Mystical Teachings

[Sinis]

EDHREC has this card in 2% of decks that can run it; so, it doesn't see a lot of play. But, lately, I've been thinking of running it; Scarab God might want it, among others.

Does anyone have any experience with this card (outside of the modern deck)?

[pokken]

I love this card. I often wind up cutting it because I'm short on instants, but I am definitely going to play it in the next UBx control shell I build, whatever that is. Aminatou wound up too high on creatures and sorceries, unfortunately, but that deck is on its way out.

I generally think you need to be playing lots of cheap instants. It feels like it'd be really good in a firemind's foresight type grixis deck.

I've had the urge to do an almost all-instants control shell that wins at instant speed using the reset / reiterate combo, but I haven't found the commander I want yet. Maybe Kess

In general I think EDH has gotten a bit focused around sorcery speed board wipes which makes it so a lot of times the thing I need is a board wipe, which is part of my mental block in playing it.

[cryogen]

I used to run it but it's so expensive. 4/6 mana on top of whatever you cast means only big mana or draw go decks can use it.

[TheGildedGoose]

Perfect for a Tasigur control shell.

As an aside, UB Teachings is my favorite Pauper deck, so I have a huge fondness for the card.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Card was godlike in Time Spiral standard. You could t4 teachings into t5 teferi, all with mana open for responses.

That being said, two cards for 10 is a lot. I think it's best as spellseeker backup for dedicated consultation decks and lesser elsewhere, but man, I'd slam it into a flex spot any day just for the nostalgia trip.

[ISBPathfinder]

In general, it just ends up being a little heavy handed as far as the cost to tutor. Its nice that its instant speed but the overhead of paying 4/6 for the effect is just so dang high.

[bobthefunny]

I'll start off by saying that I have turned towards running fewer tutors outside of very specific items (typically equipment). On top of that, even when I ran tutors, 4 mana was a lot to have to pay to tutor, and if I was spending that much or more, I wanted some extra value out of it (Fleshwrither, Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, Dimir House Guard).

That said, a case can still be made for Mystical Teachings.

There are few tutors that search at instant speed, and most that do are either to top of deck (Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor), or narrow (Eladamri's Call, Entomb).

As a point of interest, until recently, the instant speed tutors that did not go to top of library were predominantly in green, and for creatures. If we're looking at just ub, your only other instant speed tutor that got cards to hand until recently was Gifts Ungiven. All the others either put it into the GY, or on top of the library (or 3rd from the top). ((search))

Recently, Mausoleum Secrets was printed, but that has a fair few limitations as well.

This leaves Mystical Teachings in a rather unique position still. Sure, you can jump through some very minor hoops to either draw the card you tutored to top with Vampiric, or give your other tutors flash, but mystical teachings remains quite potent due to being all on one card.

===

It also 'combos' with Teferi, if you want to annoy rules people.

You can also 'cheat' the flashback cost with things like Spellweaver Volute, which you should totally do.

[Mookie]

Mystical Teachings is certainly a powerful card, but it's also really expensive - four mana (even at instant speed) for a relatively narrow tutor is a pretty steep price, and six mana is firmly in 'I have absolutely nothing better to do with my mana' territory. Good in lategame, poor at any other time.

I would also say that it also suffers somewhat from instants being a fairly narrow card type - the vast majority of instants I see played are either spot removal or countermagic, with draw spells (and a few tutors) rounding out the remainder. It's certainly possible to play a wider variety of instants and do some toolboxing, but I don't feel like instants naturally have as much variety in function as enchantments, sorceries, or creatures. There are a lot of game-warping effects, combo pieces, and unique engines available on the other card types, but instants tend to be a lot more ephemeral in their impact.

I've thought about it for my Kess and Tasigur decks, but never felt like it would be worth running - if I were to run it, I'd probably just be grabbing a removal spell the majority of the time, and it seems better to just cut out the middleman and run another removal spell in its slot instead. Of all my decks, only Mizzix has some real variety in targets available (due to running some spell-based combos), and in that deck, it is outclassed by Firemind's Foresight. I'd probably also run Invert // Invent before it.

