Aftermath commander roundup

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Didn't we just do this? Jesus.

Well, here we go again I guess.

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Tazri, Stalwart Survivor

Power: C
Design: D

I know my design grade is pretty mean but I cannot get over how ugly the wording is. Feels massively overdesigned. I don't really see him being very good either, you're disincentivized from playing tap ability creatures since it kinda negates the first ability, so you're just playing a bunch of mana sink creatures? I can't really see how this is supposed to work, honestly, it seems like best case scenario you're just begging to get wrathed. I'll believe it when I see it, I guess.

Arni Metalbrow

Power: C
Design: C-

Kind of an insane ability, you get to combat cascade your entire hand into play tapped and attacking so long as your most expensive thing is already in play (and nothing has equal mv) (and you can afford to pay 2 for each creature). That said, he seems like maybe more of a 99 card since the setup seems kinda difficult and mono-red is fairly restrictive. Still, it seems like he can probably do something broken - you just need to get something expensive into play first, and I'm not really sure how you'd do that in mono-red reliably. Pray you draw Sneak Attack? Seems very feast or famine.

Plargg and Nassari

Power: B
Design: A-

Very much a standalone value piece, I can't think of a ton of ways to synergize here since you have very little control over what you're going to cast. I guess there are some ways to get value from casting cards from exile (Nalfeshnee, Passionate Archaeologist) but idk that I'd want to give my opponents more reason to want to kill this dude(s). As a standalone value piece, it's pretty reminiscent of Etali, Primal Storm - it costs 1 less, doesn't need to get into combat but can't expedite its trigger with haste, always "hits" but is capped at 2 spells and never gets the "best" one (unless politics or dumbness). Having played Etali, he's sweet, but the spells you get can often be less than helpful since they're often based on synergies you largely won't have - though being less combat-focused might help reduce your need to close the game quickly, and you can maybe build into synergies over time. Besides a smattering of ramp to get to 5, I'm not really sure what the rest of this deck looks like, so most likely they'll see more play in the 99 - but I might give them a try in the CZ.

Nissa, Resurgent Animist

Power: B
Design: C

My initial thought with creature Nissa is that she's another boring elf/elemental tribal option, but that's not exactly true. She does get extra value from those types, but she tunnels into them, so you can still get plenty of value, and potentially more value, with just a couple of them in your deck. There's very likely some combo nonsense that could be done on that front. In addition, she's a lotus cobra in the command zone, which makes her Azusa, Lost but Seeking-esque in terms of generating a lot of mana early in the game. She doesn't ramp permanently like Azusa, though, so you'll probably want to fuel her with other ramp spells. Overall she seems relatively good-stuffy ramp based. I think the most obvious elves to get are ones that fetch lands into play so that you continue to fuel her abilities and play big bomby stuff. Or a potentially combo commander. Definitely will see some play in the 99 as well.

Calix, Guided by Fate

Power: B-
Design: B

Thank god it's not another "play enchantment draw card" enchantress commander. Obviously there's a little payoff for playing a volume of enchantments but it's not really enough to be compulsory. So I can definitely see a version of Calix that uses a smaller number of high-impact enchantments that are great to copy, and either auras + evasive creatures, or evasion-granting equipment to get the commander through. Making a copy of Doubling Season or Mirari's Wake seems like a pretty sweet payoff, and I like the limitation that it only works once per turn to disincentivize just running a million enchantments like every other enchantress deck.

Danitha, New Benalia's Light

Power: C
Design: B-

Vigilance, trample, lifelink is a pretty solid set of abilities for a voltron commander since it has built-in evasion to make it much easier to get damage through, and vigilance/lifelink means it plays defense as well as offense. Voltron is generally a pretty weak archetype, and she doesn't speed it up, though she does provide some extra durability.

Jirina, Dauntless General

Power: D
Design: C-

I can't really imagine someone playing this as a commander. Grave hate on entering is not really when I'd prefer to have it, and setting up a reactive protection against board wipes is less effective when it's so predictable. I can imagine a deck running her alongside boardwipes to do a plague wind, but that doesn't seem exciting enough to build a deck around really.

Jolrael, Voice of Zhalfir

Power: C+
Design: B-

I've moved around a bit on this. The land creature Coastal Piracy is potentially strong, but making lands creatures is so risky, and expensive too since it basically costs you 1 mana to attack. There are a few cards that make it look really good, but otherwise I'd be very wary. On the other hand, just animating one land into a massive flyer could be pretty okay, and it gives you a free card every turn so long as you connect. And there are a decent sampling of indestructible lands to target as well. I'm not super excited about her personally, but I do think she's a decent design for a land-creature based commander.

