The One Ring

[ISBPathfinder]

I still have it in essentially every deck and expect to see it in essentially every deck as far as opponents can afford to.

Seems like the wrong attitude in my opinion, I feel like you'll see what you play, same as if you played Mana Crypt in every day, that is the level of cards I'd then expect to face too. I am glad that the few LGS I go to have different approach and I see the One Ring rarely

For the record, I owned 3-4 Mana Crypts and even with that I generally played it in like.... a third of decks maybe. In the past when I had a slower meta I played it less but my current meta runs faster and its very often that games end turns 5-8 these days and the rate I played it did go up due to that. I do play One Ring in almost every deck though and I own 6 copies of it. I sometimes have more than six decks together at once but don't generally bring more than 4 with me so it wasn't too much of a problem it just required me to move them about a bit.

I was for mana crypts ban but I do think that banning it while making an exemption for Sol Ring is silly.

[Moxnix]

I still have it in essentially every deck and expect to see it in essentially every deck as far as opponents can afford to.

Seems like the wrong attitude in my opinion, I feel like you'll see what you play, same as if you played Mana Crypt in every day, that is the level of cards I'd then expect to face too. I am glad that the few LGS I go to have different approach and I see the One Ring rarely

This is exactly what I would like to see XD I want everyone on good staples and fast decks with about a turn 6 pace. MTGO meta was always this way as mana crypt was 5 tics and one purchase and you could auto load to any deck. Its interesting to note when its not expensive the meta at least on mtgo was everyone got one then. One ring is 40$ if it became 5$ everyone would use it. Which makes me think lots of people would like to play high power with me they just don't want buy the cards which I don't care if they proxy.

[onering]

Mox, most people don't want to run super high power, they just get tired of getting wrecked because other people are doing it. You eventually have to either specify certain criteria for your game, or expect to run into people running your preferred play style and adapt even if you don't want to do that yourself.

I honestly don't know if you legitimately just don't understand that, or if you just choose to ignore it because you personally benefit from it. There are people who have said, on this forum, that they heavily run The One Ring but think it's bad for the format and want it banned. That should be enough for you to realize that you cannot just assume that people running the card doesn't automatically mean it's the experience they want. Many people are running it because they feel like they are just kneecapping themselves by not running it and would much prefer if the damn thing had never been printed.

The One Ring is so dominating that it's the sort of card that makes you feel dumb for not running it every time you see it. It's only satisfying to play, however, if your meta is all super high power or your a griefer. Unfortunately, it has not been limited to super high power play, and it's been around long enough that we know it won't be. Rather than people adjusting to it by choosing not to run it, it's become more and more widely played even as people complain about it. It's a clear design mistake that should have eaten a ban already. It should be the first thing on Wizards chopping block. That they banned it in modern is good news that makes it more likely it will actually get banned in commander, as it proves that it's no longer being protected.

[Avacyn Believer]

Mox, most people don't want to run super high power, they just get tired of getting wrecked because other people are doing it.

Your post sums it up well. I can easily afford the One Ring, and I have nothing against proxies (I use them, never forget official $1,000 booster packs of proxies), but it is just a silly card that doesn't feel like the right fit in my decks outside of being broken and providing a lot of value, and to play it in every deck to me is incredibly boring so I run it in select few decks that are meant to be pushed.

[ISBPathfinder]

Mox, most people don't want to run super high power, they just get tired of getting wrecked because other people are doing it. You eventually have to either specify certain criteria for your game, or expect to run into people running your preferred play style and adapt even if you don't want to do that yourself.

I honestly don't know if you legitimately just don't understand that, or if you just choose to ignore it because you personally benefit from it. There are people who have said, on this forum, that they heavily run The One Ring but think it's bad for the format and want it banned. That should be enough for you to realize that you cannot just assume that people running the card doesn't automatically mean it's the experience they want. Many people are running it because they feel like they are just kneecapping themselves by not running it and would much prefer if the damn thing had never been printed.

