Need to build CONTROL

[Gashnaw]

So Yesterday i had a pretty good "Party" In I had two friends over, then one of the two left and another friends arrived we are also all second dose.

Anyway playing EDH i have 1 deck currently (Money issues left me to stop planning new decks as I go overboard.) Be I got roflstombed by Queen Marchesa and Empress Galina

So I need to build a control deck, one that can keep these cards under control. Both are control themselves. (I fi had the deck lists i would post them)
I was getting irritated by every single one of my dragons being killed or being countered. Board wipes killing off my dragons and Mana ramp. (I had Urza's Incubator, Arcane Signet, Sol ring, Gilded Lotus and Commander's Sphere)
I went from being able to cast spells to not being able to cast anything, or when i did it would get countered.

Now, I know my deck can win I did, but it required the Marches player to be mana screwed. Sadly I cannot count on that to be a win con. I need something a little stronger for when he pull out his better decks. (And course when i began to get rolling it was 2v1, but when he got going it was 1v0 since neither of his opponents were able to do anything, we were lucky to have a board presence at all.)

So yeah, I want something that can deal with control being it a control deck of my own or something that ousts control decks. I was tempted to do Azami again, but i would have to siphon through all my cards to find the pieces and I am not sure if i still have them all. I could rebuild Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain. Which allowed me to often go off turn 3 or 4. But that was too oppressive. So want something different. (I may still build azami (Wizard tribal and combo) but still up in the air.

So I need help. (Not looking for top tier, and not looking for oppressive decks. I rather my opponents still get to play)


EDIT: Bonus points of the commander is a dragon, because, I like dragons.
My dragon deck list, in case it helps

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https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nest-of ... 1627828253

[PrimevalCommander]

You can take a look at Dragonlord Ojutai control. Commander is card advantage + Tangible threat with built-in protection all in one. Check out the short thread where many point to him being a good control commander, who is also a DRAGON! I am still working on a build, but I tell you Ojutai does quite well in combat with a splash of equipment to boost his power or provide some protection. The damage trigger keeps you digging for answers and throw in some untap or vigilance effects just in case.

Dragonlord Ojutai Thread

[pokken]

I'd suggest running anti-control hate in your dragons deck. Control doesn't necessarily beat control especially on a budget

What your dragon deck probably wants is:
--a few more instant speed hosers (things like Heroic Intervention and Eerie Interlude) - try to get your instant count up to 10-ish so you're reliably going to have something to do in response to their countermagic.

--Cavern of Souls is great. Maybe add a few ways to tutor for it? Crop Rotation / Expedition Map tend to be very good in dragon decks since you have a variety of cool tribal lands

--consider a Life from the Loam / Tranquil Thicket package. Loam + Haven of the Spirit Dragon can go way over the top of control decks pretty easily. Volrath's Stronghold would be ideal but it's expensive.

--consider a few more enginey type cards that grind out advantage over control decks.

---

That said, beating control decks with Dragons is less about card selection and more about play patterns. You need to slow roll and not overcommit to the board and make sure you sandbag bombs and ways to recover from wipes as much as you can.

Always remember to hit them first in combat if you can and make them feel the pressure before you cast spells (unless you're better off trying to take advantage of haste or whatever).

Having a few tutors for stuff like Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund to beat theft effects is another good solid plan -

Empress Galina is a hard one. So many dragons are legends. I'd consider playing a Homeward Path if you can fit it in the manabase, it's sticky though with 5c. You may want to consider some cards like Green Sun's Zenith and Chord of Calling and maybe even Birthing Pod that can disguise what dudes you're going for to screw with countermagic. Neoform can also be pretty good for dragons especially with the reanimation effects.

[Sinis]

Whenever someone mentions that all their creatures get countered, my immediate go-to is Surrak Dragonclaw as a general. Between Flash and Can't be Countered, and being in blue, your opponents won't be able to deal with it or any other creatures you play.

As for dealing with removal, playing Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots can be helpful (maybe Tribute Mage to search them up, too?).

I think what @pokken said was right, though; putting pressure on your opponent having a responsible curve and forcing answers to be spent less efficiently are definitely things to do.

[Gashnaw]

I'd suggest running anti-control hate in your dragons deck. Control doesn't necessarily beat control especially on a budget

What your dragon deck probably wants is:
--a few more instant speed hosers (things like Heroic Intervention and Eerie Interlude) - try to get your instant count up to 10-ish so you're reliably going to have something to do in response to their countermagic.

