Kaervek's War Crimes

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 weeks ago

I really like how this commander works it gives me some serious Toshiro Umezawa vibes but it also lets me cast creatures at instant speed. The fact that Blood Artist triggers a crime almost immediately cemented me that I was going to build it as aristocrats.

I am not really sure if my ramp and or draw is where I need it but with most of my projects I just get to a starting point where I want to see it in action before I make adjustments. My ramp plan is mostly in the few high performing mana lands rather than in ramp card count.

Anyways, if anyone has any ideas let me know. I did get some rudimentary orders in for this deck but I can always work towards getting my hands on more things.

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Last edited by ISBPathfinder 2 days ago, edited 2 times in total.
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Tryno
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Post by Tryno » 3 weeks ago

Consider the following cards.
Crypt Incursion - A bajillion life gain you can use twice, and use to commit crimes
Murderous Rider // Swift End - Crime and a creature
V.A.T.S. - Good hard removal for big threats, value creatures, and tokens
Nihil Spellbomb - Crime and draw
Beseech the Queen - Expedition map 2.0
Sling-Gang Lieutenant - This seems to fit the whole crime and aristocrats very well.

Edit:
You also don't have very many sac outlets.

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Sidar Jabari


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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 weeks ago

Tryno wrote:
3 weeks ago
Consider the following cards.
Crypt Incursion - A bajillion life gain you can use twice, and use to commit crimes
Murderous Rider // Swift End - Crime and a creature
V.A.T.S. - Good hard removal for big threats, value creatures, and tokens
Nihil Spellbomb - Crime and draw
Beseech the Queen - Expedition map 2.0
Sling-Gang Lieutenant - This seems to fit the whole crime and aristocrats very well.

Edit:
You also don't have very many sac outlets.
  • Crypt Incursion - I have too much graveyard hate in the deck already so I don't really anticipate graveyards to build up all that much with my build as it stands. Most of the cards I added were to trigger crime but I currently have 7 graveyard hate effects in my deck largely for repeatable crimes or cheap cantrip black card crimes that can themselves be recurred.
  • Murderous Rider // Swift End - I don't like the creature form and when the creature dies he shuffles in which isn't too useful for me. Given all of this I would more likely just run an actual instant version but I don't really feel like I need target planeswalker kill.
  • V.A.T.S - I don't know that I really value the split second nature of this all that much. It is true that it can chain kill tokens I just haven't encountered that many token decks in my current meta. Paying four mana for removal is a bit heavy for my liking.
  • Nihil Spellbomb - I guess my concern is that I just have soooo much grave hate in the deck already and a lot of it is repeatable or black (recursionable with commander). Spellbomb is good grave hate but its colorless and one shot of crime based. I guess I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have some one drop target cantrip like say Aphotic Wisps / Nighthaze over this card as its a cheaper crime and its black. I just feel like I have so much grave hate density already that I don't know that a colorless card that is one shot is really that impressive due to this. I did think about maybe Withered Wretch possibly for something similar to this just for the repeat crime potential but I am also sort of concerned about what could happen if someone were to clone / steal it from me.
  • Beseech the Queen - Maybe. I opted for Expedition Map because it curved into my commander fairly well where as Beseech overlaps with commander cost but the reusability of black spells is appealing. I could see myself coming back for it but I also feel like I am already somewhat heavy on tutors at three black unconditional ones.
  • Sling-Gang Lieutenant - yea it seems decent. I really want to see this deck in action though because if I lack and need more crime triggers then I will need to readjust some but if I don't need more crime triggers then instead of something like this I would rather have Sengir Autocrat for the additional token gen. For some reason thinking about this card has me realizing that I probably don't have the spell count needed for Sedgemoor Witch to really work even with flashing back spells I should probably readjust her to a different token maker. I will give it some thought I just don't know that the sling-gang is where I want and need to be yet without playing this.
  • Sac Outlets - Hard to say I have 5 repeatable free sac outlets and a few more that are tap one shot sacs. I was trying to stick to black creatures rather than resort to Ashnod's Altar / Phyrexian Altar but I guess I can consider them or go to something lesser like an indestructible on sac three drop. I did see that the upcoming MH3 has Warren Soultrader which I likely want for this deck so I will probably try to pick up one of those when it releases next month.



Thanks for the suggestions. Somehow your suggestions got me thinking about totally unrelated cards like Aphotic Wisps / Nighthaze which I actually think might have some legs to them being some reusable cantrip / crime enablers for this commander. Your comment on sac outlets is probably correct I just don't know how many of them I really want to commit to and how far down the rabbet hole I am willing to go.

I need to cut Sedgemoor Witch too. Probably for another sac outlet. I will give it some thought.
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Post by Ruiner » 2 weeks ago

I'd probably take a look at including Hex Parasite. It is in general fairly useful, but for this deck it's a cheap easily repeatable crime source.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 weeks ago

Ruiner wrote:
2 weeks ago
I'd probably take a look at including Hex Parasite. It is in general fairly useful, but for this deck it's a cheap easily repeatable crime source.
Hex Parasite - Its something that's a bit of a meta call in my opinion as to how relevant the hate of it is. I do think it does good work against planeswalkers and if for some reason you see a lot of decks with counters its good against that too but I would generally say both of those things tend to be not very meta as far as commander goes as a whole. He does do decent as far as triggering crimes but I have a lot of crime triggers already in the deck and I don't know yet how much of a problem crime triggers are or aren't for me yet. Its also unfortunate that its not a black creature based on the commander's ability to rez which is another strike against it for me.