The One Ring is so dominating that it's the sort of card that makes you feel dumb for not running it every time you see it. It's only satisfying to play, however, if your meta is all super high power or your a griefer. Unfortunately, it has not been limited to super high power play, and it's been around long enough that we know it won't be. Rather than people adjusting to it by choosing not to run it, it's become more and more widely played even as people complain about it. It's a clear design mistake that should have eaten a ban already. It should be the first thing on Wizards chopping block. That they banned it in modern is good news that makes it more likely it will actually get banned in commander, as it proves that it's no longer being protected.

I run it in every deck because the meta I am in I have to assume everyone is running it against me. The truth, its probably in 50ish% of decks in my LGS but the problem is that the good players have copies in every deck. My meta proxies so many own like one copy and proxy it to every deck. There is one guy in my meta that all he plays is UW tempo. I am not kidding you when I say he has like 5+ decks that are all some variation of UW tempo and its all he plays. Every deck is chalked full of mana rocks, draw, and tempo disruption. I can play against him but I have to bring out my better decks every time I play against him because everything he has is some variation of cancer.

So the hard part is that the players that aren't running it in every deck already don't stand a huge chance of winning games for me so I play it in almost every deck because I need to. Oddly enough I am not playing it or sol ring in one of my stronger decks right now but its more of a wierd case of deck design than me being kind in removing them.

[Dunadain]

I run it in every deck because the meta I am in I have to assume everyone is running it against me.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

[ISBPathfinder]

I think I just played like 9 games of magic today and every single game had 4x copies of this being run by the table. I am so freaking tired of this card. I saw this card in at least half of my games and most of the games ended by turn 6 or 7. I think the biggest One Ring managed to get to like 4 counters on it before it was so overwhelmingly game ending that it won games for its owner. In almost every case whoever got this card just immediately proceeded to win the game.

The only games made better by this card existing are Lord of the Rings theme decks. It needs to be banned its sooooooo freaking outrageous. This 4 mana card is accomplishing what I would expect from a 7+ cmc spell generally speaking. Its tooo freaking much and I am soooo tired of beating this drum.

I am so tired of this card existing. I would take it out of my own decks but the problem is I see it literally everywhere else. I played at least 9 games today and won like.... 2 of them. This card is a huge problem and it needs to be killed off.

[PrimevalCommander]

I played at least 9 games today and won like.... 2 of them

I would hit the ban button on The One Ring in a second... however this is about what you should expect to win over 9 games in a 4-player pod. Your statistical win percentage is 25%, and you made 22%, so not that far off. I have to remind myself this regularly when I look back and say "I only won 1 of 5 games tonight", but that's 20%, which is just below average I should expect to win.

Buddy of mine regularly recounts his games at the LGS winning 4/5, or 4/4 games or similar high win rate, and while I don't disbelieve it, it is a bit baffling that the players don't wise up to this and put a little more pressure on him.

I go into a game session wanting to win about 1/2 my games, and when that doesn't happen I get a little salty. But reminding myself that there are 3 other players who also want to win, and that my "share" of the games is only 1/4 helps reset my expectations.

To reiterate: Ban The One Ring.

[ISBPathfinder]

I played at least 9 games today and won like.... 2 of them

I would hit the ban button on The One Ring in a second... however this is about what you should expect to win over 9 games in a 4-player pod. Your statistical win percentage is 25%, and you made 22%, so not that far off. I have to remind myself this regularly when I look back and say "I only won 1 of 5 games tonight", but that's 20%, which is just below average I should expect to win.

Buddy of mine regularly recounts his games at the LGS winning 4/5, or 4/4 games or similar high win rate, and while I don't disbelieve it, it is a bit baffling that the players don't wise up to this and put a little more pressure on him.

I go into a game session wanting to win about 1/2 my games, and when that doesn't happen I get a little salty. But reminding myself that there are 3 other players who also want to win, and that my "share" of the games is only 1/4 helps reset my expectations.

