WizardMN wrote: ↑4 years ago
DirkGently wrote: ↑4 years ago
Plus the eldraine cycle, that enters untapped very frequently with additional upside, desert cycle that enters untapped and works like half a pain land, etc.
This is an odd argument to make when the point of the lands today is that they provide two colors. Entering unconditionally untapped but only providing one color doesn't mean anything. If you don't need both colors, that would be the reason not to include them. And the Eldraine lands are ones I would have an even harder time justifying including them in a 3+ color than the tango lands especially if I am relying mostly on non basics (if I had the basics for them, the tango lands would be just fine).
On topic, I think these lands are great. I do think that in a 5 color deck, beyond budget reasons, there is no space for them. And I don't play 4 color decks so I have no idea. But 2 and 3 color decks always have these slotted in after the ABUR duals and Shock lands. I can't remember a time where them entering tapped ever actually mattered and most of the time I can get them to enter untapped anyway. I too am waiting for the Enemy cycle.
We were slightly off-topic, but the argument was "are basics good" and his main point was that they enter untapped and provide a colored mana. Which is also true of many lands that get little play, but are strictly superior to basics in a vacuum, like
oboro, palace in the clouds. Granted, the eldraine lands are definitely less likely to etbut in 2-color decks, so it's a little bit of a stretch, but you only need 1 basic or dual for them to etbut, compared to two basics for a tango.
I've got 2 main reasons for disliking these:
1) I don't want to run very many basics in my 2-3 color decks (moreso 3 color ofc).
2) even if I ran more, I still think a slowland is pretty mediocre.
So the relevance was to point #1.
But as long as we're comparing, the checkland cycle is much stronger as well, since it's roughly the same condition except much easier.
Especially if you're already running duals and shocks, I don't know what you'd need these. Do you really fetch the dual AND the shock AND you still need another dual land and wouldn't be fine with a basic?
hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑4 years ago
Well, if you're playing green, that's two reasons right there. So they're more of a green thing, and of course these also go well with cards like
Farseek and
Skyshroud Claim.
I actually dismiss all taplands unless 1) what they do is really good, 2) they have a basic land type, or 3) there's a way it can enter untapped that goes with my deck. That removes quite a few multi-lands. Also, if they tap for three or more colors.
If you've already got a shock (and ideally a dual) with basics afterwards, then you've generally already got your bases well-enough-covered in terms of basic land type fetching. And I'd run the cycling duals over these in a heartbeat if I didn't have duals but still wanted 2 options.
I agree with your second sentence except for the second part. And I'd say, for the third part, that if it's just a fixing land it better almost always enter untapped, otherwise there's lots of better options knocking down my door. Having basic types is really only relevant to a point. dual land? Great, now I have a fetch target. Shock? Sure, decent backup target. After that it's kind of irrelevant.
In terms of fixing lands, I'd say the power ranking is:
classic fetches
command tower
vista
duals
BB duals
shocks
fabled passage
checklands
filters
ody filters
painlands
fastlands
tango lands
reveallands?
And that's even ignoring stuff that has any extra utility like the manduals, temples, karoos, path of ancestry, cycling duals, etc. many of which I'd rate over tangos although it does depend a lot on the deck.
So yeah, they don't generally make the cut for me.
I mean... not really?
I failed to play my dimir signet on turn 2, i'll just drop it on turn 3? Then on turn 4 i can either play a 5 drop or a 3 drop and a 2 drop? Why would i need to play the perfect curve in the first turns of the game if i'm not playing cEDH?
Because T3 you were going to cast a draw spell to help you hit more land drops instead, but you couldn't afford it until T4 because T2 you did nothing but play a tapped land, and T3 you played your rock. Or maybe T3 you were going to play another ramp spell, which you couldn't afford until t4 now.
Not always, I didn't say always. Even if it's not cEDH, a good deck should have a plan, a sequence of plays that it wants to make. Aggro creatures on curve, setting up defenses for a planeswalker, keeping up counter mana, ramping, tutoring, whatever. Depending on the specifics it's very possible to set yourself back a turn if you're down a mana on a critical early turn. Possible later, too, just a lot less likely since you're more likely to have alternate plays. And depending on your deck, it might be a very long time before a tango can enter untapped.
Sure, if you're playing jank it's less likely to matter, but if you're playing jank then you probably don't need to worry that much about your land package.