For the time being I am waiting to get some testing in before I see how my crime triggers are. I feel like I am good but I don't have any testing to actually prove that so I am going in blind and reacting to it for now.



Working on putting the list together and I came up with some changes I wanted to make.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Braids, Arisen NightmareEntomb braids is very very reasonable and I might bring it back but I wanted to make a few changes and get Entomb in here. I have three REALLY strong recursion creatures in this deck and I think its worth having a little more consistency getting it.
  • Sedgemoor WitchDictate of Erebos I realized I wasn't spellslinging quite as much as I wanted to be for adding the witch. Dictate seems like really powerful removal and the fact that my commander can recur it just excites me.
  • Spitting DilophosaurusSanguinary Priest the dino seemed ok but the priest fits this concept way stronger. It opens me up to more consistent triggers with what this deck should be doing and opening me up for more crime triggers overall I suspect.
  • Gixian PuppeteerTormod, the Desecrator I have a lot of recursion to my deck already and wile I think this puppeteer is sweet and it could recur a bunch of stuff my commander can already do that for me. Tormod seems to play well with my commander too and give me a bunch of chaff tokens to sac.
  • Crook of CondemnationUnlicensed Hearse I think this is just going to save me mana in my triggers. Its true that it takes away a full grave clear option but I value the repeat use elements of these cards more for the crime triggers.
  • Mesmeric OrbBitterthorn, Nissa's Animus the orb probably works but I don't like how its slow to work and my artifacts are the element of my deck I have the least synergy with. I like that bitterhorn comes with a disposable token I can use and more lands is big with the coffer effects.
  • Umezawa's JitteAphotic Wisps going away from a high priority target removal artifact and getting a cheap targeting cantrip instead. I want cheap crime cantrips so lets roll with that.
  • Liliana's TriumphSoul Shatter I think this is a better effect in most cases. It sucks that neither effect triggers crime but I like what they do.
  • Plumb the ForbiddenPromise of Aclazotz both are a little awkward as sac outlets but I like populating tokens of real cards. The idea of populating the commander's token generated cards like possibly a blood artist token or something would be really sweet. I will at least try it out.
  • 1 SwampWarren Soultrader I think my land count is a little high. Its a little odd as double casting everything has me a little thrown off as to how much card draw I actually need but I think I can trim into my land count. For now I will probably field something like Yahenni, Undying Partisan until it comes out but I plan to test out the Warren.
  • 1 SwampPhyrexian Tower I probably want to run the tower even though its a one shot per turn sac.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 6 days ago

In short I played two games with this deck and it was fun but I for the life of me didn't have enough crime triggers. I do like the basis of what I am doing I just needed to draw more cards and have more access to crime than I did. I had a good game that should have been a win for me if only I had more draw or more access to crime triggers where I was holding my opponents at bay via a Grave Pact which sadly got Chaos Warped or I would have kept going with it. I like what I have seen so far I just need to make a few tweaks.

I will try to come up with the deck changes in a few days after sitting on it.
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Post by capitacommunist » 6 days ago

Just some thoughts from my Gisa the Hellraiser deck: Hope this helps!

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Post by Dunadain » 5 days ago

As someone that loves to cram utility into land slots, there's a bunch of lands that can commit crimes, though it's usually a pretty heft mana investment.

Strip Mine and clones (Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, Demolition Field etc.) are decent cards already, and the option to commit a crime in a pinch is probably handy.

Rishadan Port is a funny card, but it commits a crime for cheap.

Shizo, Death's Storehouse seems great
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 days ago

capitacommunist wrote:
6 days ago
Just some thoughts from my Gisa the Hellraiser deck: Hope this helps!
It both is and isn't budget. If I really wanted a Candelabra of Tawnos, I could buy one but realistically I don't feel like spending that kind of money on a single piece of cardboard. I haven't ever spent more than $300 for any card including my Bazaar. I think Candelabra is an ok card but its also a card I would play extremely scarcely just in that it really only pairs with big mana making lands like coffers and cradle and I don't build that many decks with those cards to justify that purchase. To be fair, I am not even convinced that Bazaar fits here but I own one and I love trying it out.

Crime Enablers - I am going to boost my count a little but I really don't have enough testing in to say that I am having an issue with my crime enablers offhand. I suspect that my deck was a bit clumpy and if anything I maybe could have used a little more draw as a whole. I thought that with the commander's recast stuff I would be swimming in spellcasting but too often I couldn't jumpstart the crime chain which is odd but again I felt like I drew a bunch of lands and weird creatures who couldn't trigger crime in those two games. I have a lot of crime triggering effects that weren't seen in those two games so its probably me jumping to conclusions but I will increase my count a little to see.

