Secret Lair

[DirkGently]

Eldraine Wonderland is a great value, idk why people don't think $30 for five snow basics is a good price. I'm definitely buying it! Can't wait to use the sleeve, it's really pretty. Alayna Danner is the best land artist right now.

Who cares that the Bitterblossom one only has one actual card? It's much cheaper than any other copy. Why are we supposed to be mad about paying $30 for a $40 card?

Because these cards cost WotC pennies to print. The cost for the art and the box for each is a factor, true, but that's defrayed over the hundreds/thousands of each of these Lairs you'll sell,

NONE of these should cost more than $15. The secondary market value of the original cards should not be a factor in pricing any of these, and yet it very obviously was.

There's a lot of reasons not to price them that low. For one thing, printing them at 15 would tank the value of those cards, and blah blah confidence in the market. For another, they're trying to target people looking to bling their decks - honestly even $30 is very weak sauce, bling-wise. At 15 these would be the crappy budget versions of every card.

I mean if they were ignoring secondary markets entirely we'd be seeing "secret lair: garbage mythics" instead.

[KodiakCutpurse]

So, my five bundles came in today, and it was a bit disappointing as far as walker distribution goes.

7 x Ashiok (including the first 6 drops opened)
6 x Ajani
6 x Gideon
4 x Sorin
3 x Tamiyo
2 x Domri
2 x Nahiri
2 x Wanderer
1 x Jace
1 x Huatli
1 x Teyo

I bought them prior to knowing about the walkers, so they're a bonus all told. However, I purchased 17 more individual drops after, and I hope those deliver a better spread. I expected to maybe get 3-4 of a few, but I never imagined getting 6-7 of any in the full 52, let alone the first 35.

[WizardMN]

I bought one bundle because I really wanted the Cats and the 5 color legends and I got it because of the Planeswalkers. And I ended up with 2 Sorins and I got Ajani with the Cats which seems to be very common.

It is starting to look like the cards are not distributed uniformly but it also doesn't seem to be based on the cards original rarity. The fact that you didn't get a Narset while getting 7 Ashioks is very telling.

[KodiakCutpurse]

I bought one bundle because I really wanted the Cats and the 5 color legends and I got it because of the Planeswalkers. And I ended up with 2 Sorins and I got Ajani with the Cats which seems to be very common.

It is starting to look like the cards are not distributed uniformly but it also doesn't seem to be based on the cards original rarity. The fact that you didn't get a Narset while getting 7 Ashioks is very telling.

Yeah, of the 6 Ajanis I got, 5 of them were pulled from the 5 cat boxes. So, all 5 cat boxes had Ajani, and all 5 visions boxes had Ashiok.

[Card Slinger J]

I'm more worried about what kind of long term effect Secret Lair will have on the Local Game Store (LGS) If Wizards of the Coast continues with the direct-to-consumer business model that they've been pushing recently since War of the Spark: Mythic Edition which is ironic considering that they're still under a pending lawsuit in regards to it. While there have been costumer complaints for Secret Lair it doesn't seem to be as bad as it was with War of the Spark: Mythic Edition where the cards never came in the mail or they arrived damaged.

I don't think it will have as much of a negative impact on Single sellers with the way Secret Lair is being treated as a 24 hour flash sale unless Wizards of the Coast changes their distribution for it to where you can purchase the cards anytime you want like on eBay or Amazon. I also don't expect Wizards of the Coast to reprint these non-Reserve List cards as Secret Lair products in mass quantities though I don't necessarily think it's a good idea since MTG needs the LGS to survive. No physical location to play means less people spending money on MTG.

[RxPhantom]

Even if any of these appealed to me, they weren't worth the asking price, but more importantly, I don't appreciate them cutting LGS's out of the equation. Many of them are already struggling, but they were instrumental in growing the game to where it is now, and the idea of cutting them out is disconcerting to say the least.

[Legend]

...I don't appreciate them cutting LGS's out of the equation. Many of them are already struggling, but they were instrumental in growing the game to where it is now, and the idea of cutting them out is disconcerting to say the least.

It's the Amazon school of business by Jeff Bozo: Make billions off the backs of small-time sales entrepreneurs, remove them from the equation, and then act like they never existed. All Hasbro has to do now is pay no taxes and at the same time promote socialism.

[Card Slinger J]

If a player truly values their LGS then they need to actively reflect on it with how they're making their purchases for MTG. If someone says they like their LGS while spending their money elsewhere because it's cheaper then how much do they really value their LGS to provide a physical location for people like themselves to play MTG? Paying an extra premium just to have that premium experience is worth it If your LGS is more of an inviting and friendly community.

This is why I only buy singles online that my LGS doesn't carry instead of having to wait for someone to buy list their orders to obtain certain cards. Everyone knows that making a wish list for certain cards can take forever but for those times when the LGS has specific singles you need that are in stock actually goes a long way to helping the business thrive. Now it might not be the most convenient method but it's the most effective.

There is a concern that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro is currently trying to foster a new mindset of individuals with how they're being introduced to MTG in which they don't value the LGS as much as their predecessors did. Why do you think they've been pushing Arena as hard as they have? Not every LGS is as toxic as Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro claims to be yet they think they've solved the problem with more diversity than actual playing skills.

