Thought expriment

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Post by Hermes_ » 4 years ago

"
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Post by Serenade » 4 years ago

EDIT: Oh, I don't know what the original item was supposed to say, so I'm just deleting what I thought was the original question.
Last edited by Serenade 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Stop you from preventing combat damage? I mean there's skullcrack.

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Post by Hawk » 4 years ago

The full puzzle is missing.

Opponent controls Dragonlord Dromoka, equipped with a Spellbinder that has imprinted Teferi's Protection. Their arrogance is to declare that there is no card "in all of Magic's history" that could possibly break this combination with a Mastermind's Acquisition.

Skullcrack and fog effects don't do it, as your opponent doesn't exist during your turn and you can't take actions on theirs.

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Post by Dragoon » 4 years ago

Well if they don't have any other creature, Sheoldred, Whispering One or any other similar effect might do the trick.
You can also use trigger abilities from cycling such as Nimble Obstructionist to counter the Spellbinder trigger.
Peacekeeper can prevent Dromoka from attacking.

Really, this is just some kind of soft lock with a bunch of available answers.

Also, that player has never faced Stasis :p

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

no mercy trigger would go on the stack above the spellbinder, iirc, killing dromoka before the protection resolves and not allowing it to be recast after it resolves (since your lands phase out).

gideon's intervention // runed halo // nevermore are easy stops (intervention from multiple avenues).

hornet queen of course.

teferi, time raveler or teferi, mage of zhalfir

teferi's protection on yourself :P

solitary confinement // glacial ghasm

peacekeeper // ensnaring bridge

There's another card I can't recall that makes it so people can't attack if you don't or something?

Fog creatures of course work since dromoka just prevents spellcasting. maze of ith etc.

The list goes on unendingly :P

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Post by Hermes_ » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Stop you from preventing combat damage? I mean there's skullcrack.
Hawk wrote:
4 years ago
The full puzzle is missing.

Opponent controls Dragonlord Dromoka, equipped with a Spellbinder that has imprinted Teferi's Protection. Their arrogance is to declare that there is no card "in all of Magic's history" that could possibly break this combination with a Mastermind's Acquisition.

Skullcrack and fog effects don't do it, as your opponent doesn't exist during your turn and you can't take actions on theirs.
Dragoon wrote:
4 years ago
Well if they don't have any other creature, Sheoldred, Whispering One or any other similar effect might do the trick.
You can also use trigger abilities from cycling such as Nimble Obstructionist to counter the Spellbinder trigger.
Peacekeeper can prevent Dromoka from attacking.

Really, this is just some kind of soft lock with a bunch of available answers.

Also, that player has never faced Stasis :p
pokken wrote:
4 years ago
no mercy trigger would go on the stack above the spellbinder, iirc, killing dromoka before the protection resolves and not allowing it to be recast after it resolves (since your lands phase out).

gideon's intervention // runed halo // nevermore are easy stops (intervention from multiple avenues).

hornet queen of course.

teferi, time raveler or teferi, mage of zhalfir

teferi's protection on yourself :P

solitary confinement // glacial ghasm

peacekeeper // ensnaring bridge

There's another card I can't recall that makes it so people can't attack if you don't or something?

Fog creatures of course work since dromoka just prevents spellcasting. maze of ith etc.

The list goes on unendingly :P
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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

No intermediate steps involved, just play acquisition and attack and must win via dealing combat damage? I can't think of a single card but questing beast solves half of it.

questing beast with infect could do it; QB's damage prevention clause shuts off the protection from TP, and infect via combat damage wins. You'd need more than one card, but:

Chain:

mastermind's acquisition for eternal witness
ewit acquisition
acquisition for temur sabertooth
temur sabertooth ewit
ewit for acquisition
acquisition for questing beast
sabertooth ewit, ewit for acquisition
acquisition for grafted exoskeleton
equip exoskeleton
GIT IT DONE

(add a step in there for getting berserk or setting up infinite mana if necessary to win in one phase or justify the mana cost for all the nonsense).

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

Leyline of Punishment Your protection can't prevent my damage if my damage can't be prevented. And in an epic moment of self-pwnage, you don't have any creatures.
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Post by Random Scrub » 4 years ago

Zacama, Primal Calamity will do. Zacama can remove both Spellbinder and Dragonlord Dromoka during your opponent's turn. Zacama's larger size, various keywords, and life gain ability allow it a way to outrace Dromoka besides.

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Post by Feyd_Ruin » 4 years ago

Note that "Your life total can't change" will still prevent their life total from changing even if you Skullcrack your way into being able to deal damage to them. The damage will be dealt, but it won't cause their life total to change.

The answer is as simple as fetching, casting, and then cracking a Seal of Cleansing type card during their upkeep.

Aura of Silence, Cindervines, Dispeller's Capsule, Executioner's Capsule, Qasali Pridemage, Seal of Doom, Seal of Primordium, Thrashing Brontodon, Torch Fiend, Viridian Zealot .... this list is far from exhaustive.

You're not even relegated just to black or Acquisition - there's a variety of creature fetches that can get your disenchant on a stick, Idyllic Tutor in white - heck Red could even Gamble.

Beyond that trick, there's Astral Drift to stop the combo from coming that turn, and then everyone at the table has a turn to cast a single Disenchant and put the combo to bed permanently.
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Post by Sharpened » 4 years ago

Your life total can't change, but if you break the protections damage prevention (like with Questing Beast), you can receive poison counters and be killed through infect damage.

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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

Stupid answer, but couldn't you just find a blocker for dromoka?

