[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Golgari Thug

[RedCheese]

Kinda depressing all of this talk about how sped up Commander has become...

[ironic gesture]

Kinda depressing all of this talk about how sped up Commander has become...

Obviously this isn't possible for everyone but I recommend suggesting playing lower power decks from time-to-time. It's also good to carry around lower power decks in case you end up in a pod of newer players.

[RedCheese]

Kinda depressing all of this talk about how sped up Commander has become...

Obviously this isn't possible for everyone but I recommend suggesting playing lower power decks from time-to-time. It's also good to carry around lower power decks in case you end up in a pod of newer players.

But i only play lowr powered decks. Well in the 7-8 margin at least. None of my decks has infinite combos or Mana crypt type of cards. Just sad that the game evolved to this point .

[toctheyounger]

But i only play lowr powered decks. Well in the 7-8 margin at least. None of my decks has infinite combos or Mana crypt type of cards. Just sad that the game evolved to this point .

Imo it's inevitable with any format. The longer it's around the longer wotc needs to cater cards to it, and we're no different. If you can't afford RL, you buy the latest and greatest to keep up that way.

I think, from a brewer's perspective, to some degree it's part and parcel of the playerbase maturing too. For example, I specifically want a fast game these days. I have about 95% less spare time than I did ten years ago, so I want to make the best of it. I'd much rather have a short and sweet game than have to scoop 5 turns into a durdlefest. That's just my life, my hands are tied.

[ironic gesture]

Kinda depressing all of this talk about how sped up Commander has become...

Obviously this isn't possible for everyone but I recommend suggesting playing lower power decks from time-to-time. It's also good to carry around lower power decks in case you end up in a pod of newer players.

But i only play lowr powered decks. Well in the 7-8 margin at least. None of my decks has infinite combos or Mana crypt type of cards. Just sad that the game evolved to this point .

Ok, so play lower than 7-8 decks. Play precons every once in awhile. As long as you can find a few like-minded players it's possible to play the game you want.

[Mookie]

There are a lot of Clones with upside, and Progenitor Mimic... is one of them. It can certainly represent a ton of extra value if it sticks around for a while, but I'm generally a bit skeptical of the average lifespan of creatures with upkeep triggers. If I wanted to make multiple copies of a thing, I would generally favor doing so immediately with Rite of Replication, or Quasiduplicate. That said, variance does make things more interesting, so Progenitor Mimic seems reasonable in slower, removal-light metas.

[RedCheese]

Obviously this isn't possible for everyone but I recommend suggesting playing lower power decks from time-to-time. It's also good to carry around lower power decks in case you end up in a pod of newer players.

But i only play lowr powered decks. Well in the 7-8 margin at least. None of my decks has infinite combos or Mana crypt type of cards. Just sad that the game evolved to this point .

Ok, so play lower than 7-8 decks. Play precons every once in awhile. As long as you can find a few like-minded players it's possible to play the game you want.

Those suggestions arent feasible. Also my comment isn't exactly due to my situation. Just pointing out that a format made to be casual and throw down janky and timmy cards no longer exists in general. At least in this site.

[3drinks]

Kinda depressing all of this talk about how sped up Commander has become...

Obviously this isn't possible for everyone but I recommend suggesting playing lower power decks from time-to-time. It's also good to carry around lower power decks in case you end up in a pod of newer players.

But i only play lowr powered decks. Well in the 7-8 margin at least. None of my decks has infinite combos or Mana crypt type of cards. Just sad that the game evolved to this point .

Infinite combos have nothing to do with this whatsoever. Case-in-point, I maintain what I call the "baseline" Kaalia made from commons and uncommons. It's role is to act as an entry point to the commander to buy into assuming you have zero cards. The pieces retail for ~$116usd. It too has a combo with Dreadhound and the interaction with Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead + Leonin Relic-Warder. Can also work with Syr Konrad, but types matter and all and the demon dog is the pick.

The point is the speed at which WotC pushes out Power Creep in what seems to be monthly sets is responsible for both the speed and over-homogenization of the format. This is why there's been pushback with more and more people finding PreDH, rather than chasing the next set's $50 chase card.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

But i only play lowr powered decks. Well in the 7-8 margin at least. None of my decks has infinite combos or Mana crypt type of cards. Just sad that the game evolved to this point .

Ok, so play lower than 7-8 decks. Play precons every once in awhile. As long as you can find a few like-minded players it's possible to play the game you want.

Those suggestions arent feasible. Also my comment isn't exactly due to my situation. Just pointing out that a format made to be casual and throw down janky and timmy cards no longer exists in general. At least in this site.

I duuno if that's true. I think @materpillar is living proof that you can still find a good ol' battlecruiser rumble out there if you're willing to look. Just look at the man's decks!