Kiora, Sovereign of the Deep

Power: C-
Design: C

Lord do I hate sea monster tribal. As far as payoffs go, it's fine I guess. It's kinda just cascade, but not quite, so it's sort of unique? I don't think the power level is too egregious and I do like that the mana value matters so you aren't just jamming in 1mv changelings. I want to get more angry at her because I hate wotc making meme decks into real decks, but that ship has sailed and honestly her design is fine if you're into this sort of thing.

Nahiri, Forged in Fury

Power: C
Design: D

It really boggles my mind the way wotc designs some of these commanders. They keep trying to make a commander that pays you off for having a bunch of separate creatures each equipped with something. Probably the best one they've ever designed was Nahiri, the Lithomancer. But for new Nahiri, Jor Kadeen, First Goldwarden, Dalakos, Crafter of Wonders, Halvar, God of Battle // Sword of the Realms, Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith, there's a really obvious problem - if you've got all these equipment around, and you've got a commander with solid stats...why the hell would you bother equipping your other creatures? Your commander can kill people in 1-2 hits! You're supposed to dedicate a bunch of slots of the deck to other creatures just so you can justify NOT equipping it to the obvious target? Nahiri admittedly has a better payoff than most, but I can't look at a 5-power 2-drop and not immediately think "I'm putting all my swords on that". So she's kinda okay, but I find the design choices really frustrating.

Narset, Enlightened Exile

Power: B-
Design: B

Woo a narset who isn't cancer (probably). I like her ability to target any graveyard. I like how she's restricted by cmc but provides a way to reduce that restriction. I like that she exiles the original so it can't get too repetitive. Overall a lot of good design choices. I'm not that excited about the teamwide prowess, but it's fine and other people seem to be into it. Overall I think she's one of the standouts of the set.

Nashi, Moon's Legacy

Power: C
Design: C-

It looks very similar to Narset, but I'm way less interested in rat tribal or legendary tribal, and I think there are more logical options for both archetypes anyway. Plus it's restricted to your own graveyard, which is lame. Big meh.

Niv-Mizzet, Supreme

Power: B+
Design: B

Turns out adding sour cream and tomato was all it took to make me like niv mizzet, one of my most hated characters-as-a-card since 2009. It's hard for me to say for sure, but at least from first blush it seems like they fixed a lot of issues with similar designs. Unlike Kess, Dissident Mage it doesn't prevent casting on enemy turns, it doesn't prevent your own interaction like Lier, Disciple of the Drowned, and unlike (every blue spell-based commander) it doesn't synergize with time magic. It also feels pretty balanced between the bi-color restriction and being forced to discard, though of course the discard also presents an opportunity to circumvent or even exploit the cost (squee, madness, etc). Does seem like it could be really strong still, but it's complex enough that I'm interested in giving it a try.

Ob Nixilis, Captive Kingpin

Power: B+
Design: D+

Small rant, I really don't love when they pair a value bonus with a threat bonus. Like, maybe you could get away with just cooking up some nice CA for yourself, but then also your highly evasive commander decides he needs to get massive and now everyone's going to by pointing their removal at him. That said, he's still really strong potentially, there are a million effects that drain everyone for 1 or ping everyone for 1 in those colors, so you could easily storm your way through a lot of your deck pretty quickly. I really don't like decks that tend to spend endless turns churning through their decks, so I'm not into it.

Pia Nalaar, Consul of Revival

Power: C-
Design: B

The more I've looked at her, the more I like her. She's a small value piece, but she definitely has the potential to generate some nice combat-oriented value. I do think trying to make a cast-from-exile deck, especially where the commander doesn't help you do it, is fairly difficult, but at least she looks like a fun way to pay if off.

Rocco, Street Chef

Power: C+
Design: A-

Rocco fixes a lot of the design problems in other group hug-ish commanders. He doesn't force the group hug upon anyone, but he does incentivize it. He gives you some inherent value even if nobody wants to play ball. And the payoff you get is interesting since it's not obviously strong, so he takes some work to really exploit. The cards being exiled also means everyone gets a good look at what's going down, which can create a minor Telepathy-like effect that can sow some juicy discord. Price is right, too, at just 3. I dig it.

