Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[Avacyn Believer]

He is very much anti chance as a character, with plans within plans and multiple contingency options whenever possible. The big reason why he runs the Strip is because it's a money mill. Nothing more, nothing less.

I been thinking about this, and I want to say that this superficial design (Casino strip owner = dice rolling) is probably rooted in how much product they have to design and release relatively quickly, comparing to how slow it used to be. I can't imagine they have much time on each set, let alone small UB sets. There is always going to be inherit difficulty translating complex characters to MtG colour identity but so far I've been enjoying playing with decks that they kept as their own theme (Hobbits, and Imperium).

[ilovesaprolings]

I see they were not in their creative period when choosing the deck themes

I find it funny that Fallout is sultai-mardu-naya-jeskai
And Thunder Junction is sultai-mardu-naya-izzet (the forgot white)

I love naya and like sultai, but damn

[Mookie]

How have the new Surveil Lands been treating everyone?

My current opinion is that I wish they were worse so they still fit below my $2-per-card price limit. Unfortunately, people seem to have picked up on the fact that they're actually good, so all the prices are up relative to prerelease season. It reminds me of when the Temples were first previewed, since people were pretty down on those too. Sadly, with Standard rotation at three years, they'll probably stay expensive for even longer than usual. Hopefully we'll see a swift reprint.

Overall, I think they're quite strong. I'm not running many fetches in my decks, so I lack that synergy. However, most of my decks are graveyard-based, so some incidental self-mill is free value. Karoos are sweet because they provide virtual card advantage, and I think the surveil lands fill a similar role - any time I mill a spell to cast with Kess or recur with Life from the Loam, it's like I drew a free card. They're also typed for Keeper of Progenitus / Emeria, the Sky Ruin, which is always nice.

[cheonice]

How have the new Surveil Lands been treating everyone?

I preordered some and am not looking back. They are a perfect fit fir Lord Windgrace. They found their way into Selvala, Explorer Returned and Ephara, God of the Polis, too, both of which have a slight graveyard subtheme with Emeria, the Sky Ruin and Sun Titan, while running a few fetchies.

[folding_music]

fallout 1's graphics are not dated, they're perfect! art style dunks resolution anyday

[Dunadain]

I wouldn't consider them stronger than triomes, not in three colour decks

Fixing is cheap, triomes might be better in four and five color decks, but three color decks don't really need them.

Consider let's you draw a card, Surveil doesn't.

Consider costs you a card and replaces itself, the surveil lands don't cost you a card in the first place, so don't need to replace themselves. Both cards are card neutral.

[duducrash]

Do you ever cycle your triomes?

[Dunadain]

Do you ever cycle your triomes?

Rarely

[MAGUSZANIN]

I do agree that the Surveil Lands are likely better than a lot of our budget/precon lands, especially if you are enfranchised enough to have Fetchlands already. Snarls already come in tapped in 3 color decks a significant fraction of the time and don't otherwise do anything, Surveil is better than Scry from the Temples and the land types do matter.

Better than Triomes depends on the use case. For 3 color decks I think you probably still run the Triome as your usually preferred turn 1 fetch target since that immediately fixes your mana for the rest of the game. However that doesn't mean you don't run these at all. In any Green/X/X Deck I like them as a turn 2 Nature's Lore target, especially if you are on a graveyard strategy. And they are obviously strong in any 2 color deck where your mana fixing options are more limited.

The biggest gameplay issue I see is tapped land density. I'm already trying to keep my tapped lands under 5 in most of my decks, and one or more Triomes eats up a big fraction of those slots, plus any utility options. Something like Myriad Landscape is a ramp/mana fixing spell in the manabase of my non-green decks, you have Evolving/Terramorphic in landfall decks, etc, and there is definitely a question of how much tapped lands a deck can support.

Budget allocation is also a consideration, since I have so many of those other tapped lands they are functionally free, where as each Surveil Land is $5+. That is a couple additional (potentially very powerful) cards on my next singles order. Is the marginal gains of a Surveil Land worth 5 or 10 dollars? Maybe, depending on the deck, but is it better than 2 $2.50 spells? Probably not IMHO, at least not when our mana is already really good.

From some recent sets, Forensic Gadgeteer is under $2, Case of the Locked Hothouse is $1 and a bit further back we have Ravnica Remastered with a bunch of excellent reprints in the 1 to 5 dollar range (Birds of Paradise, Chord of Calling, Rhythm of the Wild, Spark Double, etc) taking some of the lowest prices from a quick glance through TCGPlayer listings. I could do similar lists for LCI and DrWho. Sure, you might not be building a Clue/Artifact deck that makes Gadgeteer worth a purchase, but I spread that list around enough that there is a good chance you want something in the 6 cards I just rattled off if you are in Green or Blue.

If we were still in the dark ages of 2017 with Draconic Domination's all tapland manabase (no no, get back in the box Sliver Swarm!) then I would be more willing to see that argument, but we have so many good budget duals these days, and even most precon manabases are functional out of the box. Yes, you can obviously sink a bit of money into them to push them towards perfection, but you are mostly unlikely to get mana screwed playing these non upgraded, and it's easy to throw a few good lands and mana rocks in there to push that chance down even further. And with the advent of WOTC being willing to put some extensive and worthwhile mana bases into decks like the DrWho lists that is only going to get better over time, as long as they don't backtrack on that policy.

Especially with how cheap precons are a couple months after release in the current environment. Blast from the Past is 35$ish and the better dual lands in that precon are worth 16 dollars (ie, the ones not already printed in a ton of precons). Trade/sell the Heroic Intervention and Displaced Dinosaurs for roughly 10$ each, pocket the staples like Path/Swords, Three Visits and the Talismans than can easily fit into basically any deck? You barely paid anything and got a bunch of cheap but potentially strong cards in there besides. The math works similarly for various other decks as well, I just used Blast from the Past because it had a couple 10ish$ cards in it to make the math obvious.