To reiterate: Ban The One Ring.

It was less about that I only won 2/9 and more about the fact that I never saw someone resolve The One Ring and then not power farm the game. The only time The One Ring didn't single handedly carry someone was when I tutored for and played the second one of the game and couldn't dig out from behind the fact that someone had several turns of activation before me of his own.

[PrimevalCommander]

I now have a copy of THE ONE RING. I never noticed, but the protection clause being a cast trigger softens my ire for the card quite a bit. I put it in my Iron Man, Titan of Innovation deck and I can't pod into it, or reanimate it, or copy it, and still gain the protection part. It's still a strong colorless draw engine with indestructible, but it's now $100 and the last 2 times I had it in play, no one cared much. And it actually draws much LESS cards than any of my actual strong synergy draw engines like Uthros Research Craft or Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain. Though it is pretty gross as a stand-alone card, most decks with strong synergy can do better from a card draw perspective.

Honestly at $50-$60 it's probably worth it for established players with the budget, but at $100, I don't even like it very much. Probably best in decks with lower amounts of strong draw engines that synergize with the deck. Or in artifact decks, where it is certainly a staple, but not even the scariest thing artifact decks are doing these days.

[ISBPathfinder]

I now have a copy of THE ONE RING. I never noticed, but the protection clause being a cast trigger softens my ire for the card quite a bit. I put it in my Iron Man, Titan of Innovation deck and I can't pod into it, or reanimate it, or copy it, and still gain the protection part. It's still a strong colorless draw engine with indestructible, but it's now $100 and the last 2 times I had it in play, no one cared much. And it actually draws much LESS cards than any of my actual strong synergy draw engines like Uthros Research Craft or Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain. Though it is pretty gross as a stand-alone card, most decks with strong synergy can do better from a card draw perspective.

Honestly at $50-$60 it's probably worth it for established players with the budget, but at $100, I don't even like it very much. Probably best in decks with lower amounts of strong draw engines that synergize with the deck. Or in artifact decks, where it is certainly a staple, but not even the scariest thing artifact decks are doing these days.

I agree if you have a deck with strong engine pieces its generally not going to be stronger........... most of the time..... assuming your engine isn't Seedborn Muse or Unwinding Clock. But its really strong in essentially every deck and it doesn't just draw cards, it also gives incredibly strong personal defense the turn you play it making it strong at most any stage of the game.

If it was just draw, if it was just protection, if it didn't go in literally everything.... I would be less annoyed by it.

I agree that it can be outpaced with some of the stronger engine effects, its just that it belongs everywhere and its never a bad card. The sooner you find the card the more it runs away with games but even when you find it late its still one of the best defensive mechanics you can deploy in a turn and it promises to draw you three cards by the next turn (one this turn and two next) while protecting you until then.

Play it a bit more and see how you feel about T2 / T3 one ring plays. I have almost always lost games where its ramped in early.

[PrimevalCommander]

I'll report back with more experience. With my limited play time, I won't be inclined to turbo-tutor it a bunch, but the last 2 outings with Iron Man I tutored it 1 time around turn 5 because I was behind on cards, and drew it around turn 6-7 the next time but the game only went another couple turns. The protection did help the second time. That is probably one of the more annoying parts of the card, but pretty thematic.

I could probably fix TOR with a very minimal, but impactful change. Have is draw ONLY ONE card on tap, instead of one for each burden counter. Then the pain goes up, but the card output remains constant. At that point it's more Phyrexian Arena with upside, rather than busted draw engine with Time Warp for free. Still abusable with bounce and untaps, but again, only 1 card per tap means any untapping is throttled way back. Alas, that wouldn't create a $100 card to push packs, in a set that definitely didn't need the help.

[ISBPathfinder]

Its not so bad the turn or two after its played but its that strong protection that then starts drawing you half of a new hand per turn or more that is when it gets concerning. I have also had to play against a lot of blue tempo decks that sometimes bounce and replay it. Watching someone bounce and replay it 2-3 turns in a row..... is not fun.