[hyalopterouslemur]

I used to run it but it's so expensive. 4/6 mana on top of whatever you cast means only big mana or draw go decks can use it.

Not to mention that Mystical Tutor and Merchant Scroll are right there for what you need most of the time. Over in black, you have Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Diabolic Intent, Grim Tutor...Hell, I'd probably run Diabolic Tutor or Increasing Ambition before this, just to give you an idea how bad it is.

I mean, yes, it's an instant. No, that doesn't make it good.

[toctheyounger]

It's one that keeps getting recommended for Dralnu, Lich Lord. Thing is, everything you run already has flashback and there's better tutors about that aren't so costly, and it just hasn't made the grade for me. I can see other places it would be at least a cool pet card, but I don't have any other decks that desperately desire it.

[3drinks]

It's very good, I even ran it in modern (cruel control) to high success. Play it. Don't listen to the naysayers, just sleeve it up and run head on (directly to the forehead) with it. It's great.

If you find few instants, then typically speaking that's a classic sign of an opportunity cost within your deck that should be addressed.

[Sinis]

Thanks for the feedback, all!

Part of the reasoning is that I've started to get serious mileage out of Notion Thief, and part of me wonders if I would (could?) pay 8 mana to essentially have another copy. Or, that Mystical Teachings would just be a strong card on its own in decks that already want to play draw-go (like The Scarab God).

[hyalopterouslemur]

It's very good, I even ran it in modern (cruel control) to high success. Play it. Don't listen to the naysayers, just sleeve it up and run head on (directly to the forehead) with it. It's great.

If you find few instants, then typically speaking that's a classic sign of an opportunity cost within your deck that should be addressed.

Instants are good. But, say you search for Counterspell (which, let's face it, some variant of Counterspell is this thing's target 99% of the time), that's 3uuu. Or on the flashback, 5uub. So, it's comparable to Counterlash. Who plays Counterlash again?

[3drinks]

It's very good, I even ran it in modern (cruel control) to high success. Play it. Don't listen to the naysayers, just sleeve it up and run head on (directly to the forehead) with it. It's great.

If you find few instants, then typically speaking that's a classic sign of an opportunity cost within your deck that should be addressed.

Instants are good. But, say you search for Counterspell (which, let's face it, some variant of Counterspell is this thing's target 99% of the time), that's 3uuu. Or on the flashback, 5uub. So, it's comparable to Counterlash. Who plays Counterlash again?

I think this is a bit of a false equivalency as it doesnt take into account that you're paying over multiple turns nor does it account for fetching into a 0 cost response., while also being capable of fetching any other instant speed game ender such as Restoration Angel or High Tide.

[onering]

It's very good, I even ran it in modern (cruel control) to high success. Play it. Don't listen to the naysayers, just sleeve it up and run head on (directly to the forehead) with it. It's great.

If you find few instants, then typically speaking that's a classic sign of an opportunity cost within your deck that should be addressed.

Instants are good. But, say you search for Counterspell (which, let's face it, some variant of Counterspell is this thing's target 99% of the time), that's 3uuu. Or on the flashback, 5uub. So, it's comparable to Counterlash. Who plays Counterlash again?

I think this is a bit of a false equivalency as it doesnt take into account that you're paying over multiple turns nor does it account for fetching into a 0 cost response., while also being capable of fetching any other instant speed game ender such as Restoration Angel or High Tide.

Excellent points. This is a great card, just narrow. Being able to search up two cards, at instant speed, spread over turns, is very powerful. It can grab a wide range of answers that prevent a combo from going off as well as search up certain win cons. Flashing it back eot to grab Pestermite and cast it late game is a thing.

[Sinis]

Good points. While my group would frown on ending the game with Restoration Angel, there are high-powered instants where you want to EOT search and then make a big play on your own turn.

