5 new secrets lairs coming Valentine’s Day (2/14]

[Couver]

I adore the Theros gods so I would have seriously considered this if they weren't in the constellation art. Just not a fan of that style. The Beyond death gods look much better with their normal art. I wish they had gone with the fun/cute style they did with the others. Or maybe the statue/marble treatment they gave the 3 planeswalkers in Beyond Death.

Only Phenax and Pharika look good.

[pokken]

The cost of foil gods is kinda inflated so I'm fairly happy with this attempt at focused cost reduction. I picked up the set to have another Ephara for a second Ephara deck, and I really like a lot of the gods so nice to have access to all of them.

[Atraxian]

They are turning the "impulse buy" to a whole new level of manipulation.

First, you don't get to know what's inside until you finish the queue.
Second, you only get a low res version of the cards in digital form (not even some pictures of what they look like in real life)
Third, you only have 10 minutes to make your purchase, otherwise, it is the queue again.

I'm pretty happy that these do not contain any angel I would need for my collection and even if they had one, I refuse to participate in this kind of consumer exploitation. Would rather buy it on the secondary market instead.

Oh, and don't give me the "they can't have pictures because they didn't print them yet" crap excuse. It is pretty obvious they would need some test print runs in advance to see if the cards turn out ok before running commercials for them and going for mass printing.

[Dusk]

Manipulation and exploitation seem a bit extreme here. They announced when the next drop would be. They hinted it would be Theros themed if you clicked the twitch link prior to the reveal stream. And there is nothing forcing a consumer to buy it without gathering information first. Images were of the products were emerging shortly after the sales window opened, giving people plenty of time to look. The drops are available for more than one day, giving people time to make a decision. Given this, I would say that these are less of an impulse buy than the others as they were each only available for one day. Just my two cents.

[DirkGently]

What point? That he is complaining just for the sake of complaining rather than coming with valid criticisms? As I mentioned earlier, not every product made by WotC (and their parent company Hasbro) is for every consumer. This product is clearly not meant for him, and as such he is complaining about it not being for him and accusing WotC for being an evil company, when they are anything but that. I then pointed out some actually evil companies for comparison which he completely glossed over and doubled down on his complaining about the Secret Lairs. He has not made a valid point yet, and I doubt he will.

And I reiterate: Not every product is for every player. I have skipped many products over the years because they simply are not for me, nor do I have any interest in them. But complaining just for the sake of complaining doesn't solve anything.

People have already been very clear that this is about distribution, NOT the product itself. Personally this isn't something I'm interested in, but I can still see the manipulative distribution as scummy. If I actually wanted it I'd probably be a lot angrier.

Making these a one-day window is clearly a tactic to give whales FOMO and pressure them into buying. Video games are doing the same thing. Certain people are susceptible to this kind of pressure. Some have loads of money to blow and will be fine. Some don't and might not.

I worry that it's only a matter of time before we see functionally unique cards in these things. People weren't buying enough booster boxes? BAM, functionally unique bab promos. People weren't interested in brawl? BAM, functionally unique cards in brawl precons. People aren't buying theme boosters? BAM, functionally unique cards in theme boosters. Products can't be "not for you" because that doesn't make wotc $$$.

Wotc isn't BP levels of evil but they've definitely taken some sips from whatever Koolaid the modern AAA gaming industry has been drinking.

[WizardMN]

Making these a one-day window is clearly a tactic to give whales FOMO and pressure them into buying.

I get the points you are trying to make though I don't really agree with them. The only one I wanted to call out was this one though. These aren't a 1 day window. People have 3 days (I suppose it is really 2 and a half days) to make their purchases. There is an argument that a 3 day window isn't a lot better but it does give people the opportunity to think about what they want to do rather than forcing a completely impulse decision.

[Sojourner Dusk]

I worry that it's only a matter of time before we see functionally unique cards in these things. People weren't buying enough booster boxes? BAM, functionally unique bab promos. People weren't interested in brawl? BAM, functionally unique cards in brawl precons. People aren't buying theme boosters? BAM, functionally unique cards in theme boosters. Products can't be "not for you" because that doesn't make wotc $$$.

Wotc isn't BP levels of evil but they've definitely taken some sips from whatever Koolaid the modern AAA gaming industry has been drinking.

I don't think we should be dragging BP into this conversation That's a different type of ethical malfeasance. A more apt comparison would be to BioWare's decline after being subsumed by EA.