Samut, Vizier of Naktamun

Power: D+
Design: B-

In a multiplayer game there's a good chance someone is open to get damage through, especially since people are disincentivized from trading. And there are some ways to make a lot of tokens with haste. That said, the payoff here seems somewhat middling. Typically if you're doing a big hasty alpha strike, the thing you want is for the alpha strike to kill people, not for it to set up a future alpha strike again. That said, the cost is quite low and the body isn't bad, and likely draws you a card when played. Definitely lags behind Goro-Goro and Satoru, but I do think it's a cute, tight design that doesn't get overly fancy.

Sarkhan, Soul Aflame

Power: C-
Design: C+

Ah, Sarkhan, and his love of ruining good draft formats. He's obviously got a lot of overlap with other dragon commanders, though his restrictive colors make him slightly unique? I'm not surprised that he's as unpopular as he is, given that he's not naturally a dragon and has pretty middling abilities - who'd want to pay 3 and need to keep a creature on the board for the same bonus that ur-dragon gets for literally zero effort? I do like him being a temporary clone, that is somewhat interesting, though dragon tribal doesn't enamor me towards the actual build.

Sigarda, Font of Blessings

Power: C
Design: D-

Holy cow does this feel samey to other GW angel commanders. I guess she's the only GW angel commander...oh noes, we don't just need every single tribe to have a commander, we also need every color permutation to have a tribal commander for every tribe...but that's about the extent of it. She might be a slight upgrade on Shalai, Voice of Plenty or other sigarda versions but she's definitely not winning any awards for creativity.

Tyvar the Bellicose

Power: B
Design: C

Now that's a much more unique ability. While it's interesting that you can quickly turn Priest of Titania into an Impervious Greatwurm in short order, that sort of relatively slow build seems pretty mid for a deck as explosive as elves. I think more likely the deathtouch is the crucial element as a pairing for the typical craterhoof plan, with the extra counters as more of a nice bonus. Not my thing, but I do like the uniqueness of his abilities, even if they're probably going towards the service of the same ol' elfball deck.

Karn, Legacy Reforged

Power: B
Design: C-

Boy is that first ability a waste of text. The obvious payoff for this guy is not his potentially-slightly-larger stats, but his ability to generate a ton of extra mana. He could easily be the strongest colorless commander, given that he can pretty easily add 4+ mana the turn after you play him, quickly ramping out eldrazis using cards you were playing anyway. Whether you prefer the setup or the payoff card in the CZ is a matter of personal taste, but I'll definitely be concerned when I see him sticking around for a turn cycle.



Oof, that was kind of a slog tbh. Took me a week to get this finished, and my heart wasn't quite in it. There are some interesting options in there, but I find it kinda exhausting to review cards that are SO blatantly designed for commander. At least with normal sets you sometimes get a Migloz, Maze Crusher that is obviously weak in the format and you can remember that not everything is made for us.

What's y'alls opinion of the mini-set?
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago


Nahiri, Forged in Fury

Power: C
Design: D

It really boggles my mind the way wotc designs some of these commanders. They keep trying to make a commander that pays you off for having a bunch of separate creatures each equipped with something. Probably the best one they've ever designed was Nahiri, the Lithomancer. But for new Nahiri, Jor Kadeen, First Goldwarden, Dalakos, Crafter of Wonders, Halvar, God of Battle // Sword of the Realms, Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith, there's a really obvious problem - if you've got all these equipment around, and you've got a commander with solid stats...why the hell would you bother equipping your other creatures? Your commander can kill people in 1-2 hits! You're supposed to dedicate a bunch of slots of the deck to other creatures just so you can justify NOT equipping it to the obvious target? Nahiri admittedly has a better payoff than most, but I can't look at a 5-power 2-drop and not immediately think "I'm putting all my swords on that". So she's kinda okay, but I find the design choices really frustrating.
It can go nicely in my Voltron deck paired with Ardenn, Intrepid Archaeologist means you're not paying at all for equipment or equipping costs. But I don't think i'll run her as an actual commander.
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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

I really dig Niv-Mizzet, Supreme tbh. The bicolor restriction forces you to play some interesting albeit suboptimal options and has awesome synergy with squee, Master of Death and the cycle of dissension eidolons.

The time has come. For years, I have pined to both build a five color deck and develop my own hardcore control deck based on my experience piloting the mighty Grif. Niv Supreme feels like it was custom-made to finally end my quest and I love it.

Edit: I also just wanna say how much I appreciate the work you put into these reviews. Writing a ton every month or so isn't easy, but this series really has become one of my favorite recurring topics on the whole board. Don't burn yourself out obviously, but you have my gratitude. 👍👍👍

Double edit: since this is basically a full length article and then some, you should see if the site will buy these. @Feyd_Ruin is this the kind of content you'd stick on the front page? I think it's at least as interesting as the crap they frontload on EDHrec and arguably much much better since Dirk isn't duty-bound to bend over backwards to find ways to advertise the functionality of the website.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@TheAmericanSpirit I really appreciate that. And if @Feyd_Ruin is reading, I'll work for so cheap lol. You have no idea.

