Lutri, the Spellchaser Preemptively Banned

[pokken]

I can't claim to know enough about standard to say anything for certain, but having a free angel with a pretty strong ability could well be worth playing another 20 cards. You lose some consistency, you gain some. Honestly it seems like a fairly small ask to me.

Not sure on Lutri, that seems like a MUCH bigger ask in standard. But who knows, it still might be worth it. I think part of the allure is that he basically turns standard into commander/brawl.

In both cases, there's one place they're both very likely to see a lot of play as companions: limited. Lutri is *almost* free in limited, so it'll be a bomb draft pick there. Yorion is a LOT more work, but for a guaranteed bomb in hand every game, it could easily be worth it. I think all the companions will be pretty fun to try out in limited.

I feel like those factors are pretty tiny in the grand scheme of things as compared to the enduring legacy of the set, but maybe wrong.

[BeneTleilax]

I also think Companion doesn't belong in EDH. I feel like a lot of the commander-targeted stuff has been eroding the identity of EDH. It used to be, you had a 100 card deck, with a creature as commander, in that creature's colors. Now you have a 100* card deck, with a* creature* as commander, in that creature*'s colors. At the same time, as I mentioned in another thread, and you seemed to agree with, the spirit of casual EDH seems to be getting worn down. I'd mind the mechanistic changes less if WotC was putting that effort into shoring up the intangible norms of the format, but they really don't seem to care about, or maybe even understand, how much those matter. So stuff like Companion feels like a tangible symptom of a vaguer shift in the format I don't like. I don't think Companions are as bad as Planeswalker commanders, or from-the-command-zone effects, but its another step away from the format I initially gravitated towards.

[DirkGently]

I feel like those factors are pretty tiny in the grand scheme of things as compared to the enduring legacy of the set, but maybe wrong.

The vibe I get from MaRo is that he cares more about limited and standard than other formats. Which, to be fair, are probably their biggest money-makers format-wise. Although I think in his case it's less about the money and more about what sorts of things he enjoys thinking about when designing. I don't think he's terribly concerned with rules simplicity or "legacy" or whatever. The more rules he breaks, the more design space he has in the future.

I don't expect most of the companions will be T1 standard, but standard is a lot bigger than whatever's getting played at the top tables of GPs. I guarantee there will be lots of people trying out spicy brews around their favorite companions. It's just a fun concept, much like commanders are for commander. I'd probably prefer it wasn't super competitive - if it was, it'd probably get kinda tedious with that kind of consistency in 1v1, having the same card available every single game.

[onering]

Printing these just for standard and limited as the focus is a bad idea. Commander is the number 1 format according to WotC's internal data, per MARO, although "playing whatever I have" 60 card is still more popular (but doesn't count as a format). These would be pretty awesome in most "kitchen table casual" 60 card decks, because I suspect they tend to be a lot less "anything goes because vintage is for newbs, now ante up %$#%$#" and more that magical place where you first get into magic and it's mostly piles of jank. Those players don't spend a lot though, so while they may not have much trouble meeting the requirements and would almost certainly improve their deck by doing so for the companions, they aren't going to be profit drivers. Commander players do spend a decent amount, just check out the sales on precons. Commander players are a fairly reliable source of revenue, and a cycle of legendary creatures that automatically loses 2 of them from the format just seems like a poor choice. I'm not sure how popular Brawl actually is, but you can lump them in with commander players as far as companion goes because they are standard legal.

Limited is where the big money is. Limited players are the whales, they're the ones who spend the most because it's pay to play. These are only ok for limited. Frankly, some are really good and worth forcing, but most are just ok given then requirements vs payoff and I'd want to open them early to be able to dedicate the entire draft to them. Opening one pack 3 is usually not going to work out, you don't just have to be on color, which is simple enough to splash for especially since they are hybrid, but have a deck built to their requirements. By pack 3, you'd usually be severely weakening your deck to force one of these, and you have too few picks left to make up for it. Of course, Lutri is a low bar here, for one of the less reliable payoffs in limited, and the UW one is just a bomb and it's requirements are really easy to meet in limited without hindering your current gameplay much, just watering it down in exchange for starting with an extra card that's a bomb finisher every game. These will be occasionally relevant, some more so than others, but they won't be driving people to draft more, because as rares that mostly have to be built around early they don't present archetypes that can be even semi reliably expected to show up, and I think draft archetypes need to show up with the reliability of a build around uncommon to attract people to draft more. They might make drafts marginally more attractive by occasionally enabling rarely seen decks, which adds a bit of spice to the format, but I doubt it will move the needle much when it comes to spending. I'm writing off sealed entirely, it's too difficult to force these in a sealed pool most of the time. It will happen rarely, but as they are rare AND have somewhat steep requirements these decks would be more rare than even the typical "I built my deck around a single rare in my pool" decks already are.

In standard, these are mostly not good enough for tournaments I think, so your mostly talking about casual standard, and I don't think there's much money there. If these prove super popular, they may drive an increase in popularity for casual standard, if only because it's the only way to enjoy some of these guys.

Everything else is peanuts by comparison.

[RxPhantom]

This is the year of Commander, right? I view companion as WotC's way of bringing Commander into Standard. I have no opinion of the mechanic thru the lens of Standard since I haven't played the format in years, but I'm indifferent when it comes to Commander. None of them seem all that awesome as commanders or companions. I'm sure I'll see them in plenty of 99s though.

[onering]

I could see a number of them seeing play as commanders.

Jegantha looks like a fair 5 color commander that pushes an open ended multicolor matters build and won't draw immediate hate.

Keruga as a commander is similar to some other simic commanders that draw cards, except it doesn't only care about creatures. There's some interesting space there that you don't often see.

Lurrus might helm orzhov aggro. It promotes low costs and gives the deck a bit more reach by getting cheap creatures back, and the colors have both good utility and aggressive stats at 2 cmc or less

Zirda will see play. It presents a new archetype in Boros, the color combo most in need of new archetypes. Lots of cards benefit from it's ability and it can bring in a lot of oddball cards that would never see play otherwise. There are people who will absolutely want to build that. It may even actually see play as a companion as well for on color untap tribal.

Umori reduces costs. It costs 4 Mana itself. There's a deck there. Sure, it's only for one type, but you get to choose the type, and that opens up a lot of possibilities.

[CrazyPierre]

I'm going to play Zirda maindeck in my Jor Kadeen Voltron. Getting that cost reduction is going to be amazing., especially if I can get Basalt Monolith out at some point.
Lurrus I am trying to build-around in Standard, with the new Benevolent Bodyguard and so on.

[papa_funk]

OK, straw poll time. What is the total number of added words + deleted words that I had to do to the rules on the Commander page to make Companion work the way we wanted it to?

Answer on the 20th

Nah, everybody just wants to whine about how wizards is twisting the RCs arm to turn the commander rules into War and Peace. They don't want any actual evidence that might contradict their assumption that wizards is secretly trying to kill the format.

I'm going to guess it net adds maybe 3 words. Final answer.

Dude, you were off by 3x....

[DirkGently]

Dude, you were off by 3x....

Lol, well I don't think anyone else even took a guess, so that still makes me winner by default :D

[pokken]

Dude, you were off by 3x....

Lol, well I don't think anyone else even took a guess, so that still makes me winner by default :D

[Hermes_]

Well this is interesting "We talked about the issue with our friends in R&D. They concurred with the decision, telling us that they had assumed from the outset that the card wouldn't be legal. " https://articles.starcitygames.com/prem ... er-update/