Honestly it needed to cost 2-3 more mana or lose like 1/3 - 1/2 of its power. It might not be an always tutor card but its one of those cards thats often in the best 3-5 cards you could have drawn in your deck kind of a thing.

I am lucky that I bought my six copies at $30 per but also damnit ban this damn thing.

[Moxnix]

Its a strong card but its not that strong I lose often with it out and in any deck i run transmute artifact i pick this over bolas pretty much never since one wins the game for me like 90% of the time on resolution most of the time instantly even with very low or no other resources on the turn. Same deal with necro I dont lose games i resolve necro very often almost never a resolved ad naus is similar but not exactly the same but all of those cards has a much higher win rate for me than ring and beat me when resolved much more than ring. I'm fairly certain even mystic remora or rhystic study have higher win rates in my games than the one ring. You think a turn 2-3 ring is bad beat with with a t2 necro ill draw what ring would draw me all game the second it hits the field without passing priority once ill draw 7-9 cards right now thanks oh one of them was a flash enabler guess its a ad naus now ill draw 25 more thanks. The card is really good no doubt but when i compare it to other really good cards i think meh in high power im trying to cast 3 4 5 cards a turn as early as turn 1 remora and rhystic outpace it early and maybe part of that is me liking storm based strategies but even if you go all in on ring with keys and use your transmute to find it etc the lines are just slower worse versions of the same cedh lines with the stronger cards and pop off a turn or 2 slower in general. I think the only annoying part about the card is indestructible it didnt need that i like its power draw and i like its fog effect its supposed to be the power card of that set but the indestructible on top does seem like some death right shaman or ragavan tier crap like why did it need that i get that it can only die in mount doom so it thematic but that part to me is why its so annoying and powerful in lower brackets you cant simply remove it with non exile removal and while people run tons of creature exile most the commonly played disenchants are not.

[ISBPathfinder]

Bolas's Citadel / Necropotence require you to be in specific colors and BBB to cast is still something you have to take into consideration in 3+ color decks. Bolas's Citadel while good only breaks games in half when you build very specific ways (generally combo / low curve / highly tuned). My weird hot take, the more casual your deck is the less of a problem Bolas's Citadel is.

I am not saying any of those are bad cards or inferior in any way but The One Ring is really good everywhere and takes no build around.

[Moxnix]

I almsot never pay BBB I cast transmute artifact on grim monolith or something much more often than that. I dont think you need to try hard at all you just have tutors and the top good game. I have decks its not in but im serious i win 90% of the games ive ever resolved a bolas one ring is not near that number at all. In cedh its playble but its near the 100th card in the build braynt cut it from rogsi at the same time he cut bolas because if your not on transmute its barley even playble in turbo by contrast necro is maybe the best card in the entire deck and he wouldn't even dream of cutting necrodom which is worse. So yea its better in casual becuase by cedh standards its a slow card. None of these decks would cut necro or study or remora becuase they are all much better in high power than the one ring. Keep in mind the higher you go the less combat damage kills you see blanking the protection often doesnt stop thassa doesnt eve stop my old ass gary ror combo.

I cant imagine many decks both choosing to play bolas citadel and it being fair considering all that's required for it to instant win is top which is playable pretty much anywhere or you know a necro in play XD. Any deck running necro is also on dark ritual culling the weak moxes etc BBB is trivial for them to make. I beat people who play oe ring all day long i dont beat many people who land a necro and it goes both ways. SO yea its good and better the slower the meta obviously but that's also its weakness its slow it doesnt have the speed of a wheel or even a rhystic study at the high end pace of play. So while its good everywhere its not good enough to make the cut in many cedh builds if a black deck in cedh doesnt have necro they did it wrong.

