To Battle! Battles in Commander

[Hawk]

Had a chance to do a play-at-home prerelease on Friday. Small sample size is smaller than normal, but I gotta say - I was sort of underwhelmed by Battles. I started thinking about where and if any of them are good in EDH as well and figured we'd start a thread about it.

Rather than review them all, I figured I'd just list what I think has a shot.

UNCOMMONS: Most of these are limited chaff (that didn't even feel good in limited). I think there are two exceptions:

• Invasion of Zendikar: While I think this is generally worse than Skyshroud Claim and Migration Path, and I think 4MV ramp is too slow in most decks in 2023, and I think most decks don't want more than 2 of this effect, it isn't strictly worse. The backside is nothing special as a 4/4 mana dork, but it does trigger landfall. If you care about devotion, landfall, elementals, or having a variety of card types for delirium this might occasionally get a nod.
• Invasion of New Capenna: This is not far off from a non-flashbacking Rite of Oblivion. If you can win the battle the backside is fairly unique as a pseudo-tribal anthem. I can see this getting occasional play in WBx tribal decks as a removal spell that also anthems your squad later.

RARES:Several of these seem a bit stronger so it seems like it's worth talking about all 10:

• Invasion of Gobakhan seems interesting in Standard as only the second "white Thoughtseize", but that sort of effect is sorta mediocre in Commander. The backside is intriguing but seems a bit too much work - the +1/+1 counter part is sort of unique. For protection, this isn't worth it - we have too many great ways to protect without having to jump through the hoops of clearing the battle. Also, counters on end step is a pretty weak. Overall this is a pass for me in Commander.
• Invasion of Arcavios: This is sort of a combination of a tutor and a recursion spell but at 5MV, it's very expensive. The backside is a cheaper Swarm Intelligence , but 7 defense points is a ton to chew through. Rare will be the deck where this is good, but I suppose I can see it in places like Talrand, Sky Summoner who loves doubling his spells and also can raise an airforce to win the fight. Doesn't seem super competitive though.
• Invasion of Segovia: I'm kinda mad that this exists. The backhalf is so cool and would make an incredible commander or inclusion in the '99. But having to slog through that miserable front half to get it makes it feel way, way, way too unreliable to be practical. Probably gets played in Kasla, the Broken Halo anyways but man is this card frustrating.
• Invasion of Fiora: Seems like a miss to me outside of Battles.dec or Legends.dec. The front half is a pretty mediocre boardwipe that's gonna be hard to make asymmetrical in EDH; the back is interesting but also very, very slow. (This was also shockingly awful in limited).
• Invasion of Kaldheim: Something something Prosper, Tome-Bound and Faldorn, Dread Wolf Herald. This card is obviously good there although not great, as you need to have a hand of meaningful size (3+) for this to really pull its weight. Still a great candidate for those two, even totally ignoring the backside. This is less interesting for lands.deck compared to Seismic Assault and Molten Vortex since you have to jump through the hoop first, so I don't think those decks will be picking it up.
• Invasion of Regatha seems pretty terrible, since it's just Torbran, Thane of Red Fell with extra steps and 3 damage isn't enough. A strong standard hopeful and I'm sure a beating in limited; not good enough here.
• Invasion of Ikoria seems like the strongest of the rare battles, and one I anticipate seeing often. For just G more than Green Sun's Zenith you get to go find any non-Human as opposed to any Green creature and it can fish for cards in your 'yard as well. The backside is mostly pure gravy at that point, but if you have a free moment to pop it Zilortha is a significant threat in his own right. Probably the only battle that promises to be a staple.
• Invasion of Ixalan is a lot less exciting but might actually be playable in some decks. It's a sorcery speed Once Upon a Time that can hit any card type and contributes to devotion, so that's not nothing. Still, Impulses are pretty mediocre in EDH and when Green runs them it tends to prefer the kind that mill like Winding Way. The backside is perfectly bland and ignorable, and I would scarcely bother to try and flip it. Probably playable in Standard?
• Invasion of Theros is functionally Azorius for EDH purposes, and seems very mediocre. The front half is just worse than Idyllic Tutor (since most Gods and all current Demigods are also enchantments), so you'd need to be deep into a God theme. The back side is a nice enchantress payoff, but I worry most enchantress decks will struggle to get this turned on in a reliable fashion and we're in an era of a ton of redundancy in enchantresses. I suppose if you are in Azorious or Esper enchantress, especially if you've got a God subtheme, it will see play but this is more for flavor and fun than power.
• Invasion of Tolvada:This is a near-strictly-better upgrade to Obzedat's Aid so it's got that going for it. Still, I find 5MV reanimation spells to be pretty disappointing most of the time and am not sure I'll be clamoring to add this to too many lists.