I did send a pitch to EDHrec once, but I suspect it didn't integrate enough with their marketing. If I'm being honest the primary way I use EDHrec is to pat myself on the back when my decklists don't look anything like their top cards, so that's probably not a great advertisement.

I do like Nivvy, and I was so stoked when I verified that no time magic is multicolored (well, functionally none at least). That crap really is an albatross around the neck of spellslinger ever being an enjoyable archetype. And I can't believe I almost forgot the eidolons after building that eidolon deck around Sefris of the Hidden Ways! Here it's even more perfect. Guess I'll have to acquire the green and red one now.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Feyd_Ruin » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
@Feyd_Ruin is this the kind of content you'd stick on the front page?
We can absolutely slap some formatting paint on it and make it a feature. :)
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
And if @Feyd_Ruin is reading, I'll work for so cheap lol. You have no idea.
I hope so, cause we're barely paying overhead lol
We do pay writers what we can, but yeah, it's not much.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Ooh, I just had a fun idea based on some of our recent arguments - retitle it as "the good, the bad, and the ugly" and give each commander a final judgement as one of the three. Good being positive design and decent power, bad being low power and middling- design, and ugly being high power and low design (I.e. Narset, Enlightened Master, or obby from this set).
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

onering
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Post by onering » 1 year ago

Karn can't actually ramp out Eldrazi, his mana can only be used on artifact spells.

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Post by Avacyn Believer » 1 year ago

Wild idea maybe, but I don't think they needed this crazy story to print popular planeswalkers as Legendary Creatures. It's not like they aren't doing mad things with cards types in recent years.
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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
I really dig Niv-Mizzet, Supreme tbh. The bicolor restriction forces you to play some interesting albeit suboptimal options and has awesome synergy with squee, Master of Death and the cycle of dissension eidolons.

The time has come. For years, I have pined to both build a five color deck and develop my own hardcore control deck based on my experience piloting the mighty Grif. Niv Supreme feels like it was custom-made to finally end my quest and I love it.
You'll be able to upgrade it forever, every year you'll get several almost good enough 2 color cards. You shoudl do it

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

onering wrote:
1 year ago
Karn can't actually ramp out Eldrazi, his mana can only be used on artifact spells.
Oh yeah I'm dumb. Still pretty insane though.
Avacyn Believer wrote:
1 year ago
Wild idea maybe, but I don't think they needed this crazy story to print popular planeswalkers as Legendary Creatures. It's not like they aren't doing mad things with cards types in recent years.
Are you talking about the flip walkers and grist? I mean, those are neat tricks but I think it'd get old if they did it for as many commanders as there are in aftermath. I think they're just experimenting with new player-milking techniques.
duducrash wrote:
1 year ago
You'll be able to upgrade it forever, every year you'll get several almost good enough 2 color cards. You shoudl do it
I mean that's true of the vast majority of commanders (but NOT Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero, she gets to rot apparently, enjoy your boros rebels lmao).
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Avacyn Believer » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Are you talking about the flip walkers and grist? I mean, those are neat tricks but I think it'd get old if they did it for as many commanders as there are in aftermath. I think they're just experimenting with new player-milking techniques.
Honestly I was just thinking even simpler, just print them as Legendary Creatures, like they have done with this set. First time they printed Planeswalkers they were not even relevant to the story, and frankly for supplementary sets the story doesn't matter anyway. I could be wrong but I doubt they attracted more buyers just because these characters were featured in the story. Like who'd get mad with Chandra got printed as a creature rather than Planeswalker? I think more people would be happy they can play with her as a Commander.

Like, how many times does Ob Nixilis have to lose and regain a spark? :rofl:
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@Avacyn Believer So what did you mean by "mad things with card types" and how does that relate?
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 1 year ago

Avacyn Believer wrote:
1 year ago
Honestly I was just thinking even simpler, just print them as Legendary Creatures, like they have done with this set.
I think I understand what you mean. Before the plot revelations in Aftermath, I assumed that the spark now periodically flares up then goes dormant for a while, meaning every planeswalker can also show up as a legendary creature.

