[MCD] Trash or Treasure: New Card Testing and Results

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Post by Mookie 1 year ago

With the release of MH3, I'm starting this thread as a counterpart to the Unreleased and New Card discussion. That thread tends to focus on spoilers and speculation, but I want some cold, hard DATA! ...or, failing that, some entertaining anecdotes (which are pretty much the same thing).

What cards have people played with? Which new things have lived up to the hype and is worth picking up? What have people lost to and should be kill-on-sight? What cards have underperformed? Were there any hidden gems that slipped through the decks during spoiler season? How have all-MDFC manabases felt - is it now possible to go down to 20 actual lands?

Not specific to MH3 (or whatever is the most recent set) - feel free to share anecdotes for anything recent. The intent of this thread is to inform other peoples' decisions regarding cards that they may not have had the chance to play with yet or otherwise see in action.

To start the ball rolling...
  • From MH3, Psychic Frog has impressed me (well, in Cube at least - I haven't put it in a deck yet). Cheap, evasive, fills the graveyard, generates card advantage - it fills a bunch of roles. It may be a bit less impressive in EDH than Cube, but I think it will usually be a two mana unblockable Ophidian, which seems nice for a variety of decks. I believe Oakhame Adversary sees some play in cEDH circles, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Psychic Frog in a similar role.
  • From OTJ, Cactus Preserve has looked good so far. I'm playing it in Tasigur as a 3 mana 6/6, which is enough to ward off most attacks. I had one opponent walk straight into it, which made for a pretty entertaining mental image - I don't think they attacked me again for the rest of the game.
  • Freestrider Lookout has felt nuts so far in Samut. I have a ton of random targeted effects, so it's not hard for it to ramp 2+ lands out per turn cycle.
  • Hollow Marauder has had mixed results so far. I haven't considered Syphon Mind to be a playable card for a while, so I may have been suckered in by its potential upside of being a cheaper version with a 4/2 body. I still want to test it a bit more though. Maybe I just need more self-mill to discount it?
  • From MKM, Case of the Locked Hothouse has felt okay so far, but I'd like additional feedback on it from others that have run it. I threw it in most of my green decks, but it hasn't done much yet - just an extra land drop or two. I feel like by the time it's online and actually generating card advantage, the game is usually already close to a conclusion. Hmmm...
  • Aftermath Analyst, on the other hand, has felt pretty good in Tasigur. It has felt like a nice upgrade over World Shaper and Splendid Reclamation - it doesn't need a sac outlet (unlike the former) and it's easy to recur / reanimate (unlike the latter). I got to pop it at the end of my opponent's turn with Tatyova, Benthic Druid out and seven cards in the graveyard, which felt great.
  • Not quite as new, but I finally got to pop off with Song of Creation in Animar (after somehow having it in the deck for almost two years without casting it) with the help of Gwenna, Eyes of Gaea (who isn't that new either, but is new to my deck). I was concerned about having enough big creatures for the latter... but it turns out Gwenna can tap to cast every 5+ power creature in my deck after the Animar discount, and I have enough free / cheap smaller creatures to chain the big ones into one another... which meant they were able to go nondeterministically infinite. Good stuff.

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Post by pokken 1 year ago

Hothouse is a card for an 8-10 turn game I think. Real good if it goes that long but might as well be Explore if not.

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Post by materpillar 1 year ago

Gishath, Sun's Avatar - I got to one shot someone with True Conviction and Legion Leadership // Legion Stronghold. Which is to say this Legion Leadership is exactly as powerful as I expected it to be in that deck. The following turn my entire board got goaded but I still managed to kill both remaining players with my pile of goaded dinosaurs plus Arena of Glory hasting both Sawhorn Nemesis and Ravenous Tyrannosaurus. Which is to say that new land and dinosaur are also as degenerate as I expected them to be in that deck.

Conspiracy Unraveler - is actually just Omniscience in my high cmc tribal deck. I expected it to be good but it has been utterly insane for me.

Witch Enchanter // Witch-Blessed Meadow has slightly underperformed for me. I was expecting it to be absolutely outstanding but being 1 mana more than Loran of the Third Path is extremely noticeable. I'm definitely not cutting it, but I mentally expected it to be a creature primarily and a land if I really need it. After a few games, my analysis has changed to be that I expect I'll play it as a land more than I play it as a creature.

Played several games against Kudo, King Among Bears. That card does a very good job keeping degenerate creature boards down. A very solid battlecruiser general.

Brenard, Ginger Sculptor looks like a cute food/golem tribal thing. In reality he's an extremely obnoxious value engine that I would highly recommend murdering pretty close to on sight.

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Post by Serenade 1 year ago

Assassin's Trophy - Good removal that I am glad they reprinted

Worldsoul's Rage - Just a nice, simple, not-pushed RG spell. We all nod when someone plays it. Never rubs anyone the wrong way.