Artifacts in general are something I am trying to downplay since I have synergy with recasting black cards. I made some exceptions especially for crime committing artifacts that can cantrip but I don't think I want to go so deep as to running the untappers.

Reanimation - The hard part with reanimation is just how many different strategies there are these days and how few decks are running generic goodstuff ETB like creatures. You get equipment decks, aura decks, token decks, spellslinger decks, tribal decks. I have had a lot less success trying to rez opponents creatures just in that their creatures are often weird when you don't have their commander. Its cool that they could trigger crimes and be reused so maybe? I just know that historically of late I have had a hard time with opponents creatures outside of a few standouts like assuming a red deck might have Dockside Extortionist offhand.

Necropotence? Palantír of Orthanc - I.... why the %$#% don't I have necro..... well I guess we fix that now. Palantir I didn't think about because I was so focused on trying to cull artifacts but its cheap enough, triggers soon after play, and the mill is useful. Yea I am game.
Dunadain wrote:
5 days ago
As someone that loves to cram utility into land slots, there's a bunch of lands that can commit crimes, though it's usually a pretty heft mana investment.

Strip Mine and clones (Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, Demolition Field etc.) are decent cards already, and the option to commit a crime in a pinch is probably handy.

Rishadan Port is a funny card, but it commits a crime for cheap.

Shizo, Death's Storehouse seems great
The land slot utility is a tough call. I am not against having a little utility but the utility effects also hurt the coffer basic consistency. This deck is also very spell chaining black mana intensive so colorless mana can hurt when trying to multi cast spells with nothing but black pips to them. I tend to play my mono black decks with a little less land utility to them to push coffers to working a little harder and sooner.

Strip Mines - I will probably pass for now just because my wincon is aristocrats rather than voltron. I tend to try to get to a few strip mine effects when running voltron just in case a maze effect is opposing me and in general I try to run at least one but I am abusing a lot of big mana lands in this deck myself that encourage me to be greedy with my landbase.

Rishadan Port - mayyyybe I am not as excited about the utility of what it does though I would rather see utility like Tower of the Magistrate which I might add as a way of taking out equipment especially pro black swords or indestructible equips.

Shizo, Death's Storehouse - Its fine. I don't plan on attacking with my commander so its mostly a land that taps for black, enters untapped, and has a crime option that has a slight downside of not being an actual swamp for the sake of coffers. I can probably add it and see how it performs.




DECK CHANGES:
  • Mirkwood BatsPalantír of Orthanc Mirkwood was decent but the fact that it only hits opponents, gives no life back, and doesn't trigger crime were all kind of problems for me. It was good offensively but not so good in keeping me going. I wanted to make more room for some draw and Palantir being sort of mill, crime triggering, and sort of draw all sound good to me.
  • Wayfarer's BaubleJet Medallion I do think that wayfarer's is fine in a coffers deck but I am multi casting enough that I wanted the medallion more. Bauble isn't that impressive of ramp until and unless you also find a coffers effect where as medallion has more stand alone value for me.
  • Promise of AclazotzThe One Ring promise felt like a card that could be amazing if I was fully set up but its performance when I was like half setup wasn't amazing. I needed more draw and I originally thought I would be fine without one ring but damn its sooo good. I just can't help myself. Why isn't this dang card banned yet?
  • Sheoldred's EdictDeadly Rollick swapping some removal around. Rollick triggers a crime and its honestly really good removal so long as opponents don't have hexproof.
  • Word of CommandNecropotence I do love word of command and I got to cast it against someone who panicked and burned their turn which was funny. I need some more draw though so in comes necro.
  • VesuvaTower of the Magistrate vesuva has the liability of needing to come after a coffers land is in play and being somewhat of a liability before that time. Tower gives me a crime option that plays well to black's removal suite in that it can strip protections and indestructible.
  • 1 SwampShizo, Death's Storehouse still a land entering untapped that provides black and can commit crimes. It is a small ding to the coffers consistency but I am willing to test it.
Tinybones, the Pickpocket is on a close watchlist for now. I came close to cutting him but I just didn't have anything else I was really psyched to add. Its true that I could have a Withered Wretch instead I just paid a bit of money for him to cut him so soon. So I guess this is me being a bit stubborn because of the money I spent on him so I am going to test him a little longer. Some of my annoyance with him was topdecking him when I didn't have enough draw in the deck which hopefully I just addressed with three strong draw engines being added and a few more ways to commit crime.
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Post by Dunadain » 2 days ago

I've never ever seen Tower of the Magistrate, lol
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 days ago

Dunadain wrote:
2 days ago
I've never ever seen Tower of the Magistrate, lol
Yea its not a highly played land but it is really fun to jack with equipment decks by giving their creatures pro artifacts and watching them all fall off. That tends to be about the only use for it but that isn't to say nobody could every swing a Wurmcoil Engine at you but colorless creatures attacking tends to be fairly rare in this format these days.
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Post by Vertierer » 1 day ago

What about OG Urborg? It taps for b and can commit a crime.
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