But really, you don't even need that justification. Just like with Blind Seer and Urza, just print the planeswalker as a legendary creature. Maybe Garruk gets tired of being called away all the time and decides to spend some quality time on Ikoria hunting.
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Post by Avacyn Believer » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
@Avacyn Believer So what did you mean by "mad things with card types" and how does that relate?
Oh, I meant like Battles and Sagas that transform into other card types. Not sure if there was anything else that different from normal card types recently. To me it just shows Wizards are not sticking to the traditional types or card formats, so Planeswalker as a Creature wouldn't really be such a shock.
Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
1 year ago
Avacyn Believer wrote:
1 year ago
Honestly I was just thinking even simpler, just print them as Legendary Creatures, like they have done with this set.
I think I understand what you mean. Before the plot revelations in Aftermath, I assumed that the spark now periodically flares up then goes dormant for a while, meaning every planeswalker can also show up as a legendary creature.

But really, you don't even need that justification. Just like with Blind Seer and Urza, just print the planeswalker as a legendary creature. Maybe Garruk gets tired of being called away all the time and decides to spend some quality time on Ikoria hunting.
That would have been even easier explanation, the flare up, but yeah I agree completely.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Watched the professor's video about this set, and I have to say that I don't love his take. He seems to think the set would be better if it included high-powered cards, which I think is the opposite of true. I don't really understand the mentality that a product is bad if it's uninteresting. Maybe if this was one of the main set releases, but it's a bonus product that nobody asked for. A bonus set having no playable cards seems like it wouldn't be good or bad, it would just be neutral since it doesn't effect my experience playing the game. A bad product would be more like the eldraine brawl decks that introduced obnoxious pushed commanders, and expensive must-have staples.
Avacyn Believer wrote:
1 year ago
Oh, I meant like Battles and Sagas that transform into other card types. Not sure if there was anything else that different from normal card types recently. To me it just shows Wizards are not sticking to the traditional types or card formats, so Planeswalker as a Creature wouldn't really be such a shock.
So isn't that basically what I said about flip planeswalkers?

At any rate, I don't really think that's relevant to the point of the comic - the likely reason wotc decided to make a bunch of well-known planeswalkers into legendary creatures is to appeal to the commander demographic. How they decided to do it doesn't really matter. The last panel remains the same.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
duducrash wrote:
1 year ago
You'll be able to upgrade it forever, every year you'll get several almost good enough 2 color cards. You shoudl do it
I mean that's true of the vast majority of commanders (but NOT Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero, she gets to rot apparently, enjoy your boros rebels lmao).


I agree with you, but sone projects are more open ended and some are more "solved" what I meant to say is that spoiler season will be exciting and I think there will be plenty of room to toy with.

I think some youtubers made their brand to complaint. Its their job, im all for them to get their bread, but they know what get clicks. I think he put out 3 different videos saying bad stuff about this set. And yes criticism is valid and there is always room for it. But lets not pretend its good faith well tought criticism, its just their job

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

duducrash wrote:
1 year ago
I agree with you, but sone projects are more open ended and some are more "solved" what I meant to say is that spoiler season will be exciting and I think there will be plenty of room to toy with.
I think it goes both ways. Something more specific will have fewer cards they're interested in, true, but it also means there's less competition with existing cards.

And Niv isn't THAT open-ended. Narset, Enlightened Exile cares about a lot more cards, for example.
I think some youtubers made their brand to complaint. Its their job, im all for them to get their bread, but they know what get clicks. I think he put out 3 different videos saying bad stuff about this set. And yes criticism is valid and there is always room for it. But lets not pretend its good faith well tought criticism, its just their job
It's a little tough because there is certainly a lot to complain about with wotc, and then that becomes the culture of the game's commentary as a whole. There are channels that definitely feel like they mostly exist just to farm clicks of people's anger at wotc. That said, the prof has had a decent number of positive videos as well, I think he believes what he says. I just think he's a little impulsive in his critiques sometimes. Case in point, the way he'll complain about how cards are too expensive, but then also complain about how there's no value in the packs. Do you want an affordable game, or do you want to crack money? Make up your mind!

I can understand the criticism that the packs and the set are small, yet cost full price - that feels greedy and exploitative (though much less so than secret lairs...). But the cards being (allegedly) bad and uninteresting completely opposes that criticism. The greediest, most exploitative thing would be to print mega bombs that every commander player needs, thus pushing people to buy them. As-is, it seems like most people are only interested in a couple singles, which seems like an overall okay result.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

I dont think Niv is open ended at all. Its guild matters, just that the pool of cards will make the continuous process of updating the deck continuously.

