The Community Deck Build Project v4.0

[Dunharrow]

I think we would be happier if we had another 4ish artifact creatures. I would rather have Solemn Simulacrum than Skyshroud Claim for example.
Right now Golem and Tortured Existence both seem a bit low impact.
Sylvok Replica and Moriok Replica were also cards I was thinking about. I don't see any obvious cuts though.

I also want to say that I don't get why Field of Ruin is in this deck. It seems actively bad as it ramps 2 opponents. I would much rather have Buried Ruin or Phyrexia's Core in this deck.

[aliciaofthevast]

@Dunadain @kirkusjones
My rationale was that Karn doesn't help us in any way. It's just a hate card that does almost nothing for our deck.

Mindslaver is a gamewinning card, and while people hate it, at least it ends the game and doesn't just sit there as a hate piece. And at worst it's an artifact to chuck into the yard (unlike Karn).

But I guess people hate Mindslaver more than I thought.

It's probably not my place to say but....you know how actually nobody likes when the Simic deck casts time warp into temporal manipulation into etc? You know how miserable the table looks as they get to watch you solitaire? You know what's worse? Being forced to watch someone solitaire your own deck.

[Dunharrow]

@Dunadain @kirkusjones
My rationale was that Karn doesn't help us in any way. It's just a hate card that does almost nothing for our deck.

Mindslaver is a gamewinning card, and while people hate it, at least it ends the game and doesn't just sit there as a hate piece. And at worst it's an artifact to chuck into the yard (unlike Karn).

But I guess people hate Mindslaver more than I thought.

It's probably not my place to say but....you know how actually nobody likes when the Simic deck casts time warp into temporal manipulation into etc? You know how miserable the table looks as they get to watch you solitaire? You know what's worse? Being forced to watch someone solitaire your own deck.

I have seen very little mindslaver in commander. I think I once used Emrakul, the Promised End to take control of Marchesa 1.0 and cast a toxic deluge for lethal. I get why it can be unfun in the scenario you described, but most of the time I have seen these effects be a "murder your own dude, swing your dorks into big blockers, waste a fetch land", and occasionally I have seen a it turn into a one-sided wrath by making a player sac his whole board or something.
I don't see the 'playing solitaire with your won deck' thing happening that often, but again, I have not seen much of it and never thought it was that strong.

[Jemolk]

Mindslaver is absolutely miserable. Glad it didn't make it in. Karn the Great Creator seems a fine cut. Mycosynth Golem is great, though. It needs to stay. It'll make Armix reliably cost , makes most of our creatures free, and enables infinite loops with any two of Junk Diver, Myr Retriever, and Scrap Trawler once you add a repeatable sac outlet. Why in the world would you cut that?

Field of Ruin is also fantastic. People fixate on the fact that it puts two players up a land relative to you in a 4-player game if you actually have to use it, but so does Strip Mine, and nobody argues that it's a terrible card. So does Tec Edge, and no one argues it's unplayable. But when it puts them up lands on you by giving everyone a new land, rather than putting them up lands by leaving you and one other player down a land, suddenly it's a major problem? No, if a land is valuable enough to be worth hitting with your one Strip Mine activation, it's worth hitting with Field of Ruin.

[3drinks]

I found the deck count issue, there was a 37th land in there, likely from the High Market add. To fix it, I'm dropping Grim Backwoods as it's typically the weakest sac outlet given how much it is to hold up.

As there's been some contention against Field of Ruin, let's poise that discussion; some have suggested Phyrexia's Core in it's stead. Do you not regularly have lands that absolutely have to go in your typical games? Cause idk about you, but I'm not about to just let people continually untap with their Gaea's Cradle/Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx/Cabal Coffers among other things, allow people to leverage Volrath's Stronghold/Academy Ruins/Hall of Heliod's Generosity, or even pop the key sac outlet land they were relying on. Personally, I don't believe Phyrexia's Core is a strong enough effect to replace such a pivotal effect, but as there's contention...let's talk it through.