Vault 21: House Gambit - I like Demand Answers and Highway Robbery as well, but this one can play with discard, counters, treasures, enchantments, sagas, lots of things.

Vault 12: The Necropolis - Has become my pet card in Xavier Sal, Infested Captain. Rad counter mill/life loss seems to irk no one. If you proliferate right after dropping, you get 16 untapped 2/2 zombies for six mana. Maybe you do not play it outside of proliferate/zombies, but it dumps a lot on the board quickly.

Cactus Preserve - Agree with Mookie on this card and have had similar experience running it in Eris, Roar of the Storm.
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Post by pokken 1 year ago

Amongst new to me cards I've played recently:

Blossoming Tortoise has been a slam dunk every time I have played it in Thrasios; it's just the right power level to get ignored and the perfect 2-4 play (2 drop ramp, 4 cmc card on turn 3) to push you into the mid game.

Cavern-Hoard Dragon has been hit or miss in Xenagos. Any time someone shows up with a clue/artifact/treasure theme they get obliterated though, and that's enough for me.

Anzrag, the Quake-Mole very consistent in Xenagos. If I get to activate it, I win.

Great Train Heist has been super solid replacement for a generic extra turn effect that has some reach

Open the Way is a little older one but it's been great for me. I like the scaling from 3-5 mana

Call Forth the Tempest has been medium, but is cool.

in Ephara

Windshaper Planetar is consistently dominant. If I have it, I always kill somebody with it. They inevitably try to pressure me and then they kill somebody else on accident. This is a common source of first casualty in Ephara games. :D

Invasion of Segovia // Caetus, Sea Tyrant of Segovia has been cool in the game I drew it. I also have it in Thrasios, Triton Hero lands, and it rates to be very good there too based on thinking about it during gameplay :D

The Watcher in the Water has been a solid consistent card advantage engine. Not great but not bad.

Oketra
Roaming Throne was predictably baller in God-Eternal Oketra the two times I saw it, once making double tokens and once making 6 with Ojer Taq, Deepest Foundation // Temple of Civilization :D

Ojer Taq, Deepest Foundation // Temple of Civilization has been hit or miss. It did win one game with its ability to flip back, which was very nice. But mostly its sequencing problems as a 6 drop (where it taps you out before you can get advantage) make it somewhat dependent on treating it like a 7-8 drop or having an Ornithopter. Still, it has been good enough I am keeping it for now. Being able to put near-lethal combat damage down with 2-3 dudes after it makes it nice, and Crashing Drawbridge has made it go faster than people think.

Nesting Dovehawk is a slightly older one that has been dominant in Oketra. It's cheap and it solves a small problem of the deck struggling block fliers incidentally which is nice.


All around

Sword of Forge and Frontier continues to impress everywhere I play it; draw 2 and explore is a super sweet spot where no one can afford to remove it but it does good work. Red and Green covers a surprising amount of the creatures that can block ~4 power safely, and I can slap it on a flier often as well.

Clever Concealment has been a great card. It's frustrating that it leaves you shields down with blockers a lot of times, but man being able to phase your stuff for free is very good. I've had it win multiple games people didn't think I had any outs to.

Case of the Locked Hothouse has been very good but not great in my two decks that play it; if I can push the game length long, it's worth the squeeze.

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Post by Mookie 1 year ago

On the theme of cards that are slightly older but are still relatively new to my decks...
  • Faerie Artisans and Aboleth Spawn are both big question marks to me. I've played them a few times in Animar, but they haven't generated much value. I can't tell if it's a meta issue and my specific opponents aren't playing enough random ETB value creatures... or if the format as a whole has moved away from them. I suppose my meta is weirdly light on board wipes, so people may be playing creatures as longer-term investments instead of needing immediate value.
  • Carmen Cruel Skymarcher has felt good in Teysa. I'm going to put the rationale for that in the same bucket as above - creatures tend to live a long time in my meta, so Carmen usually gets to attack at least once, if not multiple times. I recently stole her from an opponent while playing my Thada deck and got to recur a 7-drop the following turn, which was pretty silly. Often a kill-on-sight card, IMO.
  • Spelunking has really impressed me every time I've played it in Tasigur. I recently played it against a player with a Kismet, which was an amusing interaction. I suppose it's somewhat dependent on how many tapped lands you have, but the baseline of a three mana Explore is a high floor, and it's not hard for it to generate an extra mana or two every time you cast a ramp spell that fetches tapped lands.
  • Up the Beanstalk is also excellent, as I'm sure people have already inferred from its play in other formats. I threw it in Tasigur and it has performed quite well so far (although it does die occasionally to my own board wipes). It's good if you can draw a single extra card off it (making it a two mana draw-2), and fantastic if you draw multiple. I'll recommend it for any green deck with a 5+ cost commander.