--Cavern of Souls is great. Maybe add a few ways to tutor for it? Crop Rotation / Expedition Map tend to be very good in dragon decks since you have a variety of cool tribal lands

--consider a Life from the Loam / Tranquil Thicket package. Loam + Haven of the Spirit Dragon can go way over the top of control decks pretty easily. Volrath's Stronghold would be ideal but it's expensive.

--consider a few more enginey type cards that grind out advantage over control decks.

---

That said, beating control decks with Dragons is less about card selection and more about play patterns. You need to slow roll and not overcommit to the board and make sure you sandbag bombs and ways to recover from wipes as much as you can.

Always remember to hit them first in combat if you can and make them feel the pressure before you cast spells (unless you're better off trying to take advantage of haste or whatever).

Having a few tutors for stuff like Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund to beat theft effects is another good solid plan -

Empress Galina is a hard one. So many dragons are legends. I'd consider playing a Homeward Path if you can fit it in the manabase, it's sticky though with 5c. You may want to consider some cards like Green Sun's Zenith and Chord of Calling and maybe even Birthing Pod that can disguise what dudes you're going for to screw with countermagic. Neoform can also be pretty good for dragons especially with the reanimation effects.

-In terms of Gaina That is true, in 31 creatures i have 28 that are dragons and 22 that are legendary. Homeward path would be smart but it really only matter in theft. (And my opponent briberyed Karrthus.)

-Heroic intervention and Eerie interlude are good ideas. I will definitely look into that, and since crop rotation is an instant that too is appealing. Just need to figure what to take out.

-yeah stronghold is a little too much in terms of cash. I can afford it (Just have to sell my Power Artifact. but i really don't want to do that)

-Not sue about Life from the Loam It may be due to being hardwire to see dredge and thing that i always need to play dredge costs. I have enough trouble cutting cards as is, Then just willingly tossing them into the graveyard...

So if i can reasonably cut 3 cards for interlude, intervention and rotation that may be the most helpful. Not seeing it boost my deck to god tier but at least i have some answer to board wipes which have been the biggest issue. (Teferi's protection has been my answer to that which is 1/99)

[ISBPathfinder]

Chromium, the Mutable is incredibly good as a control v control commander. He kills in three shots and is incredibly hard for most control decks to interact with. Most of the time their tricks will just one for one some card out of your hand and sort of fog your attack. The best part is he doesn't need a lot of specific tools built around him so even on a budget I think he can be pulled off very reasonably.

If you want to kill a little faster throw in some extra turns. The downside is they can be countered but just keep to the cheaper ones and it won't be the end of the world. Add some draw and control effects for your deck and you should be good to go.

[pokken]

The downside is they can be countered but just keep to the cheaper ones and it won't be the end of the world. Add some draw and control effects for your deck and you should be good to go.

With dragons, extra attack steps or tutoring for dragons that give extra attack steps is usually going to be more efficient than extra turns. Which reminds me of a glaring missing dragon in the decklist which is Scourge of the Throne

[Gashnaw]

Chromium, the Mutable is incredibly good as a control v control commander. He kills in three shots and is incredibly hard for most control decks to interact with. Most of the time their tricks will just one for one some card out of your hand and sort of fog your attack. The best part is he doesn't need a lot of specific tools built around him so even on a budget I think he can be pulled off very reasonably.

If you want to kill a little faster throw in some extra turns. The downside is they can be countered but just keep to the cheaper ones and it won't be the end of the world. Add some draw and control effects for your deck and you should be good to go.

I have nexus of fate. I would also run hellkite charger if it was not for the fact that ne of my friend plays Linvala. I tune my deck to have no activated abilities for that one reason. It is also nice to have have to activate costs, but still.

[ISBPathfinder]

Chromium, the Mutable is incredibly good as a control v control commander. He kills in three shots and is incredibly hard for most control decks to interact with. Most of the time their tricks will just one for one some card out of your hand and sort of fog your attack. The best part is he doesn't need a lot of specific tools built around him so even on a budget I think he can be pulled off very reasonably.

If you want to kill a little faster throw in some extra turns. The downside is they can be countered but just keep to the cheaper ones and it won't be the end of the world. Add some draw and control effects for your deck and you should be good to go.

I have nexus of fate. I would also run hellkite charger if it was not for the fact that ne of my friend plays Linvala. I tune my deck to have no activated abilities for that one reason. It is also nice to have have to activate costs, but still.

