pokken wrote: ↑10 months ago
when you run off color fetches having more typed duals is super helpful. And I run out of duals and basics all the damn time. Like every third game with breena I run out of plains and every thrasios game I run out of forests.
I think you're looking at this from a very biased perspective. The vast vast majority of decks are not running very many ways to recur their fetches, or not many times per game. If you're seeing, say, 20 cards in an average game with ~10 fetches, you only use 2 targets. Even if the game goes longer and you see more cards, or you reuse a fetch a couple of times, a typical manabase runnning ABUs (or a budget replacement), shocks, and a triome will be fine with 5 targets for an off-color fetch, and that's without any basics. Plus you're unlikely to draw multiple off-color fetches that hit the same color, given than for a 3-color deck, for a single color half your fetches are on-color and half are on-color. So for example if you're playing Mardu and you've already drawn
Polluted Delta, the only fetch in the deck that hits black only becomes
Verdant Catacombs, with the other 2 black fetches hitting your other colors.
If you're building for some particular recursion plan then sure, that may push your manabase in an atypical direction, but for the vast majority of decks that are focused primarily on ensuring they get their colors on time, more than 2-3 dual targets is completely unnecessary.
You've said you're running 10+ basics plus abu duals plus shocks, that's minimum 16 lands. If you're actually running out of lands to fetch, surely you can just...win the game?
If you're looking to really take optimal advantage of fetchlands you need more targets.
I don't think this is a good way to think about deckbuilding. You should be focused on making the manabase - if not the entire deck - as strong as possible in totality, not focused on maximizing some particular aspect of it. Running bad typed duals makes fetchlands marginally better, yes, but at the expense of the rest of the manabase.
With no swamps and only 4-5 swamp targets your hand with marsh flats as the only fetch can become a trap really fast.
I have no idea what you're talking about here. You play marsh flats, crack it, and grab either a triome or the dual/shock in whichever colors you need most. Where's the trap? Are you presupposing that you're recurring marsh flats 3+ times? That is....very atypical, to say the least.
Commander is not competitive legacy or vintage. The games are much grindier. There's a lot more life and a lot more resets.
Of course, but the principles of a consistent manabase don't really change that much.
Brought Back is stupid good. Its typical floor is rampant growth with instant.
I think it's a decent card but there are a lot of fail cases even for the fairly humble rampant growth play. You need a second white source and you need to draw a fetchland. With ~10 in the deck, that's less than a 2/3 chance by my math, hardly guaranteed. And only a 22% chance for 2 of them. Plus sometimes you really want to play your fetch as fixing on T1 and this line precludes that. Not saying it's a bad card, I'm just saying it's underperformed as ramp for me.
If you're in Wx two color the brought back package is objectively the best manabase you can be running. And you should have enough fetch targets to go off with a triple cosmic intervention because it happens regularly (that means 9 fetchables at minimum).
I'd love to see some evidence for this, since hardly anyone (cEDH or otherwise) is focusing on this line to the extent that you seem to afaik. At the end of the day, regardless of how much you love these two cards, they're only 2 in the 99, so I can't see warping the manabase around them so much to be justified.
I do like the triple cosmic intervention fetch though, that's cute. Although drawing 3 fetches is pretty unlikely, unless it's late-game enough as to lose a lot of its impact. Plus you need to just kinda sit on the fetches doing nothing (barring
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or whatever, but then you wouldn't even need to fetch a third time) until you can fire it off. And even if you do pull it off, that's 9 targets you need, so if you've got a triome + abu + shock, that's already 7 targets. If you've got at least one basic in each color you should be fine, you don't need trashy tango lands. It's not like your fixing is going to need help after that turn. Anyway we're already looking at a pretty narrow subset of games where you draw one card in the 99 and then also 3 fetches, so we're talking about tiny percentages here. I would do very little to modify my manabase in order to facilitate this play.