Best targets for Mutate?

[3drinks]

So they're like auras..................

I've been reading them like Yu-Gi-Oh synchros, and it made me sick. Maybe this will turn my opinion on them for the better.

[DirkGently]

Gang-nam-it so is Sakashima the Impostor.

I did notice that, but I assume he'll have some non-human target on the board to become so that's not much of an issue. adding 8 mana to your mutate cost is a bit hard to choke down, though. Maybe you could snag a sweet etb while you're at it, at least.

I've been reading them like Yu-Gi-Oh synchros,

WTF is that?

Y'know what, nevermind, I don't want to know :laugh:

What confuses me is why they say "own" instead of "control". Really don't get why they did it that way.

[3drinks]

Gang-nam-it so is Sakashima the Impostor.

I did notice that, but I assume he'll have some non-human target on the board to become so that's not much of an issue. adding 8 mana to your mutate cost is a bit hard to choke down, though. Maybe you could snag a sweet etb while you're at it, at least.

I've been reading them like Yu-Gi-Oh synchros,

WTF is that?

Y'know what, nevermind, I don't want to know :laugh:

What confuses me is why they say "own" instead of "control". Really don't get why they did it that way.

It was...idk, I don't play the game, but it has to do with these multi card combos that combine or merge into a more powerful, monster, as that game calls them. Something like that.

[MeowZeDung]

I still don't completely understand them. Are they like bestow auras? Do they stick around after the creature they are "enchanting" via mutate is killed, or are they part of the creature and die with it as the flavor would suggest? Can multiple mutates target the same creature?

[Stapler]

What confuses me is why they say "own" instead of "control". Really don't get why they did it that way.

I imagine it's because flickering or bouncing a creature plus its Mutations causes the entire package to move to that zone, and having those cards move to different zones would be a bit confusing. Especially if you played an Otherworldly Journey effect and had one half come back under your control and the other under an opponent's control.

Also, what would happen if you Chaos Warped a Mutated card containing constituents owned by two different players?

I still don't completely understand them. Are they like bestow auras? Do they stick around after the creature they are "enchanting" via mutate is killed, or are they part of the creature and die with it as the flavor would suggest? Can multiple mutates target the same creature?

They essentially work the exact same way as Bestow up until they hit the battlefield (i.e. if you kill the target in response you still get the Mutate card as a creature, but you won't get the Mutate effect). Once they resolve they essentially "fuse" with the creature you Mutated onto and for all intents and purposes count as one giant creature permanent (Mutating doesn't even trigger ETB effects like Altar of the Brood). You can't kill one without killing the other. There's no limit to the number of times a card can be Mutated onto.

[3drinks]

I guess I'm gonna have to get some free draft chaff mutate cards and practice in solitaire matches on modo to truly get a handle on it.

[MeowZeDung]

I was looking at Pouncing Shoreshark for my Bruse/Kraum beast tribal deck, and it just led me to have a bunch more questions about mutate. For example, if I mutate a creature with shoreshark, then flicker the mutated creature with Felidar Guardian or stick it under Lumbering Battlement and flicker battlement alter, how does it return to the battlefield? As the mutated creature, or as two separated creatures (original critter + shoreshark), or does the mutated half "fall off" like an aura would and go to the bin?

[DirkGently]

I was looking at Pouncing Shoreshark for my Bruse/Kraum beast tribal deck, and it just led me to have a bunch more questions about mutate. For example, if I mutate a creature with shoreshark, then flicker the mutated creature with Felidar Guardian or stick it under Lumbering Battlement and flicker battlement alter, how does it return to the battlefield? As the mutated creature, or as two separated creatures (original critter + shoreshark), or does the mutated half "fall off" like an aura would and go to the bin?

Best guess at the moment (though I don't believe we have official confirmation) is that they'd return as separate creatures to the battlefield. Essentially they each got targeted with the blink effect, but forgot they were "together" when they left the battlefield.

