Best targets for Mutate?

[DirkGently]

So we've got at least 6 new commanders with mutate. Seems like it's going to be worth thinking hard about what creatures are going to be the best choices to mutate onto in one big group, instead of individually. Of course, they don't all share colors, but all of them are 3 colors so far so there's a lot of overlap, and there's probably a lot of similar lessons to learn from each that will apply to the others.

For starters, since the stats are probably going to be bigger on the mutate creature, and because there's inherent risk in putting two creatures together, we're probably mostly looking for smaller creatures that didn't cost much. Great option that I imagine will get a lot more play being khalni garden.

Especially for powerful mutate triggers, you're going to want something reliable that won't get blown out from under you. So stuff with hexproof, indestructible, protection, etc. gladecover scout, paradise druid, darksteel myr, true-name nemesis, etc.

As far as other keywords, stuff like double strike and lifelink scale well with big functional auras, so adorned pouncer, warren instigator, skyhunter skirmisher, knight of meadowgrain work nicely.

Since the base power/toughness are presumably getting replaced, any existing stat counters are great. Creatures like academy elite and cryptborn horror, or something spicy like kalonian hydra.

Any other ideas?

[gilrad]

Unless we're talking about Brokkos, Apex of Forever (who doesn't care if the mutate target is killed in response 'cause you're beating with him either way), I definitely feel any mutate commander that wants to trigger the ability is going to want to have something hexproof or indestructible at the very least; whiffing on a five-mana or more value play sucks, and a 3/3 flying first strike makes for a poor booby prize.

Edit--dryad arbor looks like a funny way to smash face with a commander that dodges nonland removal.

[Cyberium]

Out of all the Mutate commanders, I like Vadrok the most. With cards like Leyline of Anticipation you can instant mutate, which revives Counterspell from your grave. Since Vadrok's ability doesn't exile the spell, you can do this over and over, so long as you have mutate cards ready in hand.

Though I'm understand how many mutators will be available in Jeskai, since it's not the most creature-aligned wedge.

[DirkGently]

Unless we're talking about Brokkos, Apex of Forever (who doesn't care if the mutate target is killed in response 'cause you're beating with him either way)

I don't think that's true at all. I mean, maybe sometimes, but a 6/6 trample commander for 6, even one that's castable from the grave with pseudo-haste, is pretty meh. I'd think the real value would be in putting him onto, say, vampire nighthawk or whatever so his big stats get some powerful keywords tacked on. Or onto plaxcaster frogling to become a 9/9 semi-shroud. Something like that.

I do think he's more likely to want a target with useful combat abilities, whereas the others are more likely to care about just resolving, so would focus on hexproof stuff. If anything they might be more likely to choose a random token so long as they don't smell interaction.

If you put one onto, say, a manland or a vehicle or something, I assume if the temporary creature is on top, it'll return to being a noncreature during cleanup? And if you put the mutate creature on top, it'll remain a creature? I feel like there's gotta be some crazy stuff you could do with that.

[gilrad]

You know, I've been avoiding any rules-complicated cards when looking through mutation targets, but assuming the layman's interpretation of "it's the same creature, it just has more ability text" holds true, it may in fact revert temporary changes. An interesting angle to be sure.

[DirkGently]

I'm guessing it's intentional that they all (so far) only have keywords and things that work when they are mutated. Otherwise if it had some bonkers static effect or activated ability, you could stitch it onto a land that's temporarily a creature, or a god and then lose devotion, or something else that's really hard for most decks to kill. You can still do that, obviously, but it doesn't really do you very much good since it won't do anything relevant while it isn't a creature.

[Atraxian]

I wonder how it works with Eternal Scourge
When it is exiled all the mutated cards fall off and stay in exile, even if you can recast the eldrazi, right? Otherwise it would be a great way to dodge exile effects.

I would put into the mix creatures with persist or undying. Sometimes indestructible is just the better choice, tho.
EDIT: the old phantom cards come to mind. Eg. Phantom Nomad
Prevent damage and instead remove +1/+1 counters, but once mutated they just don't die when +1/+1 counters deplete.
Yet... Indestructible is still a better choice.

[DirkGently]

I'm fairly certain that, when it changes zones, all the cards disassociate. They'll go to the same zone initially, but on the way there they forget they ever knew each other. So persist or undying (or the new moth dude) will only bring back the top card, I believe.

[folding_music]

Spikeshot Elder is a definite pet card of mine. I'm not sure I really trust Mutate yet but if I did I'd essentially try and use it to build a Masticore without upkeep.

[Atraxian]

Blighted Agent for the win.
Unblockable, infect and mutated into a big body with more keywords.

Otherwise... Progenitor Mimic, just to copy the creatures with the mutations already on them (if that works the way I think it does, that is, the creature is copied with all the mutated abilities it gains from the other cards).

[DirkGently]

Otherwise... Progenitor Mimic, just to copy the creatures with the mutations already on them (if that works the way I think it does, that is, the creature is copied with all the mutated abilities it gains from the other cards).

Technically we don't know yet, but I'd assume it will work. That said, thus far they've only given "on mutate" abilities and keywords, so making a bunch of copies of whatever thing won't be THAT exciting, since all the spicy triggers will only happen if you mutate again, which you'll only be able to do to one of the tokens per mutate card you play.

[Atraxian]

True, but having a creature that can get more and more abilities and make copies of itself isn't anythign to scoff at.
If the original creature gets blown up you have all the backup ones, so you don't get X-for-1ed by a single removal.