Linvala can be a pain but it also doesn't necessarily disable Chromium. Also as a fun trick since you can be a control deck as well if someone tries to screw with your commander you could respond by killing Linvala and then activating to protect him.

Chromium's point is more about a being a bit evasive stick with flash / uncounterable though. Linvala does disable him some but it doesn't make up for the fact that you are in better colors with a bigger stick of a commander. If Linvala is just in the 99 then he won't always have it but if its his commander he is giving up good colors and mono white is a lot trickier to keep up with a 3 color deck with. If its his commander just lean into having better access to draw with still good control colors to bully him into the mid and late game. Your commander is more relevant stat wise on its own and you have better colors to do a long grind than a mono white would have.

[Ruiner]

If you really want a control deck, I'm going to second the suggestion for Chromium, the Mutable. It's in perfect control colors, giving you access to all of the best removal, counterspells, hatebears, and other great control pieces.

Like @ISBPathfinder said, it's a great finisher with three hits max to kill. I'm fond of Duelist's Heritage to speed that up if possible. Flash and uncounterable means you've got pseudo haste, or a "surprise" 7/7 flying blocker when needed. Chromium being the primary win condition, and not really needing any extra pieces, means you have more room for interactive elements.

Chromium is pretty difficult to eliminate without a board wipe. Cards like Linvala, Keeper of Silence and Cursed Totem interfere with that somewhat but Esper is the color combination that will definitely be able to find answers to those so I really wouldn't worry too much. You should already have ways to answer creatures and artifacts in any control oriented deck hopefully.

If you are interested in a starting point for ideas, check out my list (link on my signature). I'm currently adjusting the list and will post an update in the next few days to reflect some new changes. It's a bit unconventional with a number of elements for fun with messing with the combat step to redirect attackers or damage, but you could easily drop that for actual counterspells that you might need. I have some pricey cards in there but none are absolutely necessary, it could certainly be adjusted for budgetary concerns.


Alternatively, you can really just focus on making your current deck more efficient and aggressive so it becomes harder to control. Ur Dragon can be a nasty deck and a carefully timed Dragonlord Dromoka can be the bane of a control player's existence. A friend of mine runs that deck and it gets out of hand quickly with the right draws (the past weekend he had Fist of Suns and Morophon, the Boundless in play and it got absurd).

[Gashnaw]

If you really want a control deck, I'm going to second the suggestion for Chromium, the Mutable. It's in perfect control colors, giving you access to all of the best removal, counterspells, hatebears, and other great control pieces.

Like @ISBPathfinder said, it's a great finisher with three hits max to kill. I'm fond of Duelist's Heritage to speed that up if possible. Flash and uncounterable means you've got pseudo haste, or a "surprise" 7/7 flying blocker when needed. Chromium being the primary win condition, and not really needing any extra pieces, means you have more room for interactive elements.

Chromium is pretty difficult to eliminate without a board wipe. Cards like Linvala, Keeper of Silence and Cursed Totem interfere with that somewhat but Esper is the color combination that will definitely be able to find answers to those so I really wouldn't worry too much. You should already have ways to answer creatures and artifacts in any control oriented deck hopefully.

If you are interested in a starting point for ideas, check out my list (link on my signature). I'm currently adjusting the list and will post an update in the next few days to reflect some new changes. It's a bit unconventional with a number of elements for fun with messing with the combat step to redirect attackers or damage, but you could easily drop that for actual counterspells that you might need. I have some pricey cards in there but none are absolutely necessary, it could certainly be adjusted for budgetary concerns.


Alternatively, you can really just focus on making your current deck more efficient and aggressive so it becomes harder to control. Ur Dragon can be a nasty deck and a carefully timed Dragonlord Dromoka can be the bane of a control player's existence. A friend of mine runs that deck and it gets out of hand quickly with the right draws (the past weekend he had Fist of Suns and Morophon, the Boundless in play and it got absurd).

I will check your list when i get a chance

as for boosting my dragon deck. I have a few cards i want to add. And I will have to my fist of suns, it's somewhere.

[Jemolk]

One card that I think is hilarious against control if you can ever get it to stick is Multani's Presence. Control decks rely on having a constant stream of card advantage in order to actually be able to answer everything, and this turning all counterspells into 2-for-1s is incredibly destructive to that sort of game plan. It's not like it'll carry you on its own, but it's definitely a nifty bit of tech on a 1-drop enchantment.