[ilovesaprolings]

I was looking at Pouncing Shoreshark for my Bruse/Kraum beast tribal deck, and it just led me to have a bunch more questions about mutate. For example, if I mutate a creature with shoreshark, then flicker the mutated creature with Felidar Guardian or stick it under Lumbering Battlement and flicker battlement alter, how does it return to the battlefield? As the mutated creature, or as two separated creatures (original critter + shoreshark), or does the mutated half "fall off" like an aura would and go to the bin?

They separate when they leave the battlefield

[Cyberium]

I was looking at Pouncing Shoreshark for my Bruse/Kraum beast tribal deck, and it just led me to have a bunch more questions about mutate. For example, if I mutate a creature with shoreshark, then flicker the mutated creature with Felidar Guardian or stick it under Lumbering Battlement and flicker battlement alter, how does it return to the battlefield? As the mutated creature, or as two separated creatures (original critter + shoreshark), or does the mutated half "fall off" like an aura would and go to the bin?

They separate when they leave the battlefield

Like De-Fusion from YuGiOh, I guess?

[ilovesaprolings]

Like De-Fusion from YuGiOh, I guess?

I really don't know, stopped playing YuGiOh like 10 years ago, so... maybe? It's defusion the thing when you separate a purple monster? Then yes

[Cyberium]

Like De-Fusion from YuGiOh, I guess?

I really don't know, stopped playing YuGiOh like 10 years ago, so... maybe? It's defusion the thing when you separate a purple monster? Then yes

Technically it brings back all monsters used for fusion from graveyard then put them into play, so yeah.

[ilovesaprolings]

I'm starting to think....
Mutate's biggest weakness will be removal. The bigger the mutate stack, the more vulnerable you get.
Also you can't mutate if you have an empty board.
So you actually need to have always the board full. That means that self-recurring creatures like reassembling skeleton, gutterbones and so on will be good for mutate?

[JoeyB11223]

That means that self-recurring creatures like reassembling skeleton, gutterbones and so on will be good for mutate?

Yes would think that's a decent idea, If as I understand it the mutate stack of cards are treated as one creature with all the abilities, would Endless Cockroaches as a base give you all the cards involved in the mutated creature back to your hand or not I wonder? Seems like it might?

[Maluko]

A typical mutate creature usually has a keyword ability and a mutating ability. Wizards played it safe with the mutating monsters, maybe to avoid memory issues or creatures with abilities too complex. However, mutate creatures have another nice advantage: they are powerful and their mutating cost is usually lower than their CMC. Which means the best way to play mutating monsters is to cast them on small creatures, therefore boosting their P/T and trigger as many mutating abilities as you can.

So, in a typical Commander deck focused on mutating, you will generally want to fill the deck with non-mutating creatures costing CMC 3 or less with abilities that would be excellent if they became larger. Think Cold-Eyed Selkie, Viashino Slaughtermaster, Scute Mob, Vampire Nighthawk, and many of the hydras that start at 0/0. You also want to fill your deck with hard-to-remove creatures to avoid losing 2-for-1 situations. Darksteel Myr and Slippery Bogle are probably the best creatures for this job. Depending on weather mutate works like meld or not (see my previous post), Endless Cockroaches maybe a nice option because it can return all its mutations back to your hand.

[MeowZeDung]

I am less interested in the aura than the mutate trigger tbh. For instance, vadrok, apex of thunder gives flying and first strike, which is alright, but what I care about is that it's mutation is a mini torrential gearhulk/sun titan hybrid. I could see building a flicker/bounce deck with it.

The problem, as with all aura effects, is getting blown out. I'm thinking hexproof creatures are the best targets.

[Maluko]

I just had another question… what happens if you copy a mutated creature? I assume the top creature becomes a copy of whatever it is copying, but does it retain the abilities of the cards underneath it?

[MeowZeDung]

I just had another question… what happens if you copy a mutated creature? I assume the top creature becomes a copy of whatever it is copying, but does it retain the abilities of the cards underneath it?

This is a good question. Based on the wording, I would assume the copy would be the fully mutated creature, but you wouldn't get the mutate trigger.