I think that you are right. They couldve designed bombs that would "force" packs to be cracked. We dont know the power level yet, it appears they want to bring back standard play, so will have to wait and see how this design space affects. If its seeding for future t2 decks and all that. Just a but rushed

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Post by Guardman » 1 year ago

I will say I am thinking of giving Plargg and Nassari a go as the head of my Etali, Primal Storm deck for a little bit as a way to power it down and make the deck a bit more diplomatic. As much as I love my Etali, the deck has sort of gotten away from let's cause chaos to it's either an easy win or I'm targeted down. And it's not so much anything I've done with the deck as much as my meta has gotten so away from interaction to either big bomb plays or combos that Lightning Greaves is purely a haste enabler.

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Post by Cyberium » 1 year ago

I'm super tired of "do this → value" commanders, but I suppose that's the "aftermath" of printing so many legends in so little time.

Rocco, Street Chef is my favorite, for the same reason you posted. Being able to group hug with fair payback, while open to other shenanigans like artifact and +1/+1 synergy is great for deck brewing.

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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

re: 'is this a good set' - I think there are multiple definitions for whether something is a good or bad set, and that depends on who you ask.

For WotC, I imagine whether the set is good or bad is primarily business-focused - do they make more money from the set than it cost to produce? Would their resources have been better spend developing some other product?

My perception of the set is that it's probably significantly cheaper to produce than a normal Standard expansion - for one, it's obviously a much smaller number of cards... but also, they don't have any constraints to design new mechanics / do worldbuilding / balance for Limited, all of which are substantial time sinks. The smaller number of cards also makes it easier to test Standard or other formats. Heavy focus on legends probably also helps - I wouldn't be surprised if they had a slush file of random legends just waiting to be used.

As a result, I suspect WotC will be somewhat happy with the set as long as it sells reasonably well.

On the other hand, players want a somewhat different set of things from the set. If you're a Standard player that wants a soft rotation to shake up the format, then you're going to want some strong, high-impact cards... but on the other hand, you don't want those cards to be too expensive. It's pretty much impossible for both of those to be the case. Your best bet is for the format to be opened a bunch to drive down prices... but since the format can't be drafted, there isn't a reason to open packs other than for financial value. Which isn't really a thing that can be solved either - if the expected value of a pack's contents is greater than the price of the pack itself, then people will crack them until the value drops. As a result, most value from packs comes from investing and hoping the value will rise after people stop opening the packs, and that takes time to happen.

As a Commander / Cube player? I'm less concerned about power level, and more about there being interesting designs and build-arounds. There are some interesting designs, so I'm generally fine with it. I only buy singles, so I don't care if the set is generally low-value - if anything, that's better for me.

More broadly, I view Aftermath as a second attempt at doing what Alchemy was intended to do - a way to keep players engaged for longer between expansions and share up a stagnant format. Alchemy has flopped pretty badly (largely due to Arena's monetization model adding a lot of friction to frequent rotation / balance patches), but I don't think the inherent goal is wrong - I play a lot of other games that have frequent balance patches or other new content to encourage players to return. It's tricky to do in a physical game because you can't be nearly as responsive to emergent issues (i.e. if a strategy is too strong, you can't immediately print an answer), but I don't think it's wrong for WotC to try.

Ultimately, I think my main complaint goes back to the 'cheap to produce' thing - the set is cheaper to produce, but the packs still cost the same price. I don't mind the 'fewer cards per pack' thing, since commons are generally worthless anyway, but it does make the pricing feel sort of artificial. The main way I justify buying packs instead of singles is that they're a functional product - I can use them for a draft or sealed, and the reason why that works is because WotC put in the additional R&D time to develop those formats. That's also why I don't particularly like Set Boosters, but at least they've put effort into making interesting art treatments / other bonuses in those packs. But with Aftermath? I don't feel like WotC has done enough to justify paying full price for a pack.

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Post by onering » 1 year ago

Set boosters are pretty sweet, they're value tends to be way over a draft boosters because your more likely to get multiple rares plus alt art %$#%. Definitely worth it if you just feel like cracking packs. Both products serve different purposes. It also opens up space to not follow the rarity rules imposed by limited, and they could start printing removal and other things that would normally be at rare at uncommon or common and have them only be released in set boosters. Things that don't actually need to take up higher rarity slots if not for rarity considerations, and which the standard environment could use a lot of.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 11 months ago

Re: Nahiri, I mean, I could see equipment tokens (which technically already exist) in the future, and maybe then we might have something, but caring about having a lot of equipped creatures isn't my thing until then, and even then, why not just stick on a Prowler's Helm and Voltron? Or (using a better artifact Commander, like the many in blue) put it all on an Invisible Stalker or Blighted Agent? Or sticking to white, Commander Eesha Voltron...sounds silly, but there you go.

