SCD: Gifts Ungiven

[duducrash]

I wish people had to announce what thet are tutoring when casting. I think power level wise its safe. Its a bit bananas with breach/past in flames but what isnt. It just takes too long too often

[BeneTleilax]

Budget arguments are valid arguments. Bring back gifts, reanimator has not been that scary in a while.

[pokken]

I wish people had to announce what thet are tutoring when casting. I think power level wise its safe. Its a bit bananas with breach/past in flames but what isnt. It just takes too long too often

People who don't have mental shortcut packages when they cast tutors like this are Timelords and need a good social contracting.

This is a thing I say out loud now. When someone waits until their upkeep to landtax, I'm like "Please feel free to do that ahead of time and if someone kills it we can have you shuffle."

[Sinis]

I wish people had to announce what thet are tutoring when casting. I think power level wise its safe. Its a bit bananas with breach/past in flames but what isnt. It just takes too long too often

You can ask, while it's on the stack "Are you going to win with it?" If they say "Yes" or decline to answer, counter it.

---

I also stand by everything I've said previously. Honestly, it feels like such a waste because it could be a good political card where people give you a thing you want and an answer they need in exchange for your use of the answer. Further, anyone 'breaking' this card knows what they're doing, and would be doing it with Protean Hulk, Doomsday, etc.

[Mookie]

I've historically been against a Gifts Ungiven unban - I do think that it would be an immediate include in most decks that can run it, and it is a powerful combo enabler. I also believe that it is meaningfully more powerful than Intuition, and it can definitely cause time issues due to the whole 'tutoring for four cards' thing.

....on the other hand, similar to Fact or Fiction, it is an extremely interesting card to play with when cast for value, and it opens up a lot of diplomatic opportunities in multiplayer. Plus I haven't seen Unburial Rites cast in ages. I'll also agree with the 'budget replacement for Intuition' argument (although I'll note that if Gifts is unbanned, it will likely spike in price significantly).

...so I guess my current opinion is 'keep banned if you're pessimistic re: how often Gifts will be used to combo, unban if you're optimistic about it being a value card'. Looking at my own decks, the balance is currently roughly balanced between using it as a combo vs value card (leaning slightly towards value), so I'm currently neutral on the topic.

[DirkGently]

People who don't have mental shortcut packages when they cast tutors like this are Timelords and need a good social contracting.

This is a thing I say out loud now. When someone waits until their upkeep to landtax, I'm like "Please feel free to do that ahead of time and if someone kills it we can have you shuffle."

Whenever someone waits until endstep to crack their fetchland my eyes roll clear out of my head.

I like using social contract as a verb lol.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Weirdly formatted double post, whoopsie

[TheAmericanSpirit]

People who don't have mental shortcut packages when they cast tutors like this are Timelords and need a good social contracting.

This is a thing I say out loud now. When someone waits until their upkeep to landtax, I'm like "Please feel free to do that ahead of time and if someone kills it we can have you shuffle."

Whenever someone waits until endstep to crack their fetchland my eyes roll clear out of my head.

I like using social contract as a verb lol.

"We don't take too kindly to time wasting 'round these parts. Waiting to crack a fetch like there's a stifle behind every corner? That'll earn you a social contracting. Tutoring without a predetermined target? That's a social contracting too. Casting warp world into Eye of the storm? You bet that's a social contracting. Y'all take care now and don't stir up no trouble, y'hear?"

[DirkGently]

"We don't take too kindly to time wasting 'round these parts. Waiting to crack a fetch like there's a stifle behind every corner? That'll earn you a social contracting. Tutoring without a predetermined target? That's a social contracting too. Casting warp world into Eye of the storm? You bet that's a social contracting. Y'all take care now and don't stir up no trouble, y'hear?"

Lol, I agree except with tutoring without a predetermined target. A lot of the value in a tutor is the flexibility, unless you're playing a combo deck that always tutors the same things which is boring.

Try to be quick, though, ofc. It shouldn't take longer than about a minute to resolve.

[pokken]

Lol, I agree except with tutoring without a predetermined target. A lot of the value in a tutor is the flexibility, unless you're playing a combo deck that always tutors the same things which is boring.

I think "predetermined target" is overstating it but the general idea of "have a good idea of what you're looking for" is sound Sometimes I forget what's in my deck and get reminded of something mid-tutor, but usually I know exactly what I want.

With a card like Gifts or Intuition you had better have shortcuts because the complexity involved in those packages is very high sometimes.

[Myllior]

With a card like Gifts or Intuition you had better have shortcuts because the complexity involved in those packages is very high sometimes.

There's certainly a lot of complexity in these cards. If you're using it reactively to deal with a threat, then the political play (a la Tasigur) is there to help ensure you get the right cards to handle the situation, which simplifies matters. However, if you're using it proactively as a combo piece, then you're going to hit the upper end of Fact or Fiction complexity; in this case, practice and planning before the game are key. Much like the Gifts Storm deck in Modern, using Gifts Ungiven in a timely and effective manner will be about knowing your piles ahead of time, a la Doomsday.

Inertia is often one reason that a card is kept on a ban list. In the case of Gifts Ungiven I think the creative and interactive gameplay it can promote would make it an actively good addition to the format, so there should be an impetus to get the card unbanned ASAP. Just my 2c.

[duducrash]

Lol, I agree except with tutoring without a predetermined target. A lot of the value in a tutor is the flexibility, unless you're playing a combo deck that always tutors the same things which is boring.

I think "predetermined target" is overstating it but the general idea of "have a good idea of what you're looking for" is sound Sometimes I forget what's in my deck and get reminded of something mid-tutor, but usually I know exactly what I want.

With a card like Gifts or Intuition you had better have shortcuts because the complexity involved in those packages is very high sometimes.

The one thing that gets me is desperstion tutors. Oponent activates sissay and just look trough the 70 remaining cards for sometging they dont even know.