I don't think this is entirely WotC's call with the recent nonstop product parade. Remember that Hasbro has been touting the stacks of cash that Magic and D&D are bringing in to keep the company out of the red from their other declining lines. As far as upcoming cash grabs, wait for Arena to announce that Pioneer and/or Modern Master sets will be available soon.

As far as "functionally unique" cards go, Eldraine's Brawl decks have already entered that territory. Korvold costs a Mythic Rare Wildcard on Arena or $9 in paper, because it isn't available in "traditional" boosters. I expect we'll see more of this to come, along with monthly Secret Lairs.

[CommanderMaster999]

Yup, those are bad. Not even that great of art. Love how you don't even get to see the cards until you wait in the que, then you have only 10 minutes to order. :laughing:

Incorrect

You got till the 16th for all of them

[Jace]

I don't like the constellation art but in the event I decide I want these in the future it's best to just get them now and save myself a future hassle. I'm happy they chose these gods but I agree the marble treatment is far superior

I got them anyway though just to have. I'll play with the originals always

Always happy and excited for Theros cards though

[The N82O Molecule]

so. . .do I buy this? cause I really want to. will it take away from other cards? yes. but in two years when something happens in my life and I have to pawn these cards to eat. . .will I get more than I paid?

my wallet is telling me no, but my body, my body is telling me yes

[pokken]

So obviously this is just the previous one, but I opened ~$150 in planewalkers from my previous secret lair bundle (jace + teferi + ashiok + all the other jank). I'm pretty inclined on that basis and it's why I picked it up; that and so I have a purphoros

I feel like these are priced such that you almost can't lose your shirt on them. Likelihood is the worst you could do is lose 20-30 bucks.

[CommanderMaster999]

so. . .do I buy this? cause I really want to. will it take away from other cards? yes. but in two years when something happens in my life and I have to pawn these cards to eat. . .will I get more than I paid?

my wallet is telling me no, but my body, my body is telling me yes

Well to point out stain glass walkers are in them and those are close to 3 figures in value

The only way that part to go horribly wrong is if they go outside secret lair with those

[DirkGently]

I don't think we should be dragging BP into this conversation That's a different type of ethical malfeasance. A more apt comparison would be to BioWare's decline after being subsumed by EA.

I don't think this is entirely WotC's call with the recent nonstop product parade. Remember that Hasbro has been touting the stacks of cash that Magic and D&D are bringing in to keep the company out of the red from their other declining lines. As far as upcoming cash grabs, wait for Arena to announce that Pioneer and/or Modern Master sets will be available soon.

As far as "functionally unique" cards go, Eldraine's Brawl decks have already entered that territory. Korvold costs a Mythic Rare Wildcard on Arena or $9 in paper, because it isn't available in "traditional" boosters. I expect we'll see more of this to come, along with monthly Secret Lairs.

I mean, it's hard to know what's going on behind the scenes. I can't claim I've done a lot of investigation or anything about whether to blame hasbro or wotc for the relentless release schedule.

Idk that releasing modern masters would be a "cash grab" for arena. Releasing existing sets in normal boosters seems fine to me. But then I'm always just gonna keep doing what I always do in arena: play infinite draft and occasionally standard if I get low on gems. WotC can release all the sets they want on arena, so far as I'm concerned. If they release them as wildcard only, then that's a bit annoying...but since it doesn't effect draft or standard I guess I don't really care.

I think the bottom line is that, since arena isn't really how I like to play magic anyway (plus it doesn't support commander and likely never will in the same capacity as paper), I don't really care how money grubby they get with it, except so far as it worries me about the sustainability of their business model.

As far as functionally unique cards...I don't think it takes a genius to see who they're targeting with them. Every BaB promo, brawl exclusive, game night exclusive, and theme pack exclusive all look to be targeting commander exclusively. Obviously there's been some friendly fire with nexus and korvold, but I think it's pretty obvious that commander is where they're trying to extract money. As a commander player, that affects me the most. Hence, it annoys the hell out of me, and given the drastic increase in these functionally unique cards, I'm tending to see more of them lurking around every dark corner at this point.

Right now, my concern lies in basically two places:

1) annoyance that, as someone who already spends a lot of money drafting, there are lots of cards that I want to add to my commander collection that are difficult to acquire via trading, come with a ton of extra crap I have zero interest in and at a large markup when purchased directly, and which are annoying and expensive to acquire as singles here in NZ.

2) concern that wotc is basically pulling out every stop in an effort to make as much money as possible without regard for customer fatigue or sustainability. I'm no expert in capitalism, but it sure seems like there's going to be a point where wotc is tapped out, and they either start to decline, or even stay stagnant in their revenue, and then they're going to pull out some really desperate moves to get their earnings back up, and then they're going to get shut down. That's my fear. Endless growth can't continue forever. If they're pulling out all these obnoxious gimmicks now, I wonder how much further they have to grow, and what will happen when they can't.