[bobthefunny]

It's very good, I even ran it in modern (cruel control) to high success. Play it. Don't listen to the naysayers, just sleeve it up and run head on (directly to the forehead) with it. It's great.

If you find few instants, then typically speaking that's a classic sign of an opportunity cost within your deck that should be addressed.

Instants are good. But, say you search for Counterspell (which, let's face it, some variant of Counterspell is this thing's target 99% of the time), that's 3uuu. Or on the flashback, 5uub. So, it's comparable to Counterlash. Who plays Counterlash again?

Nothing says that you need to cast the card on the same turn either. Say you're on turn 4. You have some cards in hand, and want to go get Restoration Angel as a play. But you also don't want to give up your chance to use the Counterspell or Disenchant effects in hand.

If you were to run Demonic Tutor, or especially Diabolic Tutor, you'd be giving up your turn to set up your future play. With Mystical Teachings, you can still wait and see how the board develops, and even adapt to it on the EOT of your opponent, while still being able to defer that choice, should one of your other answers be of a better fit at the time.

In fact, I'll go so far to say that should someone be running Demonic or Diabolic Tutor, they probably aren't casting that spell same turn, unless it's later in the game and mana is less of an object - at which point - same deal.

[hyalopterouslemur]

Yes, but then why pay so much more for an instant?

[bobthefunny]

Because you can't cast demonic eot after keeping your options open.

[gilrad]

The card's strength is in being able to respond to big plays with narrow silver bullets for explosive turnaround plays. If you're just looking for extra copies of your strongest cards, then indeed you should exhaust the better tutors first before making your way to this card.

If your meta usually involves big Genesis waves you can gather specimens on, unanswered late-game consecrated sphinxs that you can desertion, time walk effects to wild ricochet, or wheel of fortune effects that are begging for a notion thief to ruin everyone's day, then MT is almost a sort of omni-wincon that can be any of those cards at the exact moment you need it.

This of course requires that:

- You're playing a suitable suite of silver bullets,

And

- games in your meta aren't basically finished by the time you have 10+ mana for your awesome reversal play.

[PrimevalCommander]

This of course requires that:

- You're playing a suitable suite of silver bullets,

And

- games in your meta aren't basically finished by the time you have 10+ mana for your awesome reversal play.

Which begs another question, what are you doing with 8-10 mana untapped in the late game unless its your only card in hand? Guess if your playing draw-go control. Jokes on the opponent if they play a high value spell into 8 open mana from the blue player. Unless they are almost hellbent. In which case I am probably tutoring Dig Through Time or Fact or Fiction so I can get some cards back.

The ability seems strong, but the cmc makes it hard to justify in practice. I would cast it for 4 in the mid game to either telegraph a tutor and scare my opponents out of playing stuff, or tutor up whatever removal/draw may be useful to me while I have the mana open. Impossible to just sit there with 4+ mana open for several turn rotations waiting for an opportunity.

[Sinis]

Which begs another question, what are you doing with 8-10 mana untapped in the late game unless its your only card in hand?

Playing The Scarab God is my usual answer to that question.

[PrimevalCommander]

Playing The Scarab God is my usual answer to that question.

That's fair. Seems like a decent spot for a card like this. A commander that is accustomed to leaving much mana untapped. Or Draw-Go style of play like Dralnu Lich Lord. I always wanted to play Dralnu as a commander, having started magic in Time Spiral, but haven't thought of anything unique enough to build it.

If I was playing UB Pauper EDH, I would play this for silver bullet cards, as tutors are at a premium there.

[Muhammad457]

That being said, two cards for 10 is a lot. I think it's best as spellseeker backup for dedicated consultation decks and lesser elsewhere, but man, I'd slam it into a flex spot any day just for the nostalgia trip.

Agree! Two cards for 10 is hefty, but as spellseeker backup in dedicated consultation decks, it's solid.Magic 8 Ball