[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - North Star

User avatar
Mookie
Posts: 3605
Joined: 5 years ago
Answers: 48
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: the æthereal plane

Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

Eat to Extinction and Vraska's Contempt are fine, but not exciting. Four mana is a lot for a removal spell in black, given that you have access to two mana options like Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, and Ultimate Price. And at three mana, you have Hero's Downfall and a few other options if you don't want any targeting restrictions.

So, how valuable is exile? Hard to say, and depends on your meta. If Blightsteel Colossus or Avacyn, Angel of Hope is common, you'll want to be able to exile. Alternatively, exiling is good if you expect a lot of recursion (although grave hate is also an option for that). As for my own meta.... I don't see indestructible things that often, so I don't value exile significantly higher than destroy effects. I'd usually lean towards cheaper options as a result. Edict effects like Liliana's Triumph are another option, assuming you can keep the board clear.

User avatar
Kelzam
Posts: 135
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Post by Kelzam » 4 years ago

Eat to Extinction isn't for everyone, but it has it's place.

Exiling the removed target is a pretty big up side in Commander worth considering with how much recursion runs rampant in the format. A truism of Commander is that things have a habit of coming back to haunt you later when you destroy them, and Creatures entering and leaving the graveyard are often part of a value engine or game ending combo or loop. For 1 more, you get a Hero's Downfall with the assurance that the target most likely won't come back later. As far as I've ever known, Hero's Downfall is considered to be a pretty decent removal spell, and outside of having access to Red for White for Bedevil and Anguished Unmaking, etc, it's one of the better spot removal options for Planeswalkers and Creatures both for Black that is unconditional, unlike Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, etc. I think there's a case for one or the other in a Mono-B, Dimir, Golgari or Sultai deck. Almost any Golgari or Sultai deck would appreciate the possibility of putting another card in it's graveyard on top of exiling a threat. Outside of Golgari/Sultai decks, the semi-Surveil 1 on Eat the Dead may also save you from an upcoming dead draw.

The cost is where it gets me, but for 3 CMC it'd be too good as a Mono-B card, and we can see this if we use the previously mentioned Hero's Downfall as the bar for black removal that includes Planeswalkers, since we don't have another to go by. 4 mana to exile a threat - including Planeswalkers, which we still don't have too many options for - is probably worth it in the decks mentioned. Outside of that, there's better options, but it could also be a meta call.

Edit: Apparently no one has Superfriends players in their meta for how little credit people give removing Planeswalkers :?
Last edited by Kelzam 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Level 1 Judge US-South
Founder of MTG Salvation (2005-2019), Proud New Patron of MTG Nexus! (2019+)

My CMDR Primers:

User avatar
folding_music
glitter pen on my mana crypt
Posts: 2436
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: they / them

Post by folding_music » 4 years ago

Eat to Extinction makes me feel the same way I feel about every other four cost single target removal spell. giggle. i'd rather play something more specific and less pricy on mana - Noxious Grasp and The Elderspell are recent things I'd probably opt for over Eat unless I was doing a theme deck where the word Eat was meaningful. I remember watching coverage where Vraska's Contempt got played but I haven't seen anyone cast Eat to Extinction online this year.

I guess i was playing Creeping Mold a squillion years ago and I thought it was good at the time >:) it's weird how being an instant makes Eat feel "worse" cos then you're looking at untapped mana the whole time and thinking about when it's worth holding.

User avatar
RedCheese
Posts: 372
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by RedCheese » 4 years ago

I prefer Ashes to Ashes and/or Silence the Believers for the 2-for-1 aspect of them. Walkers aren't usually a bid deal so don't care about them and Hero's Downfall also exists. Vraska and Eat are still fine, but Black has so mutch single target removal and these two(eat and contept) aren't close to been the most optional ones, so end up left in the binder.

User avatar
Sinis
Posts: 2059
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
Thursday, March 5th, 2020; Eat to Extinction and the pretty roughly similar, Vraska's Contempt


I'm pretty confident that if you'll play one of these, you'll play the other. Though i think the named card is better for ease of casting plus more upside.

When do you actually play these?
4 mana is the standard for exile removal in black (starting with Eradicate). Silence the Believers is a current favourite of mine because big mana happens and it can be a complete blowout. It also will grind out Auras, in case of replenish or whatever. When thinking about torching creatures, I wouldn't say EtE or VC compare to Silence (or possibly Sever the Bloodline, which has the added benefit of destroying token decks that lack a sac outlet, plus Flashback). One of the real considerations for exile removal is Indestructible, but that doesn't appear much on planeswalkers.

I don't think you play both; 4 mana is a lot to pay for removal, and there isn't much upside except to be able to handle walkers. The Planeswalker removal is important, but it's probably not critical to exile planeswalkers, unless your meta is rife with Primevals' Glorious Rebirth. Also, it's in the colour of tutors, so, it's probably reasonable to play with just one for that one problematic permanent. While the exile part isn't superfluous, you can often follow up removal with a Bog, or some other graveyard hate. I find my decks are often already anticipating things like Primevals' because those effects can be so backbreaking.