C'mon, Bernie, socialize MtG! Healthcare I can take or leave, but life ain't worth living without Magic!

[pokken]

What I don't get when people complain about the release schedule is that WOTC is printing 76 sets a year and the prices are still astronomical on singles.

MTG player philosophy

1. Complain about prices
2. Complain about too many sets reprinting cards to bring down prices
3. Profit??

Half the sets this year are loaded for bear with reprints (commander, mystery booster) that people are clamoring for.

[RxPhantom]

Half the sets this year are loaded for bear with reprints (commander, mystery booster) that people are clamoring for.

Are they, though? These products should be a reprint bonanza, but Commander decks from the last few years have been lacking in that department. I think it's too soon to tell with Mystery Boosters. The set is enormous, so while there are some chase rares, there's still the normal amount of chaff. Print run on that still seems uncertain too.

EDIT: Commander Legends should be the source of sorely needed reprints. If things like Oracle of Mul Daya aren't printed there, then what the hell are they even doing?

[DirkGently]

What I don't get when people complain about the release schedule is that WOTC is printing 76 sets a year and the prices are still astronomical on singles.

MTG player philosophy

1. Complain about prices
2. Complain about too many sets reprinting cards to bring down prices
3. Profit??

Half the sets this year are loaded for bear with reprints (commander, mystery booster) that people are clamoring for.

I realize my perspective is an unusual one, but I don't give the slightest crap about reprints. I already have all the cards from older sets that I want. WotC releasing reprint sets slightly annoys me because it drags down prices of cards I already overpaid for, but mostly I just ignore it since the cards I paid a ton of money for are mostly on the reserved list. The annoyance factor is purely from functionally unique new cards and isn't mitigated by reprints one iota.

Like I said, though, I know this is an unusual perspective.

[pokken]

Half the sets this year are loaded for bear with reprints (commander, mystery booster) that people are clamoring for.

Are they, though? These products should be a reprint bonanza, but Commander decks from the last few years have been lacking in that department. I think it's too soon to tell with Mystery Boosters. The set is enormous, so while there are some chase rares, there's still the normal amount of chaff. Print run on that still seems uncertain too.

EDIT: Commander Legends should be the source of sorely needed reprints. If things like Oracle of Mul Daya aren't printed there, then what the hell are they even doing?

Mystery is the same shot at a mana crypt as a masters set for half the price, so there's that.

Also there's a green FTV-ish spellbook thing that might have some of that stuff in it. And a set of 2 commander decks that are supposed to be almost entirely reprints, and 5 new commander decks besides.

[Vessiliana]

So where can I buy a Heliod?

[Atraxian]

On the secondary market when they start popping up

[ConstantMists]

My full set arrived today. They look great. As with past sets they did include the stained glass walkers. I've heard people saying they have been told they won't get theirs until April. I would guess complete sets were shipped first.

I got another Nicky B. Wizards must love me, I got one of him in my first order in December as well.

[CalebLost]

My full set arrived today. They look great. As with past sets they did include the stained glass walkers. I've heard people saying they have been told they won't get theirs until April. I would guess complete sets were shipped first.

I got another Nicky B. Wizards must love me, I got one of him in my first order in December as well.

I bought the complete bundle (two of them) and the confirmation mail says March/April as shipping time. Probably because they had a pre-printed stock for the first buyers to send right away, while the other had to wait for the next printing wave.

Talking about PW, could you tell which one you got and in which box they where, there is a theory that each box contains a pw that shares one color with the mono-color god of that box

[ConstantMists]

My full set arrived today. They look great. As with past sets they did include the stained glass walkers. I've heard people saying they have been told they won't get theirs until April. I would guess complete sets were shipped first.

I got another Nicky B. Wizards must love me, I got one of him in my first order in December as well.

I bought the complete bundle (two of them) and the confirmation mail says March/April as shipping time. Probably because they had a pre-printed stock for the first buyers to send right away, while the other had to wait for the next printing wave.

Talking about PW, could you tell which one you got and in which box they where, there is a theory that each box contains a pw that shares one color with the mono-color god of that box

I received an Ajani, the Greathearted with volume 5, Samut, Tyrant Smasher with volume 4, Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted with volume 3, Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God with volume 3 and finally Dovin, Hand of Control with volume 1.

While 1 set won't confirm that theory, it does align with the walkers I received and the boxes they came in.