I also really liked the suggestions of Moriok Replica and Sylvok Replica a lot, and I'd like to see them make the cut. I propose the cuts here to be Welding Jar and Karn, the Great Creator since most do not seem to care for my desire to shut off other's treasures, and the Jar was the most lackadaisical yay with little fervor towards it.

Are we sure we all want Sad Bot to replace Skyshroud Claim? Yes it's an artifact but there's something to be said for Claim getting a GG rebate back upon it's resolution.

I'd also really, really like to have seen Eternal Witness|5dn end up in this list, and we all should be ashamed that not a single one of us even thought to include our BFF 2/1. I propose cutting Mind Stone (the weakest rock as it only provides c) for Witness.

I think I'd really enjoy seeing Saw in Half too, and I believe the proper cut to be Hope of Ghirapur which as I recall was also met with less enthusiastic yays.

Community Build-A-Deck v4.0

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commanders

1 Armix, Filigree Thrasher

1 Gilanra, Caller of Wirewood

Land (36)

1 Ash Barrens

1 Bala Ged Recovery

1 Command Tower

1 Darkmoss Bridge

1 Darksteel Citadel

1 Drownyard Temple

1 Field of Ruin

1 Geier Reach Sanitarium

1 Glimmervoid

1 Haunted Mire

1 High Market

1 Hissing Quagmire

1 Hive of the Eye Tyrant

1 Inventors' Fair

1 Llanowar Wastes

1 Malakir Rebirth

1 Necroblossom Snarl

1 Nurturing Peatland

1 Path of Ancestry

3 Snow-Covered Forest

5 Snow-Covered Swamp

1 Spire of Industry

1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire

1 Tectonic Edge

1 Temple of Malady

1 Tree of Tales

1 Twilight Mire

1 Vault of Whispers

1 Woodland Cemetery

1 Woodland Chasm

Ramp

1 Arcum's Astrolabe

1 Crop Rotation

1 Expedition Map

1 Sol Ring

1 Wayfarer's Bauble

1 Arcane Signet

1 Golgari Signet

1 Mind Stone

1 Nature's Lore

1 Talisman of Resilience

1 Three Visits

1 Skyshroud Claim

Enchantment

1 Tortured Existence

1 Viridian Revel

Artifact

1 Mishra's Bauble

1 Urza's Bauble

1 Welding Jar

1 Codex Shredder

1 Executioner's Capsule

1 Gerrard's Hourglass Pendant

1 Nihil Spellbomb

1 Soul-Guide Lantern

1 Cranial Plating

1 Dolmen Gate

1 Grinding Station

1 Nim Deathmantle

1 Strionic Resonator

1 Cloud Key

1 Nettlecyst

1 Whispersilk Cloak

1 Krark-Clan Ironworks

1 Trading Post

1 Salvaging Station

1 Spine of Ish Sah

Sorcery

1 Reanimate

Instant

1 Abrupt Decay

1 Assassin's Trophy

1 Golgari Charm

1 Beast Within

Planeswalker

1 Karn, the Great Creator

1 Ugin, the Ineffable

Creature

1 Disciple of the Vault

1 Hope of Ghirapur

1 Myr Retriever

1 Perilous Myr

1 Syndicate Trafficker

1 Glissa, the Traitor

1 Junk Diver

1 Scrap Trawler

1 Tireless Tracker

1 God-Eternal Bontu

1 Soul of New Phyrexia

1 Vengeful Pharaoh

1 Marionette Master

1 Noxious Gearhulk

1 Steel Hellkite

1 Wurmcoil Engine

1 Meteor Golem

1 Myr Battlesphere

1 Shadowgrange Archfiend

1 Metalwork Colossus

1 Mycosynth Golem

Approximate Total Cost:

[RxPhantom]

I like the replicas, too. I'd like to cut Viridian Revel. This a dead card without opposing treasure strategies, and while some of us complain about their ubiquity, they're actually not ubiquitous. Arcum's Astrolabe could go too.