Another issue with tokens and equipment also applies to auras, of course, and warning: This goes into "me repeatedly hitting asdf asdf" territory. My tokens quickly outnumber my auras by a lot when I try to use auras and tokens together. And why should I? Having one token with auras/equipment/more counters than the others just makes tracking my tokens more complicated, making it bad play when the beauty of tokens is, I don't have to care about that particular 1/1 soldier for them to be effective when I have fifty of them.
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Post by 3drinks » 11 months ago

re: that Lin Sivvi comment somewhere in this thread;

Rebels already got their power creep commander when Otharri, Suns' Glory came out. Even works with Zirda, the Dawnwaker a companion to help your wildly overcosted rebels attempt to keep up with the changing state of the game.
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
I did send a pitch to EDHrec once, but I suspect it didn't integrate enough with their marketing. If I'm being honest the primary way I use EDHrec is to pat myself on the back when my decklists don't look anything like their top cards, so that's probably not a great advertisement.
Don't bother. If you don't have a brand and a following, you won't get noticed by them. And even if you did, you only get pAiD iN eXpOsUrE. Speaking from experience here, they do not care.
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Ooh, I just had a fun idea based on some of our recent arguments - retitle it as "the good, the bad, and the ugly" and give each commander a final judgement as one of the three. Good being positive design and decent power, bad being low power and middling- design, and ugly being high power and low design (I.e. Narset, Enlightened Master, or obby from this set).
An argument column? So, that's just you and I bashing at each other with wildly different takes on new cards, right? I'm sure there's a market for that...somewhere.
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Case in point, the way he'll complain about how cards are too expensive, but then also complain about how there's no value in the packs. Do you want an affordable game, or do you want to crack money? Make up your mind!
What he is saying is there's no reason to crack packs because there's no value in them. This is largely thanks to serialized cards becoming a "new rarity level" and that's where the focus has gone - i.e. value cracks. The number of packs that need to be opened in order for these whales to value crack is immense, which in turn overfloods the market with the rest of the set. This is a net positive for players as it makes cards cheaper, but a net negative for the sets as a whole because draft packs at $5.49usd and set packs at $6.99usd means the odds of at least remaining cost neutral (let alone turning a profit) is slim to none. Thus, the end result is the "fun of cracking packs" goes away when the value inside of a pack continues go down while it's retail price goes up.

What they need to do is lower the pack price instead. Since it doesn't cost any more to print ancestral recall as it does to make a snow-covered plains, this doesn't hurt WotC any - if they are to be believed and they "don't pay any attention to the secondary market" since an acknowledgement of that would bring them back to the gambling comparisons and loot box practices they've been trying to avoid for years. Give us a $2.09 retail pack with 9-10 cards in it and watch it fly off shelves despite not really providing any more cards than the current system of pack provides.

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Post by DirkGently » 11 months ago

My LGS did a draft where we started with an aftermath booster and then 3 MOM boosters. Does make me nostalgic for the days of mixed set draft formats. I think the game's attention span is way too short to still be cracking the same set 9 months after it debuted, but I wonder if wotc is at all considering having a little "flavor of the month" booster to mix into draft sets? I think it could be fun with relatively minimal product bloat to have optional 5 card boosters to spice up a draft format 1-2 months in, with maybe a couple variations and ~50 cards per micro set. Labelling the MAT boosters "nondraftable" feels like a wasted opportunity tbh.
onering wrote:
1 year ago
Set boosters are pretty sweet, they're value tends to be way over a draft boosters because your more likely to get multiple rares plus alt art %$#%. Definitely worth it if you just feel like cracking packs. Both products serve different purposes. It also opens up space to not follow the rarity rules imposed by limited, and they could start printing removal and other things that would normally be at rare at uncommon or common and have them only be released in set boosters. Things that don't actually need to take up higher rarity slots if not for rarity considerations, and which the standard environment could use a lot of.
On one hand, if I'm cracking a pack, I 100% would prefer a set booster to a draft booster. On the other hand, it makes draft more expensive since it devalues the cards you can open in draft and makes it harder to recoup your money's worth. And I don't like how complex the possible cards you can open from each type of pack has become. At least idgaf about alternate arts and foils, so that simplifies things somewhat.
3drinks wrote:
11 months ago
re: that Lin Sivvi comment somewhere in this thread;

Rebels already got their power creep commander when Otharri, Suns' Glory came out. Even works with Zirda, the Dawnwaker a companion to help your wildly overcosted rebels attempt to keep up with the changing state of the game.
Otharri generating rebel tokens is practically meaningless, as are the rebels created by equipment. If they were another type it wouldn't really change anything.