To me necro is not a fair card no matter how i dont build around it i dont lose with it out. Im basing this off guesstimate win rates based on my experince and in real play one ring has a much lower win% than any of the other cards described. Now take that with a pinch fo salt the bracket 2 games on mtgo are still jammed with cedh staples and turn 5 win attempts so doesnt surprise me study still out paces it in real testing. All that being said as far as adding 1 card to a precon or something like that yes this is about as good as you can do in that regard I can agree with that. In that way its not just power level but the kind of deck the mroe streamlined and clean the deck the less you will feel this card unless that streamline is voltaic keys. It does have tons of power on it's own and it is not dependent on others and playable anywhere so yes it at the precon table it absolutly can steal the whole game but again to me if it just didnt say indestructible at those tables the one random disenchant could trade it off. Maybe we should tell wizards loren of the third was not enough power creep for our rec sage and the stapled phyrexian arena effect is nice but not quite good enough it needs to read exile for the one ring XD. High power you dont have to answer one ring generally unless its on turn 1 as you just outpace it anyway. It is in fact a pub stomper in truly low power games.

[ISBPathfinder]

Its interesting how different of an experience we have had with Bolas's. I don't really play with or against that much dedicated combo just decks that are brutal and fast. But my experience has largely been me paying 6 mana for it, maybe or maybe not getting stuffed by a counterspell.... then it maybe gives the value of 1-3 spells the first turn before I brick on lands and pass my turn. In extreme cases its like, cast it and get two lands in a row and do absolutely nothing. I actually haven't largely found the card to be that impressive or concerning in my experience playing the game. I am not saying I have never died to the card or seen someone on a hot streak I just haven't had very good results with it myself. The high initial cost to play it and the large amount of blue tempo.... its just not really that hot in my meta.

[Moxnix]

I mean if it hits any tutor that finds top and the games over if it hits any tutor that find another tutor that finds top the games over If hit any kind of ponder that find any of those i win if it his necro i win becuase it remove the top card of the deck if you have fetch lands to crack or any way of shuffling you can re roll land bricks if i hit a wheel or major hit card likely over storm enabler like minds desire over like thre are litteraly way more ways to win than brick normally when your using the lines it has. Yea the most common way i cast it is tapping grim monlith or mana vault and casting transmute artifact and normally i dont need to play a land drop on turn to take that line letting me cast a land off the top as well and most those decks run around 30 lands. Ive wiffed on it before but i win 9/10 times i resolve it games over. Just means they use it wrong i find many peopel use necro wrong too drawing too much or too little in my mind i i had to pick one best card in the format i think i would pick necro. When one ring came out i did the same kinds of things transmute into it untap it with keys etc and in reality that was ok becuase they are good with vault monolith wtc but in practice the deck was slower than most my cedh decks. In fact the one reason I use ring in some of them is literally so my transmute has a hit card when im not at 6 mana to auto win with bolas and they are builds already wanting to play voltaic key on thier own IE basim its great with seedborn muse in glarb its a good card even high up but it i run necro and bolas in both those decks and in one i win maybe 1/3 of the games off bolas lines.

Also think like this opponent plays a t2 one ring i dont even have to answer it, its not fast enough. If that was a rhystic or remora i cant jam a 6 cast ritual fueled combo turn into that without eating some kind of force of will while i kingmake them ring just sits there doing nothing. So to me the higher you go the less impressive it feels. Lets go down to say turn 6 power i dont know what your b3 games look like but if I'm in green i can outpace it with green draw if I'm in black i can outpace it with black draw and if im in blue i can outpace it as well. I cannot in red or white i dont think i get like some wheels that's it white draw cannot keep up with the one ring which is part of why i like it in boros shell decks. Its biggest issue to me is that in lower power games the fog becomes very powerful the card advantage is no longer too slow as the average game has a few more turns but most important this is the power level players should be able to remove it before it gets there but while swords to plowshares is common for creatures there is a lot less staple quality return to dust type cards and blues universal bounce just changes the issue as it fogs again. I really think sans the word indestructible this would not be an issue almsot anywhere. As it stands it does run over low power tables but if your in low power and your assessment is this single card ruins the game its on you to remove it its a gc for a reason it doesnt belong in casual bracket 2 precon tier games becuase it stomps them but once your in bracket 4/5 meh its not so scary to me at all. Would love to see it over rhystic study across the board from my stormy ass in just about any game.