[Jemolk]

Astrolabe is pretty low impact, for sure. At 36 lands, having some extra color fixing and a cantrip is nice, but I'm still not convinced that it's a particularly good value proposition in terms of just the card slot. It is an artifact, which means synergy, so I'm also perfectly happy to keep it. Way lower on the totem pole of rocks than Mind Stone, though, I'd say. If we're even talking about cutting rocks, Astrolabe should probably be the first to go.

E-Wit is really good and a borderline auto-include in just about any green deck... which is exactly my problem with the card. It's just generic goodstuff in this deck. I'd rather any synergy piece over that, myself.

As for Field of Ruin, if you're not playing targeted LD against me, I can guarantee you'll regret it sooner or later. It might be an infinite recursion engine on a land a la Volrath's Stronghold, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, or Emeria the Sky Ruin, or it might be my three copies of Maze of Ith thanks to Vesuva and Thespian's Stage, or it might be a Valakut in a mono-red deck, but regardless, you can almost count on there being some utility land that I lean on as an overbearing value engine over the course of a long game in the vast majority of my decks. I highly recommend utility lands like that to other people, as well as ways of dealing with them. And as I said above, Field is no worse than Strip Mine in terms of putting you down mana relative to the rest of the table when you use it.

[Dunharrow]

Field of Ruin can stay, but I still say that phyrexia's core is nice to have with Expedition Map in there. Are we starved for fixing in this deck? Maybe the cut should be Hissing Quagmire

I would yay cutting Karn and Jar (I accidentally put forth that suggestion it wasn't meant to be my nomination lol, I was just brainstorming).
I would yay cutting viridian revel. and cut claim.

I would say to keep Hope of Ghirapur. Are we really wanting to cut creatures?

I wanted to nominate Ewit many times but just kept seeing Codex Shredder as better. I would be in favour of playing it and the two replicas. Yay sad robot for sure.

I would rather cut mind stone than astrolabe I think. It's tough though. Can someone work out our likelihood of having snow mana in the first couple turns? That's my biggest fear with astrolabe. It's not like we have 8 fetches in this deck.

Saw in Half is cool. It gets better if we get these creatures in.

I have never played any of the stations - but isn't Blasting Station needed to make a combo?

[Dunadain]

I've always prefered Ghost Quarter and Strip Mine to Field of Ruin but the effect itself is handy, you really should run at least one of them in most decks.

[3drinks]

All you need is one basic land or the snow dual and you have an astrolabe. Then it replaces itself and fixes your colours. Poof, that's it, no more. That's so much stronger than a c rock. I will never, ever understand why there's such a heavy rally against it other than some hipster desire to go against the grain "look at me, I'm cool because I don't do what everyone else does". Sometimes there's merit there obviously, but other times you just make it harder on yourself. If WotC wants to give a free card to colour fix, fine, I'll take the free fixing.

[Dunadain]

All you need is one basic land or the snow dual and you have an astrolabe. Then it replaces itself and fixes your colours. Poof, that's it, no more. That's so much stronger than a c rock. I will never, ever understand why there's such a heavy rally against it other than some hipster desire to go against the grain "look at me, I'm cool because I don't do what everyone else does". Sometimes there's merit there obviously, but other times you just make it harder on yourself. If WotC wants to give a free card to colour fix, fine, I'll take the free fixing.

Agreed, Astrolabe is banned everywhere else for a reason

[kirkusjones]

I'm curious, how many of the anti-astrolabers have played with it? Whether in EDH or another constructed format?

[Dunharrow]

I am not questioning how good it is. I am questioning how 9 snow sources can reliably cast it in the early game, which is when we need the fixing.
Matters less here since I guess we can just pitch it to our general.
So ya, I guess I vote to cut mind stone.

[Crazy Monkey]

I have never actually played Arcum's Astrolabe. I think of the decks so far in this series, it has made the most sense here.

On the cuts/adds I do like Eternal Witness+Saw in Half and the replicas. I could be on board with cuts like Viridian Revel and Karn, the Great Creator for one of those pairs. I guess Welding Jar is on the block, especially if it was an unintended nomination. I'm not sure any other cards quite stick out to me in the same way.