So I just can't see myself going out and picking up 4 of each Surveil Land because they are the next revolution in manabases. The math says we don't need them to cast our spells, and they are expensive enough I can allocate that not insignificant budget to other portions of my decks. Will I be happy to put them in a deck where their specific advantages make them worthwhile? Sure, if I have the spare budget. But I'm not going out of my way for them.

[Hermes_]

[TheGildedGoose]

Agent Frank Horrigan

Not a great card, but HYPE. Dude terrified me as a kid.

[pokken]

Do you ever cycle your triomes?

I don't play a lot of them but I do cycle Irrigated Farmland and Secluded Steppe a lot. I don't think I would likely ever pay 3 for that effect tho

[MAGUSZANIN]

A bit disappointed in Alpha Deathclaw by virtue of it's sheer mana cost. 13 mana into that permanent, and they can respond to the Monstrous activation to prevent the second removal trigger? Yikes.

Even if it had relevant other text it still wouldn't be amazing at this cost. Might end some precon biodome games, and if you can flash it in or do other stuff with it then maybe it gets better? Not convinced, even as a Henzie player who could be casting this on 5 with haste.

[TheGildedGoose]

A bit disappointed in Alpha Deathclaw by virtue of it's sheer mana cost. 13 mana into that permanent, and they can respond to the Monstrous activation to prevent the second removal trigger? Yikes.

Even if it had relevant other text it still wouldn't be amazing at this cost. Might end some precon biodome games, and if you can flash it in or do other stuff with it then maybe it gets better? Not convinced, even as a Henzie player who could be casting this on 5 with haste.

If it was a 5/5 for 5 with the same text it would be very playable. But we can't have nice things.

[MAGUSZANIN]

Even if it just had a little bit of extra on the body, 7/7 or an extra keyword? Or maybe a monstrous cost that is cheaper. If it wasn't seven mana and eating my entire turn to activate then I would be more enthusiastic about it.

But as it is you are paying a ton of mana for a marginally on rate body with a removal spell stapled to it, And then even more mana to upgrade that body and get another removal spell. That's not bad, but it's not anything exciting.

Also, Menace and trample is kind of an awkward pair? If they have a pair of 4/4 beast tokens or something, then they get to block this and trade up. All menace adds to the trample is making it so they can't absorb most of the damage with their one 5/5 blocker, and all trample adds to Menace is making a double chump block less effective. At the point in the game where this is going to come down, the opponents will have enough blockers and large enough blockers that in order to get through you are probably burning your removal trigger on one of them. And that means that it is not going to remove the non-creature permanent that the broad nature of the removal seems to be intended for.

[NZB2323]

Commander Sofia Daguerre might have to find a place in Éowyn, Shieldmaiden human tribal, but I'm not sure what to cut for her.

[Dunadain]

Idk guys, Noxious Gearhulk is playable, and this guy seems better overall.

I don't think he's particularly great, but he's fine.

[MAGUSZANIN]

Commander Sofia Daguerre might have to find a place in Éowyn, Shieldmaiden human tribal, but I'm not sure what to cut for her.

Maybe? The legendary restriction is very narrow, but there aren't that many removal spells on human type creatures in those colors. Really wish it said "historic permanent", so it would at least hit artifacts. There's going to be some amount of times where this is in your hand and there is not a commander in play that you want to kill and you were going to wish it was one of a variety of broader removal spells.

It is a permanent that can be flickered though, so that's not nothing.

Idk guys, Noxious Gearhulk is playable, and this guy seems better overall.

I don't think he's particularly great, but he's fine.

I can't remember the last time I saw someone play that Gearhulk, but it was probably at least two years ago, and probably in a precon that had it in the original list and then they cut it.

I do agree that it's better than Gearhulk, and with some decent synergy they are both okay beaters that can help a blink deck close a game. I'm not saying it's a bad card, I'm saying that it's disappointing next to the in game enemy it is based on.

[Avacyn Believer]

Idk guys, Noxious Gearhulk is playable, and this guy seems better overall.

I don't think he's particularly great, but he's fine.

Agreed, the ETB trigger is better than Noxious to be abused by flickers and such.

[CommanderMaster999]

Looks like "Yes man" got put as a white Humble Defector and it's better because it gets counters when used and makes tokens when it leaves

[Ruiner]

Yes Man, Personal Securitron has a pretty fun design. I can definitely see some neat politicking moves with it, whether in the 99 or as a commander. It's not exactly powerful, but it is neat.

Silver Shroud Costume seems very playable, and the quest for it in Fallout 4 was really cool.

[duducrash]

I don't usually play more than 2 collours, other than Karador, Ghost Chieftain of course, so the fixing part part I ight be undervaluing . But I think the triomes are worse than the surveil lands if you never or almost never cycle

[CommanderMaster999]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!?!?!?!?!

THE PRECONS….ARE INTRODUCING!!!……

SPOILER

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ENEMY ODYSSEY FILTER LAAAAAAAAAAAAANDS!!!!!!!!

[Avacyn Believer]

Liberty Prime, Recharged red, white, blue, USA, USA, USA I am gonna have too much fun quoting Libery Prime every time I play it.

[TheGildedGoose]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!?!?!?!?!

THE PRECONS….ARE INTRODUCING!!!……

SPOILER

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ENEMY ODYSSEY FILTER LAAAAAAAAAAAAANDS!!!!!!!!

Of all the enemy dual cycles to complete, this is the one they chose? Genuinely feels like trolling.