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Post by pokken 1 year ago

Yeah I went absolutely off the first time I played Spelunking im thrasios. Card is real good

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Post by Dunadain 1 year ago

Old news at this point, but it sounds like some people still haven't been fully converted: surveil lands are the real deal, often better than even triomes.

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Post by pokken 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
Old news at this point, but it sounds like some people still haven't been fully converted: surveil lands are the real deal, often better than even triomes.
Yeah I did the right thing and just ordered a full playset at the trough and feel pretty good bout that :D they have been exceptional.

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Post by darrenhabib 1 year ago

Sets come and go so quickly that its hard to know what is deemed "new". But I'll start from Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty, which is over 2 years ago now, but only seems like a minute.

Shigeki, Jukai Visionary - I can't get away from this card. It just has a self contained game plan on its own. Land ramp, setting up the graveyard and graveyard retrieval I find most decks are looking to do this in some capacity.

March of Swirling Mist and March of Otherworldly Light - Both these cards took me a while to start playing, but they are staples imo. The more competitive your play group the better these cards are. Anytime you can spend one mana on removal it saves or wins games. I've found March of Otherworldly Light doing the lords work against The One Ring in recent times. If these cards have not been on your radar as staples, give them a go.

Loran of the Third Path makes it into a lot of my decks. I find the "target opponent draw card" rather than a downside, is actually an upside most of the time as you are looking for balance and help in games to stop a player and obviously politics plays a part. And it is optional in games where things are closer. Of course there are a lot of exile return to battlefield strategies which makes her more powerful.
Another obvious one from The Brothers' War, Haywire Mite makes it into most of my decks.

I've been enjoying the Battles from March of the Machines. In multiplayer they are easier to transform because you can select the weakest opponent to defend them and I've really enjoyed the little subgame of you have something to aim for when otherwise you might be unsure of "who to attack?".
The power levels are pretty decent on a lot of them. Initially the front sides might seem a little overcosted, but then getting all the text of the transform is satisfying and worth it. Of course needs to be in decks that can attack or direct damage, but if you've been on-the-fence about Magics "new" card type, give them a try.

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Post by aliciaofthevast 1 year ago

Ohhhh, cactus preserve. It's like reflecting pool but can also beat face or steal the monarch too. EBT is a bummer but I think it's enough potential upside!

@3drinks you still love that Japanese reflecting pool yeah? Maybe consider this one. I think you'd enjoy that 🙃
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Post by Ruiner 1 year ago

I've been messing with a Narset, Enlightened Exile deck recently and finally had a game where I got Crackling Spellslinger in hand with the appropriate set up to take advantage of it. Getting a Storm Count 10 Fiery Confluence to do 60 to everyone was pretty satisfying.

There are a few other cards I'm looking forward to comboing it with like Call the Coppercoats and Prisoner's Dilemma. Even a few extra copies of something like Generous Gift could be pretty devastating.

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Post by pokken 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
I've been enjoying the Battles from March of the Machines. In multiplayer they are easier to transform because you can select the weakest opponent to defend them and I've really enjoyed the little subgame of you have something to aim for when otherwise you might be unsure of "who to attack?".
The thing I have loved the most about Battles is it gives me a way to not attack anybody when I'm not ready while still accruing value. The value of Invasion of Zendikar // Awakened Skyclave is it signals that I'll probably not murder anyone immediately with Xenagos, God of Revels so the game feels more relaxed. And in Ephara, God of the Polis and Thrasios, Triton Hero I never want to attack early so being abe to turn a couple zombie tokens into a flipped Invasion of Segovia // Caetus, Sea Tyrant of Segovia is lit.

Invasion of Arcavios // Invocation of the Founders is one I really need to find a deck for. The flipside of it is super powerful and the front side is not that horrible a rate.

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Post by darrenhabib 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
Invasion of Arcavios // Invocation of the Founders is one I really need to find a deck for. The flipside of it is super powerful and the front side is not that horrible a rate.
A Battles themed deck with Invasion of Arcavios // Invocation of the Founders getting Aether Snap you say? lol

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Post by Mookie 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
The thing I have loved the most about Battles is it gives me a way to not attack anybody when I'm not ready while still accruing value.
> attack an opponent for 2 damage: opponent declares war
> attack a battle for 200 damage: 'eh, fine, you can have your Serra Angel'.

It's pretty rare for me to want to flip a battle but not be able to do so - opponents usually aren't willing to fight to defend one. You do need some amount of board presence to attack, but it's usually not that difficult. There are also plenty of random synergies - they live through Pernicious Deed, they're an extra card type for Tarmogoyf and friends, they're a permanent to flicker / recur with Invasion of Shandalar // Leyline Surge... most of them are a little overcosted on the front side, but trading in a bit of damage for extra value from the back side is pretty nice.