Honestly, astrolabe is almost a thematic inclusion here in my opinion.

[Jemolk]

I've played with Astrolabe, though only in my Snow deck. I've also abused the heck out of its cousin, Prophetic Prism, in Pauper 5c Tron, though, which is perhaps the most obnoxious control deck to exist this side of Lantern Control in Modern. Its entire premise was (as of my old build) bouncing all your permanents with either Capsize or a Ghostly Flicker combo with Dinrova Horror. That deck is insanely abusive, and is one of the major reasons Astrolabe needed banning in Pauper. But we're not filtering Urza's Tower mana into blue so we can spam Capsize. We're not abusing it to build a deck that has a ton of colorless lands and yet plays all 5 colors without issue. Here, it's just a one-off cantrip and color fixing, which is fine, I guess, but not all that impressive. A card being broken somewhere else doesn't necessarily mean it's even all that good here.

I'm not saying we need to cut it, mind. What I'm saying is that it's extremely low impact, and I don't believe for a moment it will play a decisive role in games often enough that it's better to keep it and cut Mind Stone than the reverse.

[RxPhantom]

All you need is one basic land or the snow dual and you have an astrolabe. Then it replaces itself and fixes your colours. Poof, that's it, no more. That's so much stronger than a c rock. I will never, ever understand why there's such a heavy rally against it other than some hipster desire to go against the grain "look at me, I'm cool because I don't do what everyone else does". Sometimes there's merit there obviously, but other times you just make it harder on yourself. If WotC wants to give a free card to colour fix, fine, I'll take the free fixing.

I'm always amazed at how personally you take it, and how %$#% you get when anyone politely disagrees with you on it. And what an odd take. We're hipsters if we don't think Arcum's Astrolabe is amazing? We're not talking about Sol Ring here.

Agreed, Astrolabe is banned everywhere else for a reason

This isn't the most ironclad argument. Every problematic 1v1 card doesn't necessarily scale proportionally to multiplayer. Ponder doesn't have to go in every blue deck. Gitaxian Probe isn't an auto-include.

[3drinks]

Based on the last day or two this is what I've scrapped together as the group consensus final touches. I'm going to prep the v5.0 thread.

skyshroud claim --> sad bot
welding jar --> sylvok rep
karn, the great creator --> moriok rep
viridian revel --> e-wit
hissing quagmire --> phyrexia's core

Community Build-A-Deck v4.0

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commanders

1 Armix, Filigree Thrasher

1 Gilanra, Caller of Wirewood

Land (36)