[ISBPathfinder]

Ahhh yea I haven't run Sensei's Divining Top in like.... 10+ years. Its a cool card but if its not being used to go infinite its slows decks down a lot (time wise) and finding that extra mana all the time can be tough. I actively avoid cards that are being run only to combo and attempt to not execute combos when I can. I actually get accused of having zero wincons in most of my decks lol. I like seeing the deck function more than I do ending games. That does make sense but that still sounds somewhat intense to set up. I guess on the flip side its top so its not like anyone can really kill it without Krosan Grip or a response to it tapping.

[Moxnix]

In practice the way it feels is something like turn 2/3/4 you transmute the grim monolith /mana vault you played on t2/3 you then instantly find top becuase your odds of chaining into it are much higher than wiffing on a land especially if you havent made a land drop yet you find top it quickly find anotehr tutor and you put reservoir on top good game. U/b tutor density and overall hit card density make it such that often ill be digging for top and go oh its mind desire for 5 and then i have a free notion thief now every wheel instant wins oh i didnt find top just this copy of doomsday oh that wins too oh look necro that wins too oh an ad naus that works too like i can keep going but your blanks are counters and lands and you typically cna manipulate the top already at least one time and one land is normally not a brick since you didnt cast one yet. When i say i win like 90% of the time that's my honest evaluation but to me running bolas and no top is like running doomsday with no gush or thassa you can but why right. Im deffo a combo guy so even my non combo decks often feel like combo decks when you pilot them. To me bolas is so broken i would never choose it as a gc in lower brackets if if i followed their instructions as to me its a card that simply wins the game as soon as you resolve it most the time. I wouldn't pick necro either the one ring in a boros shell deck when my CZ doesnt represent card advantage though i could totally see my assessment of that deck being fair in the described power level. I would never play cards like necro or bolas and pretend I'm playing fair with the one ring sure it could take over that game but at least you can race a one ring you cant race bolas citadel lol. sometimes in cedh if i transmute it with no land drop i dont win until the next turn or it dies but if i did that my assessment was if i waited a turn to transmute it eats a counterspell. I'm trying to remember the last time i failed with bolas out when i didnt have the land drop ready and i cant remember its been that long. An early one ring certainly improves my win chances but I doubt to even 50%. My personal experince using the one ring myself its most powerful and takes over games when they are slower and its fog protection is more relevant. Its also worth noting when your wiff is counterpsell and not a land when they go to remove it you counter for free and start chaining off again and now every flash enabler lets you try and win on thier turn normally high fae and borne for me but some also do VFC . Say the wiff is mana drain if i see mystical tutor under i wont wait and see if it gets back to my turn and win i will grab borne and try and win on your turn now

tldr stronger low power but in high power if my hand is say i mull twice and see mox diamond grim monolith 3 lands transmute to me that is a possible turn 2 kill with bolas a turn 2 ring on an empty hand with no line to me is not as scary as a turn 2 i try and kill you all. Here is the kicker if they played a turn 2 one ring before me that does nothing to stop my kill but if its a rhystic or mystic they might draw into ways to stop me and win while I'm goign off or at least make it a much harder and a longer game.

[ISBPathfinder]

Yea most of my games go to combat, aristocrats, or some sort of spellslinger pings like guttersnipe as their wincons. The One Ring's protection is a lot more relivant for me than it is for you. It still doesn't stop non targeting life siphon but it stops quite a lot if you aren't expecting a combo win.

Its not that uncommon for me to see a certain blue tempo player bounce and replay his own One Ring a few times in a game turning into a psudo Constant Mists effect which is not fun.