If it's still multiplayer, I guess you could go for ensnaring bridge or something.
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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
No intermediate steps involved, just play acquisition and attack and must win via dealing combat damage? I can't think of a single card but questing beast solves half of it.

questing beast with infect could do it; QB's damage prevention clause shuts off the protection from TP, and infect via combat damage wins. You'd need more than one card, but:

Chain:

mastermind's acquisition for eternal witness
ewit acquisition
acquisition for temur sabertooth
temur sabertooth ewit
ewit for acquisition
acquisition for questing beast
sabertooth ewit, ewit for acquisition
acquisition for grafted exoskeleton
equip exoskeleton
GIT IT DONE

(add a step in there for getting berserk or setting up infinite mana if necessary to win in one phase or justify the mana cost for all the nonsense).
My gut feel is that "life total can't change" is not actually damage prevention.
"Protection from everything" is damage prevention, but Teferi's Protection has that additional layer of wording.

@WizardMN can you clarify this?

[EDIT]
Oh you saying that infect doesn't change life total, so would work?

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago

[EDIT]
Oh you saying that infect doesn't change life total, so would work?
Yeah that is my read -- QB cuts the protection, infect is not life total change.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

For maximum style points..

Mastermind's Acquisition gets Spawnsire of Ulamog which you activate to get and cast 141 Eldrazi and 37 Changelings.

Shapesharer becomes a copy of Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre which you let die due to the legendary rule.

Graveyard gets shuffled back into library (Ulamog trigger), including the Mastermind's Acquisition.

Use Eldrazi Displacer to keep blinking Brood Monitor and use the scry ability of Catacomb Sifter to put Mastermind's Acquisition back on top.

Use Prophet of Distortion to draw the Mastermind's Acquisition and cast again to get Battle of Wits.

Activate Mirror Entity for zero, to put all of your creatures into your graveyard.
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre triggers to shuffle them all back into library.

Now your library will be well over 200 cards for the win.

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Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago

[EDIT]
Oh you saying that infect doesn't change life total, so would work?
Yeah that is my read -- QB cuts the protection, infect is not life total change.
Infect and Commander damage are the two that would work. As mentioned, "your life total can't change" still applies even when being dealt damage. So, you just need to use something that tracks the damage regardless of the life total actually changing.

EDIT: Also, since I actually bothered to read the situation at hand, Qasali Pridemage and Wasteland Strangler seem to be 2 "one-card" answers to this lock. Perhaps I am missing other cards in the situation but if it is really just a 3 card combo, there are a number of ways of breaking the lock with just one card.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Winning with damage without disrupting the lock is a bit more fun from a thought exercise perspective I think; because Dromoka is not grand abolisher it makes breaking the lock trivial.

leyline of punishment is probably the cleanest answer since it plus any commander that can outrace Dromoka will win. I'd forgotten about commander damage despite remembering infect ;)

Prossh, skyraider of kher plus leyline should win the race fairly handily.

Lots of assumptions; generally these kinds of puzzles are more fun when they come with a detailed board state and don't require making assumptions :)

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Post by schweinefett » 4 years ago

time and tide into murder?

I mean.. the dragon exists during that player's turn, right? couldn't you just kill it at that point? or the equipment?

Or couldn't you counter teferi's protection? or stifle the trigger? or narset's reversal it?

I probably misread the puzzle/riddle, and am not answering it in the way that the OP meant it to be understood; sorry 'bout that.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

I mean... isn't no mercy enough to stop this? dread, if you want combat damage too

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Post by Atraxian » 4 years ago

Icy Manipulator
Dromoka gets tapped constantly and I get to attack through her with my creatures.
EDIT: clarification.
Tap Dromoka at the start of combat so your opponent can't move the equipment before attacking.

Also think that Basandra, Battle Seraph might just stop the combo on its tracks (your opponent can copy the imprinted card, but won't be able to cast it), please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by schweinefett » 4 years ago

Atraxian wrote:
4 years ago
Icy Manipulator
Dromoka gets tapped constantly and I get to attack through her with my creatures.
EDIT: clarification.
Tap Dromoka at the start of combat so your opponent can't move the equipment before attacking.

Also think that Basandra, Battle Seraph might just stop the combo on its tracks (your opponent can copy the imprinted card, but won't be able to cast it), please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
it says cast in the oracle text, so yep, it would completely stop the teferi's protection.

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Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

Seal of Removal? Seal of Doom? Both of those temporarily break the lock.

Caustic Caterpillar (or any activate-to-destroy an artifact) breaks the lock where it can't be (easily) reassembleed since Teferi's Protection is in exile.

Find Resounding Wave with Mastermind's Acquisition, cycle it and bounce Spellbinder (and Dromoka, just because) during your opponent's turn.

Let's be serious though, any flying creature with toughness greater than 5 also breaks this 'lock'.

This doesn't seem especially ridiculous, to be honest...

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Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

schweinefett wrote:
4 years ago
I probably misread the puzzle/riddle, and am not answering it in the way that the OP meant it to be understood; sorry 'bout that.
The catch is that you can't cast spells because Dragonlord Dromoka for the purposes of Counterspells/Stifle etc.

But, this isn't a big problem; it's not like you couldn't cycle Decree of Silence, activate Ertai, Wizard Adept, or cycle Nimble Obstructionist to stop any of this.

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Post by NZB2323 » 4 years ago

Obviously the answer to find Battletide Alchemist in your cleric tribal deck so you can prevent the damage that Dromoka would deal, and then you can swing for lethal combat damage with your army of clerics.
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