]

Mythics: With just six, I can look at them all too...

• Invasion of Ravnica: This hits like 80% of the top creatures in the format, it hits 65% of the format's top commanders, and it hits almost all artifacts, enchantments, and walkers (and battles). If you are just running Meteor Golem or Scour from Existence for removal without any synergy, this is near-strictly better...but those aren't all-stars necessarily either. Obviously much better if you are planning to flip the backside, so I suspect that General Ferrous Rokiric and Niv-Mizzet Reborn are interested in this.
• Invasion of Innistrad: Four is a ton for removal unless you're gonna get a four-fingered discount somehow, so even though this kills almost everything in the format it's too weak on the front. The backhalf is also pretty mediocre. Overall a miss, but I can testify this thing is a beating in limited.
• Invasion of Tarkir: The dragon players aren't listening and have already put this in their '99. If you are gonna reliably be able to reveal two dragons, this is fine if not particularly glamorous removal. Better in Izzet/Gruul/Temur dragons than anywhere else due to the lack of competition in the removal slot.
• Invasion of Shandalar: I take it back, this seems like the best invasion for EDH. The front half has no real direct analog - it'll generally be better than Wildest Dreams, Restock, Creeping Renaissance, and it comes in a turn ahead (or a mana off, a big deal with recursion) compared to Seasons Past and Greenwarden of Murasa. 4 damage also feels very fair to get a free self-only Show and Tell every upkeep. Good on the front, insane if flipped, this should get lots of play in big slow permanent heavy Gx decks.
• Invasion of Alara: This card is dumb and I'm not gonna talk about it.
• Invasion of New Phyrexia // Unknown Backside seems strong. We don't have a direct analog; I think it compares favorably to Secure the Wastes and White Sun's Zenith sitting right between those two mana value wise at sorcery speed for much better creatures. The back side is a fine Teferi if you can get it, and is worth hunting but not essential. Seems okay in UWx Knight or Token decks.

TL;DR: Green will play some battles, a few of these seem like niche roleplayers, but mostly card type seems bad and that WotC was too conservative with it after getting burned so hard on Equipment, Planeswalkers, and Vehicles the first time out? What do ya'll think?

[darrenhabib]

I was looking to make a Commander Battle deck, but I wanted a list of cards that could transform them without creature attacks. Finding cards that deal damage to permanents (not just planeswalkers and players) is difficult.
Removing counters is a way, but so far selection is minimal.

Do people have ideas on ways to transform Battles without creature attacks?

[Hawk]

I was looking to make a Commander Battle deck, but I wanted a list of cards that could transform them without creature attacks. Finding cards that deal damage to permanents (not just planeswalkers and players) is difficult.
Removing counters is a way, but so far selection is minimal.

Do people have ideas on ways to transform Battles without creature attacks?

Vampire Hexmage and Hex Parasite are probably amongst the best. Thief of Blood and Aether Snap are other options in black, albeit sorta sledgehammers. Render Inert is probably my favorite single-target spell just because it cantrips and 5 counters is enough to win almost every battle. I'd also note that Invasion of Fiora, Invasion of Tarkir, and Invasion of Regatha are reasonable at winning other battles when cast or flipped.

Most everything else is too inefficient or cute - Chisei, Heart of Oceans, Cemetery Desecrator, Clockspinning, Shivan Sand-Mage, etc. Chisei is probably worth it if you are DEEP into battles as an evasive body that yanks a counter per turn though.

I will note that any burn spell that was errated to target "any target" can also target battles, but I stand by my assessment that I'd run Hexmage and Render Inert over almost all of them. Five seems to be the sweet spot for battles - 5 damage defeats 31/36 battles and going down to 4 suddenly only clears 20/36. Brimstone Volley is probably the best spell that deals five to any target although Shrapnel Blast and Goblin Grenade are also out there if you can use them. I guess a battles.dec is also maybe the home for Fiery Justice? You could of course combo up on burn spells (like Lightning Bolt) but Invasion of Shandalar and Invasion of Arcavios are the only ones where the payoff is so insanely strong that it's worth two cards to flip maybe...and even then it seems a bit dubious.

[duducrash]

Invasion of Segovia: I'm kinda mad that this exists. The backhalf is so cool and would make an incredible commander or inclusion in the '99. But having to slog through that miserable front half to get it makes it feel way, way, way too unreliable to be practical. Probably gets played in Kasla, the Broken Halo anyways but man is this card frustrating.

I think it will be very very good in Talrand, Sky Summoner and to a lesser degree Kykar, Wind's Fury . Any deck that puts out random flying tokens might be sweet, maybe even Alela, Artful Provocateur

[DirkGently]

UNCOMMONS: Most of these are limited chaff (that didn't even feel good in limited).