Also, let's not overly romanticize the quote-unquote good ol' days. I've been playing edh since 2010 and the format is faster, but it's better now. Do you really miss the days of when boros was nearly unplayable? Or when the format was dominated by G/B/x decks because Prime Time into urborg and coffers was usually the best thing to be doing in any given game? Or how true aggro was nearly nonexistant because control/combo/midrange piles would just bury you in value before you could make a dent in their life total? I don't miss any of that crap. I know that the format's got different issues these days and many of those things suck all the same. But I wouldn't trade the current problems for the old ones, not a chance.

[3drinks]

Ok, so play lower than 7-8 decks. Play precons every once in awhile. As long as you can find a few like-minded players it's possible to play the game you want.

Those suggestions arent feasible. Also my comment isn't exactly due to my situation. Just pointing out that a format made to be casual and throw down janky and timmy cards no longer exists in general. At least in this site.

I duuno if that's true. I think @materpillar is living proof that you can still find a good ol' battlecruiser rumble out there if you're willing to look. Just look at the man's decks!

Also, let's not overly romanticize the quote-unquote good ol' days. I've been playing edh since 2010 and the format is faster, but it's better now. Do you really miss the days of when boros was nearly unplayable? Or when the format was dominated by G/B/x decks because Prime Time into urborg and coffers was usually the best thing to be doing in any given game? Or how true aggro was nearly nonexistant because control/combo/midrange piles would just bury you in value before you could make a dent in their life total? I don't miss any of that crap. I know that the format's got different issues these days and many of those things suck all the same. But I wouldn't trade the current problems for the old ones, not a chance.

The only thing I'd tone down is rampant proliferation of treasures to make my Armageddons good again. Also, maybe not making g the catch-all colour that somehow can miraculously do everything........

[TheAmericanSpirit]

The only thing I'd tone down is rampant proliferation of treasures to make my Armageddons good again. Also, maybe not making g the catch-all colour that somehow can miraculously do everything........

You do you, man. As I said, today's EDH isn't perfect and sometimes it ain't pretty. But it's much more diverse in my experience than it was between 2010-2014, despite edhrec and constant flavor-of-the-month generals popping up. There's more players now, more cards, and generally speaking more balance between colors and strategies. If there ever was a golden age for this format, we're likely in it right now.

[Mookie]

But i only play lowr powered decks. Well in the 7-8 margin at least. None of my decks has infinite combos or Mana crypt type of cards. Just sad that the game evolved to this point .

Ok, so play lower than 7-8 decks. Play precons every once in awhile. As long as you can find a few like-minded players it's possible to play the game you want.

Those suggestions arent feasible. Also my comment isn't exactly due to my situation. Just pointing out that a format made to be casual and throw down janky and timmy cards no longer exists in general. At least in this site.

This reminds me of a video essay I saw a few days ago. If you want to play big Timmy cards or other nonsense, the only thing stopping you is you.

...I don't necessarily agree with the essay's specific conclusion that it's possible to make a janky deck viable by adding broken cards and fast mana, or that it is easy to power down a too-strong deck by doing the reverse... but I will generally agree with their recommendation to play the decks and cards you want to play.

You do you, man. As I said, today's EDH isn't perfect and sometimes it ain't pretty. But it's much more diverse in my experience than it was between 2010-2014, despite edhrec and constant flavor-of-the-month generals popping up. There's more players now, more cards, and generally speaking more balance between colors and strategies. If there ever was a golden age for this format, we're likely in it right now.

If there is one thing I miss about the early days of EDH, it is the sense of exploration. If you want cards that do something, they may not have even existed (or been prohibitively expensive), which meant that there was always a sense of delving into the unexplored mines of Gatherer to find a hidden gem. EDHREC and other resources certainly contribute to the speed at which the format is solved... but WotC's increased focus on Commander has certainly turbocharged things.

Comparing MTG to a more traditional videogame: if EDHREC are the third-party walkthroughs and resources for our game, precons and broken staples are the in-game tutorial and pay-to-win microtransactions, respectively. They may make the game more approachable for new players and whales... but if what you want is a sense of mystery and exploration, that has certainly been harder to find. It's possible to spice things up by playing the game on hard mode / imposing restrictions on yourself, but those don't make quite as much sense in a multiplayer setting.

...I suppose the other way I see games being refreshed (without a direct expansion) is via game mods. EDH is already a mod of the core MTG ruleset, so maybe my nostalgia for the sense of exploration is just a sign that I'm looking for a new format? Hmmm... I have been playing a ton of cube recently.

