Need "non-global" suggestions against counter-ramp

[Cyberium]

Counter-ramp, as in "ramping while using counterspells", such as Omnath, Locus of the Roil.

I've been playing against my friend's Omnath deck for a while and it's difficult to handle his ramping + counterspells due to a few reasons. Normally I use global effects like MLD, Winter Orb, and/or Contamination etc to deal with land ramps, but my non-green playmates were unfortunately hurt by my determination against that one ramper.

I'm here looking for non-global solutions against counter-ramp decks, such as tutor-denial effects like Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor, preferably not needing blue. Can anyone help?

[pokken]

Effects that limit casting rates like archon of emeria have always been my favorite way to curtail ramp. They struggle against established landfall strategies tho.

They are global but they tend to hurt ramp decks that want to multispell the most.

I find edict spam to also crush those commander dependent decks mostly too. As long as you can get them before they have tokens they'll struggle to beat a grave pact.

Don't try land destruction it doesn't work.

Commander theft is another decent approach. Sadly that's mostly in blue.

Some hate bears like tomik do a number on most of the landfall engines too.

[Mookie]

I'll suggest discard effects - I suppose Sire of Insanity and Mindslicer may be a bit too global, but Identity Crisis, Cruel Ultimatum, and Rakdos's Return are also solid options. One of the weaknesses of ramp-based strategies is drawing the wrong half of the deck - either all ramp and no payoff, or vice versa. If you force the ramp player to discard their hand, topdecking more ramp is pretty weak. Doesn't work against every commander though - Omnath and Tatyova, Benthic Druid are strong at topdecking because they can convert excess lands / ramp into card draw. On the other hand, they're a bit soft to their commander being removed repeatedly, so...

Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Hall of Gemstone, and other counter-hate also work.

I'm not a big fan of Aven Mindcensor effects, largely because they don't do much after the player has already ramped, and they take a lot of deck slots if you want to consistently have them down early. Still, not bad to have them as part of a tutor package.

[Ruiner]

Not sure what colors you are running but:

Stranglehold is solid anti-tutor tech and has the bonus of stopping extra turns.

Price of Glory generally irritates any blue deck, and will potentially slow them down.

Citadel of Pain can be effective at punishing people for leaving lands untapped for their counterspells.

Natural Balance is decent since it puts everyone at the same land count and doesn't put everyone super far back. I've liked this quite a bit whenever a ramp deck gets super far ahead (ironically in my Mina and Denn deck which tends to ramp out well so I recover decently fast). Ramp decks recover from this pretty well but slowing them down can provide a window to strike.

Rule of Law type effects tend to slow the pace down and stop people from chaining ramp effects and rocks.

[Serenade]

Confounding Conundrum will mostly impact the ramper.

[Legend]

Ankh of Mishra
Curse of Exhaustion
Curse of Obsession
Curse of Shaken Faith
Destructive Urge
Dwarven Blastminer
Dwarven Miner
Nevermore and similar effects
Nightshade Harvester
Polluted Bonds
Sire of Stagnation
Tectonic Instability
Tunnel Ignus
Zo-Zu the Punisher

[Cyberium]

Hm, I confess I haven't thought about one-spell cards like Rule of Law, I forgot draws can be countered by inability to cast them. It'd still hurt bystanders, but likely less less painful than me [card]Cataclysm[c/] everyone.

[Serenade]

Anyone use Curse of the Restless Dead yet?

[Ulka]

Amnesia is one I love using on ramp players because often this will set them down to one spell a turn while allowing other players to catch up. Also it can be nice to use on any player that is super far ahead but on ramp players it feels super good.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I think city of solitude, etc is your best bet. Why bother with stopping ramp when you can turn off the counterspells entirely? Dragonlord Dromoka can even lead such an endeavor!

[Cyberium]

It'd probably be unwise to include all of these when counter-ramp isn't the only deck I face. Preferably, ones with immediate impact even if I play it late game. Anti-search and rule-of-law effects seem to be the most stable and useful against non-ramp decks also. Paladin Class/Defense Grid would work like a charm also.

[3drinks]

No one has mentioned Ward of Bones why?

[kraus911]

No one has mentioned Ward of Bones why?

I usually feel this card just sets me back a turn rather than restricting my opponents because of its mana value.

It shuts down Exploration type effects but doesn't stop them from casting actual ramp spells.

But I also know I haven't tested it enough to be sure.

[3drinks]

No one has mentioned Ward of Bones why?

I usually feel this card just sets me back a turn rather than restricting my opponents because of its mana value.

It shuts down Exploration type effects but doesn't stop them from casting actual ramp spells.

But I also know I haven't tested it enough to be sure.

That's why God Nicol Bolas made Goblin Welder.

[Sinis]

Acidic Soil is sometimes okay.

[hyalopterouslemur]

Tunnel Ignus always has a pleasant response. (Probably the most I can say without the mods hating me.)

For the counters, I'm fond of Citadel of Pain. Or, just, you know, Dosan the Falling Leaf and Defense Grid

[Treamayne]

Technically global - but really more "anti-counter":

I'm a fan of Mana Cache for tables where people are counter happy (with or without ramp).If you want to keep mana open for counters, I'll take the ramp... Also good with Gemstone Array to save the cache counters for later and quite fun in any Proliferate deck.

For more pin-point response to "counter-ramp," the following can usually either evade their plan, bait a counterspell, or help slow them back to table-pace:

Cavern of Souls
Volcanic Offering
Incendiary Command
Shivan Harvest
Helldozer
Rhythm of the Wild
Slaughter Games

[hyalopterouslemur]

Aven Mindcensor is fun.

[bobthefunny]

Counter-ramp, as in "ramping while using counterspells", such as Omnath, Locus of the Roil.

I've been playing against my friend's Omnath deck for a while and it's difficult to handle his ramping + counterspells due to a few reasons. Normally I use global effects like MLD, Winter Orb, and/or Contamination etc to deal with land ramps, but my non-green playmates were unfortunately hurt by my determination against that one ramper.

I'm here looking for non-global solutions against counter-ramp decks, such as tutor-denial effects like Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor, preferably not needing blue. Can anyone help?

It's really amazing at how good Oath of Lieges is messing up the Ramp players. Here's the thing - They're investing cards and mana into gaining an advantage, and now that advantage is either negated, or drastically reduced. I know that several discussions have risen around the card, even to when I first played it on stream we had a good discussion. Fast forward a few months later, and whoever the ramp player was in that game would immediately destroy it on sight. I feel that says something of it.

[pokken]

It's really amazing at how good Oath of Lieges is messing up the Ramp players. Here's the thing - They're investing cards and mana into gaining an advantage, and now that advantage is either negated, or drastically reduced. I know that several discussions have risen around the card, even to when I first played it on stream we had a good discussion. Fast forward a few months later, and whoever the ramp player was in that game would immediately destroy it on sight. I feel that says something of it.

I know I have saddened a lot of ramp players with Scholarship Sponsor'ing but you've got to be really careful with both those cards to keep everything from getting out of hand

[Cyberium]

It's really amazing at how good Oath of Lieges is messing up the Ramp players. Here's the thing - They're investing cards and mana into gaining an advantage, and now that advantage is either negated, or drastically reduced. I know that several discussions have risen around the card, even to when I first played it on stream we had a good discussion. Fast forward a few months later, and whoever the ramp player was in that game would immediately destroy it on sight. I feel that says something of it.

It's certainly satisfying to help the rest of the table catch up for free, and the less color one plays, the more lands one could fetch. I certainly don't mind WotC makes white the anti-cheap color.