How dare you, I love them all and they are my children.

Most of the uncommons are admittedly mid in commander, but there are a few I think are viable:

Invasion of Amonkhet is okay CA on the front side, doesn't take a lot to flip it, and it's a free Body Double on the back side.

Invasion of Regatha is a bad Torbran, Thane of Red Fell...and I'm just noticing you already mentioned it, but in rares. Oopsies. Anyway I think it does have some places, albeit small ones. But it should be pretty easy to flip in decks that want it anyway. Obviously more about the back than the front since you're basically cancelling out the damage in order to flip it, but getting Torbran for cheaper isn't bad (provided you weren't relying on the creature damage boost).

It does depend a lot on power level. Something like Invasion of Pyrulea is never going to be cEDH viable, but if flipping it is easy for your deck (as it should be for most) it's a 4/4 trample ward 2 for 2 that scrys and draws a card. So it looks fine for casual tables to me. Same for Invasion of Moag.

Invasion of Mercadia is like the tenth version of that effect, but I think the upside relative to other versions is pretty significant if you're a combat-focused deck. You're paying very little for it.

[Dragonlover]

Invasion of Tarkir: The dragon players aren't listening and have already put this in their '99.

This made me laugh because I have in fact already put it in Lathliss. Not had a chance to play it in a game yet though.

It did occur to me this morning that they're another permanent type for Muldrotha, the Gravetide to cast, which may be relevant for the Muldotha landfall player I know.

Dragonlover

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Invasion of Gobakhan seems interesting in Standard as only the second "white Thoughtseize", but that sort of effect is sorta mediocre in Commander. The backside is intriguing but seems a bit too much work - the +1/+1 counter part is sort of unique. For protection, this isn't worth it - we have too many great ways to protect without having to jump through the hoops of clearing the battle. Also, counters on end step is a pretty weak. Overall this is a pass for me in Commander.

I think you're missing both the major selling point and the niche of this card. Played optimally, you gain some tempo with the front and then quickly convert that tempo into a ongoing buff and protection. The battle itself is trivial; 3 damage is an edh sneeze, it doesn't get any easier to flip that that. This seems specifically designed for aggro decks trying to curve out in the early turns and I think it's actually quite a lot of value for only two mana and a touch of violence.

[toctheyounger]

I'm trying out Invasion of New Capenna in Varina. It's low cost removal and tribal buff, totally could be worth it.

Invasion of Kaldheim is essentially doubling your hand size for a turn. In a spellslinger or storm deck that's kinda wild. I haven't looked all that hard at the back, but it seems like a perfect card for Birgi, God of Storytelling // Harnfel, Horn of Bounty, mechanically and flavor winningly.

Invasion of Arcavios does genuinely stupid things with Displacer Kitten. I mean, a lot of things do, but like, a couple ritual type cards and you are straight up golden to go right off, Underworld Breach be damned. It's strong in that combination, probably overcosted in any other scenario.

Honestly outside of specifically quite combat, tempo flavored decks I think most of the battles are best evaluated on not flipping them. You can kind of work around it, but if it's not a sure thing you're gonna get there in combat or burn why bother flipping it at all is my take. They're asking you to expend resources in two different parameters to get a single thing, which in lots of these cases isn't worth it, so I'd mostly be inclined to just not unless the backside fits your deck like a glove.

[Sinis]

I have a lingering fear surrounding many of the Esper ones, because Aminatou, the Fateshifter exists. My playgroup was mad when I used Oath of Liliana in Aminatou, they'd be apoplectic if I used Invasion of Fiora.

[Hawk]

Surprised to see all the love for Battles - perhaps I've judged them too harshly/quickly? I'm hoping to jam some games this weekend so I'll sneak a few into lists. Despite my own misgivings, a few I'm excited to playtest are...

- Invasion of Mercadia: The sorcery speed is unlikely to matter to Quintorius, Field Historian and Sevinne, the Chronoclasm compared to Thrill of Possibility and both these decks often win off a pile of tokens, so the spellshaper side's ability to make more tokens and them pump them could be reasonable.
- Invasion of New Capenna: Is definitely getting some love in a deck somewhere, either Ratadrabik Zombies or Sidar Jabari Knights.
- If I'd pulled an Invasion of Gobakhan I'd test it in Lurrus of the Dream-Den - not an artifact, but Lurrus can recur it.
- If I keep Gimbal, Gremlin Prodigy around I could see trying Invasion of Ergamon in it as a cheap way to loot through my deck and make treasures.