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Post by thatbrawlguy 1 year ago

Pinnacle Monk // Mystic Peak

In Ghired this thing is a HOUSE! Making copies of it is pure gas and if you have haste you can build a board of fairly sized beaters to end games. It also has some infinite, albeit convoluted, lines. Who knew an Anarchist that's also a land if you need it AND has prowess would actually be good? I expect I'll be seeing it show up in a lot of decks.

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Post by Dunadain 1 year ago

I have Coram, the Undertaker at the head of my dragon re-animator deck and he continues to impress me every time I cast him. He consistently gives you at least a card each turn, and he's got a giant booty if you need a blocker.

Not busted or anything, but plays much nicer than it reads.

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Post by TheGildedGoose 1 year ago

Anyone have any experience with Nadu, Winged Wisdom yet? Haven't seen a lot of discussion online and was hoping someone could offer some insight.

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Post by pokken 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
Anyone have any experience with Nadu, Winged Wisdom yet? Haven't seen a lot of discussion online and was hoping someone could offer some insight.
Nobody at my shop had it built last week but I'm not surprised

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Post by Sinis 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
Anyone have any experience with Nadu, Winged Wisdom yet? Haven't seen a lot of discussion online and was hoping someone could offer some insight.
I haven't seen it built, but... it was quietly soft/house banned in all my groups. Nobody wants to play against someone with Nadu and Greaves/Shuko/Umbral Mantle or whatever trivial/low-cost activated ability they have.

It's just too silly. I hear cEDH players discussing banning it (unclear if they mean a separate cEDH banlist, or if they'll endlessly petition/harass the RC like they did with Flash).

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Post by Mookie 1 year ago

I have not yet played against Nadu myself. From what I have seen of the card in other formats and from other players, it seems very powerful and hard to disrupt... but the non-deterministic and length combo turns make it look like a deck that wouldn't be particularly fun or interesting to pilot. As a result, I would be rather surprised if someone were to build it in my (very casual) meta. It might show up in the 99 at some point, but its restriction to UG decks limits its availability (Notion Thief has never been a problem for similar reasons).

On a completely different note, I recently added Prototype Portal to my Sharuum deck. The first game I played with it, I imprinted a Machine God's Effigy and used it to copy my Urza, Powerstone Prodigy that had previously been hit by an Arrest, then used it to generate powerstones. I'm not quite sure what the flavor implications of that are, but I certainly made a very large number of game objects. I think I need to get actual powerstone and copy tokens for my token box now. >_>

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Post by darrenhabib 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
Anyone have any experience with Nadu, Winged Wisdom yet? Haven't seen a lot of discussion online and was hoping someone could offer some insight.
I have a 28/37 record with it in cEDH games. I guess you could say its pretty pretty good.

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Post by pokken 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
Anyone have any experience with Nadu, Winged Wisdom yet? Haven't seen a lot of discussion online and was hoping someone could offer some insight.
I have a 28/37 record with it in cEDH games. I guess you could say its pretty pretty good.
If you play 37 games with say, najeela tempo, what you think your win rate would be?

I'm guessing not too far off :D

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Post by darrenhabib 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
Anyone have any experience with Nadu, Winged Wisdom yet? Haven't seen a lot of discussion online and was hoping someone could offer some insight.
I have a 28/37 record with it in cEDH games. I guess you could say its pretty pretty good.
If you play 37 games with say, najeela tempo, what you think your win rate would be?

I'm guessing not too far off :D
I just looked up the https://www.cedh-analytics.com/metagame website and here are some stats we've got already.
Nadu has already become the win % leader among the tried and true decks.

Kraum, Ludevic's Opus / Tymna the Weaver 22.2%
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy 18.2%
Sisay, Weatherlight Captain 23%
Tivit, Seller of Secrets 19.1%
Najeela, the Blade-Blossom 20.6%
Nadu, Winged Wisdom 28.6%

That win % might not look like much more, but if you look at the range difference between the other decks 18.2-23 (4.8%), Nadu has more win % over the next highest with 5.6%. That is a staggering amount.

When I play 4 payer cEDH with my other decks, I always feel like I have around 20-35% chance of winning, no matter the deck. If I go 1st maybe 35%, 2nd 30%, 3rd 25% and last 20%.
I give myself quite good odds because I know my decks are well tuned and understood and I have a lot of experience and the other deck and players can be variable to top level play.
If I had a super tuned Najeela, the Blade-Blossom I would put my odds at the 20-35% still. That's still super high.
But with Nadu my chances are around 75%.

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Post by Sinis 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
But with Nadu my chances are around 75%.
Pro Tour MH3 just ended with four Nadu decks losing in the top 8. The fifth Nadu deck won the event, though.

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