I would probably play these: Never. I would even say the utility is worth the four mana (to breach indestructible and prevent recursion), but that there are just better cards or combinations of cards. Exiling planeswalkers just isn't a priority to me, and the utility of Silence the Believers makes it my one (1) 4-mana removal spell (and even it's on notice; I use it mostly to handle Indestructible). For dealing with planeswalkers in black, Hero's Downfall and Murderous Rider pretty much have a lock on it right now.
Last edited by Sinis 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
hyalopterouslemur
Posts: 3218
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

Four mana is a bit much. Like, I don't play Vraska's Contempt in Oloro, Ageless Ascetic, even though he makes it a strictly better Annihilate. It's very meta-dependent. And of course Eat to Extinction only works if I'm also exploiting my graveyard. Still a possibility; I just usually prefer milling because it's more targeted.
Thanks to Feyd_Ruin for the avatar!

onering
Posts: 1250
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 4 years ago

Only worth it if exile matters, and you either aren't running white or blue or you also have superfriends to contend with. The surveil is a decent enough rider, but not enough to make it more than a meta call. Doomblade sucks.

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 5001
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Friday, March 6th, 2020; Curse of Opulence

Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.

I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection! :)

WBRKaalia HQ WBR

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4747
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

This managed to make the prof's top red EDH cards lists.

I guess it's okay. I'm not a huge fan tbh. When it comes to mana, I usually like to have a plan. This card is unreliable. Maybe you'll get a ton of treasure, or maybe you'll get none. Who's to say.

I could definitely see running it in a deck with some big X spells or whatever, which just wants as much mana as possible in no particular amount. I mean, it is a low cost to run, I'm probably underrating it. It just doesn't really gel with how I usually like to build my decks.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
MeowZeDung
Posts: 1117
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

I thought about it in Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer since I could either use the tokens for mana, or just turn them into something else (a Seven Dwarves usually :cool:). I don't love ramping/fixing my opponents though, and "politically" it's a weird card like the other curses. If you target the strongest player, it may be that they are the hardest for anyone to profitably attack, and thus a waste of your curse. If you target someone who is easy for everyone else to profitably attack, it can lead to some feel bads and un-fun dogpile lameness depending on how your meta feels about "fairness" and "fun" and being "competitive". Mileage varies there with everyone.

Edit: It is worth noting for anyone unfamiliar with how the curse works, the owner and attacking player only get one token each per combat, regardless of how many creatures attack. That means that suiciding in one's smallest creature to get the token might be worthwhile to them. Note that if you own the curse, you don't get an additional token if you attack that player since it says "each opponent attacking that player".
Kykar primer and other active decks (click!)

ilovesaprolings
Posts: 1063
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

It's gold and not treasure. Pirates and revel in riches are not happy.

User avatar
Mookie
Posts: 3605
Joined: 5 years ago
Answers: 48
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: the æthereal plane

Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

To me, Curse of Opulence (and the rest of its cycle) is a bit of a meta call, and an interesting experiment in threat assessment. Best-case scenario, every player attacks the victim each turn, and you get a Black Lotus every turn cycle - pretty strong. However, if you're getting that much benefit from the curse, you may eventually experience the opposite effect - people don't want to give you more curse triggers, so they stop attacking the victim. Or, alternatively, the victim develops a strong enough board position for it to no longer be profitable to attack into them.

And of course, this assumes that your opponents are inclined to attack in the first place - some decks just don't have spare bodies lying around. This is especially true in early turns - I wouldn't consider the card to be consistent early ramp. Alternatively, the cursed player may be more inclined to cast a board wipe if they're getting attacked a lot.

Anyway, it's an interesting card, and a bit inconsistent, but can be fun when it works.

User avatar
Sinis
Posts: 2059
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
Friday, March 6th, 2020; Curse of Opulence
I'll be honest, I think this card is effing dope.

Ramp in red at the most aggressive cost, generates artifacts for artifacty things (like Storm the Vault), prompts people to attack because ramp is powerful, creates a thing that could be sacrificed for stuff like Korvold, Fae-Cursed King, Bolas's Citadel, Trading Post, Goblin Welder or an opponent's Torment of Hailfire...

Realistically it's mana, and that's not bad. At just R, it's a bargain, and I like it a lot.

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 5001
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Every time I cast this, everyone goes at anyone that's not the enchanted player. Usually me. Swear it's got that Edric PTSD syndrome going for it.
ilovesaprolings wrote:
4 years ago
It's gold and not treasure. Pirates and revel in riches are not happy.
Yeah, I really dislike that we have Gold and Treasure being functionally identical things yet you can't use one for the other's payoffs. I hate that at a fundamental level.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.