[DirkGently]

If a player truly values their LGS then they need to actively reflect on it with how they're making their purchases for MTG. If someone says they like their LGS while spending their money elsewhere because it's cheaper then how much do they really value their LGS to provide a physical location for people like themselves to play MTG? Paying an extra premium just to have that premium experience is worth it If your LGS is more of an inviting and friendly community.

This is why I only buy singles online that my LGS doesn't carry instead of having to wait for someone to buy list their orders to obtain certain cards. Everyone knows that making a wish list for certain cards can take forever but for those times when the LGS has specific singles you need that are in stock actually goes a long way to helping the business thrive. Now it might not be the most convenient method but it's the most effective.

I mean...you could just buy your cards online and then hand your LGS a wad of cash from the money you saved. Makes the same difference.

Personally I give my money to my LGS for the things I actually want out of my LGS - draft, commander, board games, food, drink, etc. I've dropped lots of money on that stuff over the years - many thousands, I'm sure. I don't really need my LGS to stock singles. It's more expensive and way more annoying to deal with, and most of the time they don't have what I need anyway. I'm not that interested in paying them for a service I don't really care for them to provide, and which they kinda suck at.

It's like paying your favorite pizza joint to give you a haircut. Sure, you need the haircut, but there's better places to get it.

[Card Slinger J]

I mean...you could just buy your cards online and then hand your LGS a wad of cash from the money you saved. Makes the same difference.

Personally I give my money to my LGS for the things I actually want out of my LGS - draft, commander, board games, food, drink, etc. I've dropped lots of money on that stuff over the years - many thousands, I'm sure. I don't really need my LGS to stock singles. It's more expensive and way more annoying to deal with, and most of the time they don't have what I need anyway. I'm not that interested in paying them for a service I don't really care for them to provide, and which they kinda suck at.

It's like paying your favorite pizza joint to give you a haircut. Sure, you need the haircut, but there's better places to get it.

The LGS has to stock singles since they're unable to make money on sealed product like they used to. One of the LGS's I go to is supported by Crystal Commerce where you can place orders for card singles and make buy lists to accumulate store credit to spend. TCGPlayer is a bit different where they're mainly direct-to-consumer from the LGS instead of Wizards of the Coast themselves like what they're doing with Secret Lair.

[DirkGently]

The LGS has to stock singles since they're unable to make money on sealed product like they used to.

The pizza place has to sell haircuts since they're unable to make money on pizza like they used to.

How about LGSs offer something that can't be done better by online marketplaces? I think offering snacks, or even full meals, is a great example. One of my LGSs back in Seattle, Card Kingdom, had a cafe that made a ton of money, with honestly pretty overpriced food, but people (myself included) bought a ton of it, because it offered the opportunity to eat while playing magic, trying out board games, etc.

Tournaments are another example. I can't speak for everyone, but I know if my LGS charged 5, or even 10, more dollars for a draft, I'd still pay it, because I value being able to draft paper, and it's something I can't get elsewhere. I'm not going to pay extra for singles (or sealed product, if I ever bought sealed product, which I don't), because I CAN get that elsewhere for cheaper, and with less inconvenience to boot.

Not to get too capitalist, but if LGSs offer something valuable to the magic ecosystem - and I think they do - then that's the thing they should be making their money on, not charging extra for something other places do better, that they want you to pay for out of guilt.

[Card Slinger J]

Let me ask you this DirkGently, imagine If there was a Paper Magic tournament at an LGS where the only prize support was MTG Arena Codes. Why would an LGS sell a product that promotes their customers not to shop at their store? Imagine If this was a Pre-Release Event which is the biggest casual event to build up your player base, everyone of those participants are going to receive something to go online and get a free draft on MTG Arena. Why would someone want to be selling a product that's eating themselves? The answer is that they wouldn't.

The scary thing about this is that the LGS would have to do it If Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro told them to even If they're a WPN store. If the LGS ends up getting rid of the prize support If it ends up being MTG Arena Codes then there's no incentive to play. The Collector's Editions that they started doing in recent Standard sets with Throne of Eldraine and now Theros Beyond Death is a deliberate attempt to get rid of Paper Magic. MTG Arena makes more money than Paper Magic where they don't have to rely on the LGS, local distributors, printers, packaging, etc.

[Cardz5000]

The Collector's Editions that they started doing in recent Standard sets with Throne of Eldraine and now Theros Beyond Death is a deliberate attempt to get rid of Paper Magic.

This makes zero sense...

[Card Slinger J]

The Collector's Editions that they started doing in recent Standard sets with Throne of Eldraine and now Theros Beyond Death is a deliberate attempt to get rid of Paper Magic.

This makes zero sense...

It's getting rid of Paper Magic by devaluing the cards in a booster pack with the Extended Art foils let alone being sold at every Walmart and Target which defeats the purpose of it being a "Collector's Edition". In other words, it creates confusion within the Secondary Market where you have multiple variations of the same card that isn't even a reprint.