an equipment" later and allows for more explosive play as I outlined.

If your meta has Vandalblastin 100% of red decks and Bane of Progress in 100% of green ones, though, I'd get deemphasizing the rocks.

If it's part of your core strategy (e.g. making dudes with Alela) it's a whole different thing. I would *never* play Selesnya Signetbefore maxing out on the mana dorks and Nature's Lore in a selesnya deck, unless I had some kind of strong synergies with artifacts (which is pretty rare in those colors). Nature's Lore is pretty much strictly better than a signet if you have access to it. I would play Boreal Druid before I play a signet, unless my deck is trying to sweep the board a lot.

I think @pokken is specifically talking about hitting ADDITIONAL lands, not just the one to the battlefield for the turn. Think less Land Tax and more Cartographer's Hawk/Verge Rangers.

Verge rangers doesn't really let you play extra lands, and I'm including all of the above. Just making sure you always hit your land drops is huge - TitheGift of Estates etc. I do also like Sword of the Animistand Dowsing Dagger // Lost Vale a lot. Boreas Charger, Oreskos Explorer, knight of the white orchid.

Something people also forget is that Expedition Map is very often a ramp spell but can also save your bacon. If you're playing Ancient TombGaea's CradleNykthos, Shrine to NyxCabal Coffers etc., Map is a way better choice than a signet.

I even like Liliana of the Dark Realms a lot.

But more to the point I think a high percentage of the time an on-curve draw spell or cantrip is better than a signet; given a choice between Preordain and a signet, I err on the side of Preordain (or Night's Whisper or Impulse).

Being ahead on mana is nice, but getting absolutely destroyed by a sweeper is pretty common. I win a *lot* of games online by Hour of Revelation after people have dropped all their rocks an dorks.

[umtiger]

Destroying people's mana rocks is the new MLD. I approve.

Signets are great and I relish the chance to get them online with Mana Reflection.

[3drinks]

The more this meta shifts to a rock happy one...the more I dig in and am happy to sleeve up Null Rod. Combining with Ruination to catch both sides of the ramp equation is so clutch. But, you know what's even more effective at slowing down the chain problem? A simple Sphere of Resistance. I'm not advocating for going full on stax, but just making their ramp spells cost +1 will go so far in keeping players fair.

You can do a similar thing with 3sphere, but in my experiences 3sphere is more effective the more competitive decks are - casual decks tend to be relatively unphased by it while +1 to all spells is always felt.