I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection! :)

WBRKaalia HQ WBR

User avatar
Sinis
Posts: 2059
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
Yeah, I really dislike that we have Gold and Treasure being functionally identical things yet you can't use one for the other's payoffs. I hate that at a fundamental level.
Nitpick: They're not identical; treasure has to tap and sac, while gold merely has to sac.

This has been relevant for me; some cards have Improvise, and I have used Inspiring Statuary before. (But, yes, I also hate that they have different mechanics; why couldn't Gild just make a stupid treasure token?! There's only a handful of cards that make Gold and it's aggravating.)

onering
Posts: 1250
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 4 years ago

I have a Grixis group hug deck that runs the black and blue curses from this cycle, but NOT this. Ramping opponents is the most dangerous form of hug, and the hardest to punish later. While all these curses seem like hug cards, this one isn't.

This card is made for aggro, especially fast aggro. It is at its best when you are only counting on getting gold from your own attacks. You want to drop it on the first couple turns then immediately start swinging for gold. You want it turn 1 followed by dragon fodder turn 2. You want the gold you get from opponents attacking to just be gravy. You want this most in a deck that wants to focus all fire on whoever is going to be hardest to take out if they survive too long, so it can kick your development a couple turns ahead and make it more likely you can get out of hand before someone draws an answer.

Unfortunately, this kind of aggro is a tough row to hoe in edh. It's put in work for me in Munda, but that isn't pure aggro enough for it to reach it's full potential.

User avatar
hyalopterouslemur
Posts: 3218
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
Every time I cast this, everyone goes at anyone that's not the enchanted player. Usually me. Swear it's got that Edric PTSD syndrome going for it.
ilovesaprolings wrote:
4 years ago
It's gold and not treasure. Pirates and revel in riches are not happy.
Yeah, I really dislike that we have Gold and Treasure being functionally identical things yet you can't use one for the other's payoffs. I hate that at a fundamental level.
Well, Treasure can be used with Mana Reflection (since you actually have to tap a permanent for mana) but not with improvise, FWIW.

I do like this curse. Not my favorite, but it has value.
Thanks to Feyd_Ruin for the avatar!

User avatar
Gashnaw
Posts: 318
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Gashnaw » 4 years ago

Brudiclad lives this card. Plus people like Mana so it really takes the target off of you.

The_Hittite
Posts: 55
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by The_Hittite » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
Yeah, I really dislike that we have Gold and Treasure being functionally identical things yet you can't use one for the other's payoffs. I hate that at a fundamental level.
Don't forget Etherium Cells.

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 5001
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Saturday, March 7th, 2020; Lieutenant Kirtar



He's pretty good. I always enjoyed him in the 99 of Alesha, can't really see a reasonable end game as commander. Sun tits-able, reasonable Doomed Necromancer target.

Good role player.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.

I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection! :)

WBRKaalia HQ WBR

User avatar
MeowZeDung
Posts: 1117
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

I'd toss him in Commander Eesha, a gimmicky Kangee, Aerie Keeper tribal build, or the Kykar bird tribal alternate build I'm going to cobble together sometime soon...ish. Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle is Kirtar's BFF in any of those builds I'd say.
Kykar primer and other active decks (click!)

onering
Posts: 1250
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 4 years ago

he also gets recruited easily, whether by Arena or Imperial varieties, and Sisay. He's just really good. Easy to search up, easy to recur, cheap to cast/activate, and a 2/2 flier can get in for damage over the course of the game.

User avatar
Mookie
Posts: 3605
Joined: 5 years ago
Answers: 48
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: the æthereal plane

Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

Lieutenant Kirtar looks.... not particularly efficient to me. I don't think I've seen it run outside dedicated Bird tribal decks, which tend to be a bit desperate for playables (or, alternatively, themed around playing a bunch of old cards). Somewhat interesting comparison with Stalking Leonin. My gut says that holding open two mana to activate is a pretty significant cost, but rattlesnakes tend to be a bit difficult to evaluate, so may be better than I think. Doesn't have to be attacking you , which gives it a few political implications.

Anyway, I don't have any decks that would want it, but it checks enough boxes (flying, legendary, 2 power, 3 mana, removal, bird soldier) that I imagine some decks will care about it.

User avatar
hyalopterouslemur
Posts: 3218
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

The real problem for this guy is, he's Soul Snare #2 for a Sun Titan (or Imperial Recruiter, or Alesha, Who Smiles at Death) package. But I guess there's always bird tribal.

(One of my efforts when DC released season 1 of Titans was to try to build EDH decks out of the Titans, and obviously my first choice was bird tribal. Didn't really do so well. Then I rebuilt the deck entirely and looked fabulous.)
Thanks to Feyd_Ruin for the avatar!

Dragonlover
Posts: 571
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Dragonlover » 4 years ago

I run him in mono-W legends, mainly because he's a flier that comes down before turn 7, but the exile has come in handy on occasion as well.

Dragonlover
All my decks are here

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”