[folding_music]

giggling at the thought of making a line of custom tokens for cloned versions of mutated creatures. an entire new industry!

[Maluko]

I'm fairly certain that, when it changes zones, all the cards disassociate. They'll go to the same zone initially, but on the way there they forget they ever knew each other. So persist or undying (or the new moth dude) will only bring back the top card, I believe.

I just realized Wizards wasn't clear about this. If it works the same way as meld cards, all the mutated creatures will return unmutated, not just the top card. If we just count the top card and all the creatures below just... don't exist on the battlefield? Then only the top card will return.

712.4. If a melded permanent leaves the battlefield, one permanent leaves the battlefield and two cards are put into the appropriate zone.
Example: Chittering Host, a melded permanent, dies. An ability that triggers "whenever a creature dies" triggers once. An ability that triggers "whenever a card is put into a graveyard from anywhere" triggers twice.

As for the mutating cards, I agree that mutate monsters do not have pushed abilities, likely to not run the risk of players creating creatures that are so broken they will run away with the game single-handedly. Maybe this is also why I'm finding mutating creatures so boring. But well, we are not even at half the set previewed, so there will be definitively more and interesting mutating abilities. I hope.

[DirkGently]

That's a good point, I might be wrong about that. But we can't know for sure yet. I'd be very surprised if the creature returned with the mutations on it, though.

[Atraxian]

That's a good point, I might be wrong about that. But we can't know for sure yet. I'd be very surprised if the creature returned with the mutations on it, though.

Which brings back the old "we found a way to template oubliette ability" to mind... What if they changed that template to also include all cards associated to the creature, like Mutations, and keep them associated to that creature even if it is in exile (not just auras and counters)?

On another note... Imagine some legendary creatures mutating into non-legendaries or legendaries with different names, so you can have multiple copies of them on the field... Need to find some that can be abused in this way, even just for kitchen table fun.

[pokken]

does aetherling work? Hmmm.

Obv. not great because of its CMC, but might be other creatures that protect themselves you could use. Things that dodge targeted removal and sweepers would be ideal.

[Wallycaine]

does aetherling work? Hmmm.

Obv. not great because of its CMC, but might be other creatures that protect themselves you could use. Things that dodge targeted removal and sweepers would be ideal.

Anything that flickers would return the mutated cards seperately. So if you exile Aetherling with Vadrok on it, you'll get back Aetherling and Vadrok seperately.

[pokken]

does aetherling work? Hmmm.

Obv. not great because of its CMC, but might be other creatures that protect themselves you could use. Things that dodge targeted removal and sweepers would be ideal.

Anything that flickers would return the mutated cards seperately. So if you exile Aetherling with Vadrok on it, you'll get back Aetherling and Vadrok seperately.

Doh, it does sound like if they change zones they are likely to unmutate (graveyard, exile, even vanishing).

Seems like it's just counting on hexproof or indestructible or both on cheap bodies, or some similar protection mechanism.

[ilovesaprolings]

Blighted Agent for the win.
Unblockable, infect and mutated into a big body with more keywords.

Thank god it's a human....

Otherwise... Progenitor Mimic, just to copy the creatures with the mutations already on them (if that works the way I think it does, that is, the creature is copied with all the mutated abilities it gains from the other cards).

This is hilarious!

Regarding snapdax and his juicy doublestrike, what's better than nova chaser for him?

[Atraxian]

Blighted Agent for the win.
Unblockable, infect and mutated into a big body with more keywords.

Thank god it's a human....

Aww, right... It needs an imagecrafter to work or downright an Artificial evolution

[DirkGently]

Others have mentioned them earlier, but they're worth repeating: cephalid constable, cold-eyed selkie, needle specter are all pretty strong...also diviner spirit.

[darrenhabib]

Perhaps bounce back to hand creatures have both ways to protect your *monster* but also it allows you to recast them as mutate is always a cast ability.
ETB doesn't effect the ability at all.

Hibernation Sliver, Cavern Harpy, Wydwen, the Biting Gale, Phelddagrif, Savage Knuckleblade, Selenia, Dark Angel, Spectral Shepherd, Windreaver
Blinking Spirit, Brightling
Darting Merfolk, Escape Artist, Fae of Wishes, Fleeting Aven, Fleeting Image, Mercurial Pretender, Mirozel, Sakashima the Impostor, Skywing Aven, Thalakos Scout
Foul Familiar
Glitterfang, Shivan Phoenix, Zodiac Dragon


It seems like if creatures get exiled as one mutated monster, say from Cloudshift, that they will all come back as individual cards.
They might specifically word the mechanics that they stick together, but I feel this is unlikely because it means it has to track exactly what is happening in the exiled zone, etc.

I feel like phasing is going to be one the few ways to protect your creature and keep it together as one mutatation.
Frenetic Efreet, Rainbow Efreet, Teferi's Honor Guard.

[DirkGently]

Lol if someone mutates a zodiac dragon I think I'll just let them win.

I like the bouncing, that's a good call. Glitterfang seems insane.

escape artist is a huuuuuuman. Gotcha back (I know I'm gonna make that mistake a lot though lol)

[darrenhabib]

Lol if someone mutates a zodiac dragon I think I'll just let them win.

I like the bouncing, that's a good call. Glitterfang seems insane.

escape artist is a huuuuuuman. Gotcha back (I know I'm gonna make that mistake a lot though lol)

Gang-nam-it so is Sakashima the Impostor.