[pokken]

I had thought edhrec would homogenize everything but it seems to just enable people to play any random general pretty well without a lot of screwing around. I see all kinds of diversity at my shop. That said, the diversity is more in the variety of decks and commands--those commanders are still mostly doing EDHrec things. But it's good enough for me.

A lot of it is that wizards is really putting new commanders on rails though too, and the younger people I play with tend to play recent things.

[3drinks]

Tuesday, July 25th, 2023; Immortal Servitude

[TheGildedGoose]

I thought this was going to be Diabolic Servitude and I got excited to extoll its virtues and argue that it's underrated.

Immortal Servitude is incredibly niche, mostly relegated to Shadowborn Apostle decks I suspect. I wanted to play it in my Nethroi, Apex of Death aristocrat combo deck, but Rally the Ancestors is way better there.

[PrimevalCommander]

I'm pretty sure we saw this card before. Mostly worse than Ascend from Avernus at the same mana value. It probably compares somewhat favorably to Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt due to the different mana value limiter on each of these, but being a land on the back has major advantages.

As they print more mass zombify effects, I have been looking to try out several in various decks. Having one of these in the deck really helps late game play-ability. I have not tried Rise of the Dark Realms but Ascend from Avernus has done well for me. Living Death just wins games, and I will be testing Storm of Souls in a blink deck and Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt in another.

Immortal Servitude is probably a slam dunk in Lurrus of the Dream-Den builds though. So it could even find a home somewhere. Looks really strong in 1-drop tribal builds if that is a thing.

[Lifeless]

I've never seen anyone play this outside our Guild mana cube where it puts in good work because 3cmc is so common in there. It's really niche and could probably cost 1 less mana and still be unplayed.

[onering]

I'm pretty sure it sucks, and we'll eventually get a 5 mana reanimate everything CMC 3 or less in your yard that just outclassed this. I guess you can drop it for 8 to grab a bunch of CMC 5 creatures, but that's a lot of setup an narrow card choices when you can do the same for all you're creatures for like 1 more.

This could, one day, be an awesome roleplayer, if ever there's a BWx commander that cares about a specific CMC for creatures, preferably low. If you're already going to have a butt load of 2 drops, and get value from having 2 drops, then having this specifically to cast it for 5 mana would be strong.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Pretty outclassed by Return to the Ranks et al. I can't imagine anyone's using this to mass reanimate big stuff and its competition for reanimating a swath of little %$#% is waaay too steep.

Cool art though.

[materpillar]

I duuno if that's true. I think @materpillar is living proof that you can still find a good ol' battlecruiser rumble out there if you're willing to look. Just look at the man's decks!

You do you, man. As I said, today's EDH isn't perfect and sometimes it ain't pretty. But it's much more diverse in my experience than it was between 2010-2014, despite edhrec and constant flavor-of-the-month generals popping up. There's more players now, more cards, and generally speaking more balance between colors and strategies. If there ever was a golden age for this format, we're likely in it right now.

For clarity, I've been playing with the same guys since high school over a decade ago. We've definitely felt the format speed up. I don't know that I'd label my playgroup as "battlecrusier" but I suppose that depends on your labeling of what exactly that means. We're definitely not high power, I personally classify us at "would pubstomp precons". A lot of our decks, if goldfishing, can present table wide lethal turn 7-8 with some consistency and our average game length is 10 turns. We just tend to avoid cards/combos that are Counterspell or die. We still run a fair amount of Doom Blade or die stuff. Since we explicitly try to run winconditions that are easy to answer our game length is a bit longer than normal. My decks now would absolutely blow decks of a decade ago out of the water.

I can still find a home for silly Timmy cards in my meta but there's significantly less of them per deck. If you want a big dumb Timmy card you need it to either be 1) very synergistic or 2) be playing a pile of removal / control strategy to keep yourself alive while beating face with it.

The amount of "tap out and die" or "if this survives to my upkeep and I'll instantly win" cards that exist in this format is just way way higher than it was a decade ago.

I think I like EDH's overall format speed more than when I first threw a deck together but noticeably less that 5 years ago.

[yeti1069]

I think I like EDH's overall format speed more than when I first threw a deck together but noticeably less that 5 years ago.

I can agree with this. I definitely feel like it's harder to play decks that take a few turns of setup to really get rolling, and it's harder to justify bulky top ends to most decks. Most decks seem to eschew 3-mana rocks entirely, even those with significant upside, and I'm increasingly finding that for many decks I don't even want to be running the 2-mana rocks, because they're just too slow. Staples like Cultivate have made way for Nature's Lore in more and more decks.

Part of this stems from new legends often being printed at lower mana values (I haven't done any research, but I'd bet most legends of the past were 5+ mana, whereas I feel like many are 3-4 now), and of course WotC has been pushing creature power levels a lot in recent years. We get strictly better cards in every set, and ever more efficient options. I can't remember the last time I saw someone cast a 4-mana counterspell of any type.