[Morpic_Tide]

Sakashima just needs to copy a non-Human, then it's good.

[Maluko]

I'm starting to think....
Mutate's biggest weakness will be removal. The bigger the mutate stack, the more vulnerable you get.

According to the article on the Mothership today, this is not the case. Mark stated the following:

Let's assume this scares your opponent, and they cast a black kill spell on it. The top card, Illuna, Apex of Wishes is put into your graveyard, but the other cards remain, meaning it will revert to the 2/2 Sea-Dasher Octopus with flying and curiosity. To mitigate the card disadvantage inherent in a mechanic like this, you only lose the top card when it's affected (which is another reason that you might put a creature on the bottom). This is also true of other effects that remove it from the battlefield like returning it to your hand or exiling it. For the full explanation of how exactly mutate works, you can check out the Ikoria rules article here.

If I'm interpreting this correctly, then Mutate is a lot more interesting than I thought! Unlike my previous prediction, it doesn't work like Auras or Meld. Instead, anything that affects a creature will only affect the top creature of the mutante pile. All other creatures mutated into it will remain on the battlefield. Which means removal isn't actually a problem at all. On the contrary, mutating creatures piss on mass removal like champions (pun intended: see the article)!

This is really going to be a monster of a set 🤩

[ilovesaprolings]

I'm really not finding the part you quoted...

For either 3RUU or 3GUU (the mutate cost has a red-green hybrid mana in it), you can mutate this onto your Octopus. You can put it onto the top or the bottom of the pile. If you put it on top, the creature is a 6/6. If you put it on bottom, it would be a 2/2. Let's assume you put it on top. You now have a 6/6 with flying, trample, and "curiosity." Also, when you mutate, you get to exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland permanent card which you get to put onto the battlefield or into your hand.

For the full explanation of how exactly mutate works, you can check out the Ikoria rules article here.

That's all from that article

[plushpenguin]

Mechanics Article:

If all goes well, the mutated behemoth you've created will go on to pulverize your opponent and you'll win the game. But I suppose they might get lucky and find a way to get your creature off the battlefield. What then? If a mutated creature leaves the battlefield, all of its components go to the appropriate zone. So if it dies, each card ends up in the graveyard. Any ability that triggers "whenever a creature you control dies" or similar will trigger only once. Same with exile, your hand, or your library. If it's put into a specific position in your library, such as on the bottom or third from the top, you choose the relative order of the cards.

Notably, most mutate cards will generate some form of card advantage to mitigate the downside of this mechanic,

[Wallycaine]

I'm starting to think....
Mutate's biggest weakness will be removal. The bigger the mutate stack, the more vulnerable you get.

According to the article on the Mothership today, this is not the case. Mark stated the following:

Let's assume this scares your opponent, and they cast a black kill spell on it. The top card, Illuna, Apex of Wishes is put into your graveyard, but the other cards remain, meaning it will revert to the 2/2 Sea-Dasher Octopus with flying and curiosity. To mitigate the card disadvantage inherent in a mechanic like this, you only lose the top card when it's affected (which is another reason that you might put a creature on the bottom). This is also true of other effects that remove it from the battlefield like returning it to your hand or exiling it. For the full explanation of how exactly mutate works, you can check out the Ikoria rules article here.

If I'm interpreting this correctly, then Mutate is a lot more interesting than I thought! Unlike my previous prediction, it doesn't work like Auras or Meld. Instead, anything that affects a creature will only affect the top creature of the mutante pile. All other creatures mutated into it will remain on the battlefield. Which means removal isn't actually a problem at all. On the contrary, mutating creatures piss on mass removal like champions (pun intended: see the article)!

This is really going to be a monster of a set 🤩

Mark had a case of design brain, and put up information from (presumably) an old version of mutate. The way it actually works is that everything goes to the graveyard/hand/library when hit with a removal spell.

[Maluko]

Damn, I knew it was too good to be true...

I just checked the article again, and the text I quoted was removed.

[ilovesaprolings]

Looks like maro was wrong...
... i'm feeling really sad right now