1 Ash Barrens

1 Bala Ged Recovery

1 Command Tower

1 Darkmoss Bridge

1 Darksteel Citadel

1 Drownyard Temple

1 Field of Ruin

1 Geier Reach Sanitarium

1 Glimmervoid

1 Haunted Mire

1 High Market

1 Hive of the Eye Tyrant

1 Inventors' Fair

1 Llanowar Wastes

1 Malakir Rebirth

1 Necroblossom Snarl

1 Nurturing Peatland

1 Path of Ancestry

1 Phyrexia's Core

3 Snow-Covered Forest

5 Snow-Covered Swamp

1 Spire of Industry

1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire

1 Tectonic Edge

1 Temple of Malady

1 Tree of Tales

1 Twilight Mire

1 Vault of Whispers

1 Woodland Cemetery

1 Woodland Chasm

Ramp

1 Arcum's Astrolabe

1 Crop Rotation

1 Expedition Map

1 Sol Ring

1 Wayfarer's Bauble

1 Arcane Signet

1 Golgari Signet

1 Mind Stone

1 Nature's Lore

1 Talisman of Resilience

1 Three Visits

Enchantment

1 Tortured Existence

Artifact

1 Mishra's Bauble

1 Urza's Bauble

1 Codex Shredder

1 Executioner's Capsule

1 Gerrard's Hourglass Pendant

1 Nihil Spellbomb

1 Soul-Guide Lantern

1 Cranial Plating

1 Dolmen Gate

1 Grinding Station

1 Nim Deathmantle

1 Strionic Resonator

1 Cloud Key

1 Moriok Replica

1 Nettlecyst

1 Sylvok Replica

1 Whispersilk Cloak

1 Krark-Clan Ironworks

1 Solemn Simulacrum

1 Trading Post

1 Salvaging Station

1 Spine of Ish Sah

Sorcery

1 Reanimate

Instant

1 Abrupt Decay

1 Assassin's Trophy

1 Golgari Charm

1 Beast Within

Planeswalker

1 Ugin, the Ineffable

Creature

1 Disciple of the Vault

1 Hope of Ghirapur

1 Myr Retriever

1 Perilous Myr

1 Syndicate Trafficker

1 Eternal Witness

1 Glissa, the Traitor

1 Junk Diver

1 Scrap Trawler

1 Tireless Tracker

1 God-Eternal Bontu

1 Soul of New Phyrexia

1 Vengeful Pharaoh

1 Marionette Master

1 Noxious Gearhulk

1 Steel Hellkite

1 Wurmcoil Engine

1 Meteor Golem

1 Myr Battlesphere

1 Shadowgrange Archfiend

1 Metalwork Colossus

1 Mycosynth Golem

Approximate Total Cost:

This isn't the most ironclad argument. Every problematic 1v1 card doesn't necessarily scale proportionally to multiplayer. Ponder doesn't have to go in every blue deck. Gitaxian Probe isn't an auto-include.

FWIW, I'd earnestly love to see a xu deck that doesn't want a Ponder|tsr or Gitaxian Probe effect. I do not think it exists but I'd be happy to be proven wrong to this end. I struggle to wrap my head around not playing these cards that smooth your early game and setup the latre end and yeah maybe that's something I could work on.

[Jemolk]

This isn't the most ironclad argument. Every problematic 1v1 card doesn't necessarily scale proportionally to multiplayer. Ponder doesn't have to go in every blue deck. Gitaxian Probe isn't an auto-include.

FWIW, I'd earnestly love to see a xu deck that doesn't want a Ponder|tsr or Gitaxian Probe effect. I do not think it exists but I'd be happy to be proven wrong to this end. I struggle to wrap my head around not playing these cards that smooth your early game and setup the latre end and yeah maybe that's something I could work on.

Is every blue deck storm now?

I don't think I've ever played a commander deck that wants Git Probe. Its actual effect has some minor value if you're trying to combo, but for the most part, its function is just to reduce the number of cards in your list by one. That's not something I basically ever want to do. I struggle with cuts enough as it is. I don't need a card whose only real effect is to force me to cut an extra card.

As for Ponder, it's fine in spellslinger, where it has synergies, or in a deck that wants to manipulate what's on top of your library. However, in a format where you're having to match your resources against those of three other players, some minor filtering on a cantrip just doesn't seem worth a card. Sure, it helps you set up faster, but setting up fast can be a liability in multiplayer. I generally prefer playing the long game and laying low for most of the early game. Ponder just isn't very helpful for that sort of use-case. Something like Whispers of the Muse is infinitely better as a one-mana cantrip for the overwhelming majority of my decks that would consider either.

[Dunadain]

Git proobe and ponder are way off topic, lmao, but i would say the majority of blue edhdecks would benefit from them.

I don't take it personally that people want to cut astrolabe over mindstone, its a fair comparison, i just wanted to weigh in that i thought astrolabe was better than mindstone.

[3drinks]

I think I'm starting to realize I over-value the cantrip mechanic and incremental advantage more than, at the very least, the high majority of participants in this game.

looks at Dusk Legion Zealot chilling in Alesha because it's a b Elvish Visionary. Card has been there for years, since it debuted....... Who needs bombs, just let me draw cards, hit my land drops, and cycle through my deck.

[aliciaofthevast]

This was certainly a wild ride! I wonder what we're gonna do in the next one.