On the otharri side, there's little reason to play other rebels since he makes them himself, the turn he enters and every subsequent turn. He only needs one of them to do what he needs, so playing extras is basically a waste of time. If you're worried about a board wipe leaving him graveyard stranded, you could just run a reanimation spell instead. On the existing rebel commander side, obviously, Lin Sivvi can't run Otharri, plus he's not a rebel anyway so she can't even search him up if she was in the 99 of some other deck. In terms of rebel tribal as an archetype, there's practically no tribal support for rebels outside of their search abilities - there's not even a generic "rebels get +1/+1" lord. So there's basically no way to boost up the rebel tokens Otharri gives you that couldn't be done with literally any other type.

But my original point was that Lin Sivvi as a commander has seen extremely low support, arguably the least of any legendary creature, and Otharri makes no difference to that ofc. Granted, parasitic mechanics like mutate have created other presumably-abandoned commanders, but their support cards are generally much more powerful (Jhovall Queen! Powerhouse of the rebel army!!!), and they haven't been abandoned nearly as long as sivvi. And Sivvi is so much easier to toss a bone to. Mutate has to be a whole set mechanic with support and flavor and etc. For Sivvi, all you need to do is put the rebel type on a decent white creature every now and then. They just don't do it. Even when the set is about rebellion (aether revolt).

At least Otharri and ONE rebels let us know that rebels still exist as a type. But that's about it.
Don't bother. If you don't have a brand and a following, you won't get noticed by them. And even if you did, you only get pAiD iN eXpOsUrE. Speaking from experience here, they do not care.
Ugh, that's lame. Good to know, though, thanks.
An argument column? So, that's just you and I bashing at each other with wildly different takes on new cards, right? I'm sure there's a market for that...somewhere.
I already did the revisions and sent it to Feyd. I do like the idea of a 2 person argument column, though it might be difficult to structure.
What he is saying is there's no reason to crack packs because there's no value in them.
I agree from a financial perspective that, for a set with lower value cards, it's best to buy singles and not crack packs. But I think rating MAT a "fail", and the language he uses within the video, imply that the product isn't just best interacted with via singles, but is a BAD product that wotc should be ASHAMED of. Which, maybe? But not because the cards are generally not-sought-after, if anything I think that's a positive feature of the product, or at worst neutral. The BAD part is the same thing it always is - the contribution to the relentless deluge of products.
This is largely thanks to serialized cards becoming a "new rarity level" and that's where the focus has gone - i.e. value cracks. The number of packs that need to be opened in order for these whales to value crack is immense, which in turn overfloods the market with the rest of the set. This is a net positive for players as it makes cards cheaper, but a net negative for the sets as a whole because draft packs at $5.49usd and set packs at $6.99usd means the odds of at least remaining cost neutral (let alone turning a profit) is slim to none. Thus, the end result is the "fun of cracking packs" goes away when the value inside of a pack continues go down while it's retail price goes up.
Not sure about serialized cards in particular driving the prices, but either way, I think that's generally just a win for normal players. Buy singles people.

Again, though, the framing of the video doesn't feel like "buy singles don't crack packs" it feels "product BAD".
What they need to do is lower the pack price instead. Since it doesn't cost any more to print ancestral recall as it does to make a snow-covered plains, this doesn't hurt WotC any - if they are to be believed and they "don't pay any attention to the secondary market" since an acknowledgement of that would bring them back to the gambling comparisons and loot box practices they've been trying to avoid for years. Give us a $2.09 retail pack with 9-10 cards in it and watch it fly off shelves despite not really providing any more cards than the current system of pack provides.
Keep dreaming. That will never ever happen.

And justifiably so. Realistically there's no chance that they'd sell 2-3x more packs to balance out their earnings if they lowered the price like that - let alone make more. And if they did, the value of singles would be close to zero. The number of people who want X card isn't going to change by very much, so if the supply doubles or triples the secondary market quickly becomes pretty much worthless, and the whole game risks collapsing, at least financially. If the game survives, customers stop buying so many packs knowing that they can trivially pick up the singles for pennies.

More likely, though, they'd sell like 1.3x the packs, make half as much money, the secondary market would be much lower than previous sets, and the CEO would get immediately sacked.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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