These observations are from a mix of playing at a few different LGSs that tend to skew a little lower on power level (few/no combos, less interaction), and from playing regularly on Spelltable.

[Yatsufusa]

I had thought edhrec would homogenize everything but it seems to just enable people to play any random general pretty well without a lot of screwing around. I see all kinds of diversity at my shop. That said, the diversity is more in the variety of decks and commands--those commanders are still mostly doing EDHrec things. But it's good enough for me.

A lot of it is that wizards is really putting new commanders on rails though too, and the younger people I play with tend to play recent things.

Yeah, I noticed a lot of the newer commanders give of the vibe of "Just do the assigned things, you will generate (hand/field) advantage thanks to your commander". The cards in their 99 I would bluntly classify as "subpar" in my decks, but the commander does work so well that they usually easily recover from wipes. Heck in one game I had with Ryusei months ago I was constantly performing wipes with Ryusei and Nevinyrral's Disk so that the opposing board just doesn't threaten lethal in one cycle (and it was from sheer synergy, not combo).

It's also a bit annoying I literally have to take a look at a lot of new cards just to see what they do (and run all the plausible synergies/interactions afresh on all sides in my head, which has slowed down thanks to age, although sometimes I go "screw it, I'll remove it only when it affects me".). And then you realize an early Fleshbag Marauder being a whole lot more brutal these days when they're all rushing their Commanders out first while Grimgrin was still chilling in the Command zone.

But I can't really blame them though, from their perspective my decks are indeed expensive (I mean explaining I got my Judge Foil Doubling Season for less than 25 dollars over a decade ago doesn't make it cheaper for them now), even if you took the bling equation out. They see my deck as a having a "weak" commander supported by strong, but expensive 99s, and bluntly speaking, they're probably not wrong most of time (Karador and Grimgrin I would be inclined to agree, Animar though I say still breaks things today).

Also, they seem pretty amazed and terrified at the same time when I explain that I'm basically "retired" and my commander suite is largely consistent, but then again I remember (even if vaguely) being sort of the same when I first joined the format with the first precons, except I didn't really have a predecessor era before so I probably wasn't as terrified-by-example-standing-before-me like I assume I might be demonstrating now, back then the veterans were also playing with actual jank (still generally viewed as jank back then).

[Mookie]

Yeah, I noticed a lot of the newer commanders give of the vibe of "Just do the assigned things, you will generate (hand/field) advantage thanks to your commander". The cards in their 99 I would bluntly classify as "subpar" in my decks, but the commander does work so well that they usually easily recover from wipes. Heck in one game I had with Ryusei months ago I was constantly performing wipes with Ryusei and Nevinyrral's Disk so that the opposing board just doesn't threaten lethal in one cycle (and it was from sheer synergy, not combo).

Just looking at the new precons, I'll call out Anikthea, Hand of Erebos and Zhulodok, Void Gorger as two new 'do X, generate massive value' commanders (with Anikthea getting to do so as an ETB)... and not-so-coincidentally, I would also expect them to be the two most popular new commanders from the set. Commodore Guff, Leori, Sparktouched Hunter, and Narci, Fable Singer as a bit less immediately snowball-y, but still in the 'do X, generate incremental value' domain, and probably still a bad idea to leave unchecked. Sliver Gravemother and Rukarumel, Biologist look relatively tame in comparison.

...as always, I find myself nostalgia for the tuck rule. It felt like it encouraged decks to have a cohesive backup plan, instead of going all-in on their commander.


Anyway, Immortal Servitude is and always has been pretty mediocre. It's very difficult to run a high enough density of creatures at a specific point on the mana curve to justify its inclusion. Maybe if you're running Shadowborn Apostles or Lurrus of the Dream-Den? I suppose Persistent Petitioners self-mill could also work (particularly given you can also hit Thassa's Oracle). There might be some weird use case for it alongside a bunch of 3-drops like Eternal Witness and Priest of Gix? Otherwise I think this is outclassed by more flexible options like Living Death, Ascend from Avernus, and Storm of Souls.

[3drinks]

Wednesday, July 26th, 2023; Rith, Liberated Primeval

WotC's Random Dragon Creation Machine™ is at it again. Rith, the Awakener|inv is way better.

[Igzex]

While her token making is nowhere near as good as the invasion version there's still some really silly antics you can do with this card. I still kinda want to make a deck that uses cards like Forbidden Orchard and Hunted Dragon to give my opponents little things for me to burn with Spit Flame and Glorybringer. Add in a Repercussion for a real laugh. It sure ain't an efficient way to make tokens but it's pretty funny.