Still not sold on the rest, but that's a combination of having not pulled a ton (with one per pack and 16 packs but like four Invasion of Lorwyn ) and me still not being totally convinced that the opportunity cost of having to take a turn to attack them is worth it.

[Mookie]

To me, battles ask three questions:

• is the battle worth playing just for the front side?
• is you deck capable of easily flipping the battle?
• is the battle's back side worth the effort?

I'm a bit low on playing most of the battles for the front side alone - cards like Invasion of Zendikar, Invasion of Vryn, and Invasion of Mercadia call back to existing stuff like Explosive Vegetation, Sift, and Tormenting Voice, but most of them are a little underpowered. That said, they do have the upside of not being sorceries - they're an extra card type for Atraxa, Grand Unifier and delirium, plus they're permanents to flicker with Brago, King Eternal and Aminatou, the Fateshifter. I could also see their card type becoming more relevant as new synergy pieces are printed.

That said, if you're capable of flipping a battle the turn it comes down, I think most of them are pretty above the curve. Even a random uncommon like Invasion of Dominaria is pretty solid - I see Inspiring Overseer played occasionally, and upgrading it to a 4/4 that gains 4 life is pretty nice. As a result, I'm higher on battles in more aggressive decks, decks with burn, and decks with large, evasive commanders. They do require committing some amount of damage (or other resources) to flip, but 4 damage or so is pretty minor in a 40-life format.

Finally, there are some battles that are worth consideration just for the backside. Invasion of Alara is a massive pile of value. Invasion of Segovia is a sweet combo piece. The ones with stronger backsides usually also have more durability, but if you're running Vampire Hexmage / Aether Snap, then that may not matter (or you may be willing to jump through a few hoops to flip it).

...anyway, I'm currently considering Fiora, Kaldheim, Dominaria, Zendikar, Tolvada, and Ravnica for my own decks. I'm not sure how many will make the final cut, but definitely a few worth consideration.

[Sinis]

Surprised to see all the love for Battles - perhaps I've judged them too harshly/quickly? I'm hoping to jam some games this weekend so I'll sneak a few into lists. Despite my own misgivings, a few I'm excited to playtest are...

I think they're kind of fun. Like, do you play Invasion of Zendikar over an Explosive Vegetation analogue with another upside? Maybe!

I think some of them have some uniquely powerful abilities, though. Invasion of Segovia was showcased in a recent mtggoldfish video, and it's looks compelling. I would definitely consider playing it in any u/x token pile (Alela?) as a payoff. Invasion of Ravnica totally wants to be played in some decks, notably Niv-Mizzet Reborn or perhaps Rienne, Angel of Rebirth.

Some of them are huge misses (like the ultra-disappointing Invasion of Ulgrotha), but some of them are totally playable without ever considering the back face of it.

To be honest, they follow nearly every other mechanic released in an expansion: a small number of playables plus a lot of chaff.

[DirkGently]

What I like about battles is that they provide a way for aggressive strategies to benefit without killing their opponents faster. Battles are kind of a way for an aggro deck to generate the value of a midrange deck via beatdown rather than via ramp. Midrange deck ramps up to big bombs, aggro deck gets bombs by virtue of being able to force damage in combat. Ofc that's not to say they're all commander-level bombs, but I think the principle is excellent. Aggro decks need a leg up and people need better incentives to get into combat. Win win in my book.

There are also some political angles, though admittedly those angles are somewhat limited with the current stock. Will be a lot more interesting when we get more battles with targets or symmetrical effects. "I'll trigger his invasion of the path that leads to exile if you promise to target his Muldrotha with it", "Attack your invasion of the wrath of god", etc.

[Ruiner]

I finally got to draw and play a battle last night.

I was playing my Zareth San, the Trickster deck, full of little unblockable dudes, equipment, and theft effects. I dropped Invasion of Amonkhet and was very happy. The ETB does everything I would want for a deck like this for a fair cost. I quickly dropped it to just one defense counter and waited for the opportune time to flip it.

I think if you are in those colors and have some decent evasion, that battle is a solid inclusion.

[Ertai Planeswalker]

I haven't played with any of them yet so I might be wrong, but from the looks of it only Invasion of Ikoria and Invasion of Shandalar seems worth it. Basically the front of the card has to be playable as if it were its own card. The fact they can flip into something else too is just gravy but you pay for it by sacrificing tempo to deal with your own card so I don't see the fact that they have a backside as something worth paying extra for the front side for.

[illakunsaa]

I've played Invasion of Fiora // Marchesa, Resolute Monarch couple of times in a jund spider turbo fog deck and I think it's pretty decent. It's pretty easy to give to an opponent who has only non legends and then defeat the battle on the same turn.