Unreleased and New Card Discussion

User avatar
Mookie
Posts: 1941
Joined: 2 years ago
Answers: 23
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: the æthereal plane

Post by Mookie » 10 months ago

Previews formally started, and there are a lot of interesting things.

Liesa, Shroud of Dusk makes opponents lose life at a rather brisk pace. Slightly weaker trigger than Kambal, Consul of Allocation, but also triggers off any spell... including the ones you cast. The commander tax modification also looks to be mandatory - if you're low on life, you won't be able to cast her anymore. Very interesting.

Bladegriff Prototype is sweet as a repeatable Vindicate for decks that otherwise lack removal. As previously mentioned, I'd like to give it a shot in Samut.

Sphinx of the Second Sun is hilarious. It also just looks really strong - 'untap everything, get upkeep triggers, and draw a card' is extremely powerful. 8 mana is a lot though.

Vampiric Tutor reprint is appreciated.

Krark, the Thumbless is interesting for coin flip decks, as one may expect. However, also seems interesting for spellslinger decks - he guarantees that every spell you cast will be copied eventually (since the failed flips return to hand). Expected value is to cast the spell twice for twice the cost, so roughly comparable to Kess, Dissident Mage, but on a 2 drop.

Nymris, Oona's Trickster looks fun for flash / instant tribal. Obligatory 'do a thing, draw a card' callout though.

Mnemonic Deluge is complete and utter nonsense, as is the rest of the cycle. 6UUU: triple Expropriate seems perfectly fair and reasonable, while triple Opt is significantly more tame. Does require some setup, at least. (and lots of mana) I suspect Mizzix's Mastery is better overall though, and Finale of Promise is also an option at large amounts of mana.

User avatar
Serenade
UnderKing
Posts: 869
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Serenade » 10 months ago

How does Krark work with Possibility Storm?
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

User avatar
Dragoon
Posts: 334
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Dragoon » 10 months ago

Serenade wrote:
10 months ago
How does Krark work with Possibility Storm?
It depends on how you stack the triggers:
  • If you resolve Possibility Storm first, you will get another spell, that will retrigger Krark, the Thumbless which might either copy it or bounce it back to your hand. Then you will resolve Krark's first trigger and either copy the original spell or do nothing.
  • if you resolve Krark's trigger first, you will either copy the spell or bounce it back to your hand, then get another spell at random from your library. That spell will retrigger Krark which might either copy it or bounce it back to your hand.
Decklist(s) on this forum: WUBRG [Golos] Maelstrom 2: Erratic Boogaloo (randomness themed deck) WUBRG

User avatar
duducrash
Still Learning
Posts: 157
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Brazil

Post by duducrash » 10 months ago

Is it okay to post about oficially spoiled cards in the decklist sectioon or should I wait release?

User avatar
ISBPathfinder
Bebopin
Posts: 1362
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: SD, USA

Post by ISBPathfinder » 10 months ago

Seraphic Greatsword - I have constantly questioned the wording when it comes to attacking the player with the most life but I sort of felt like it did fit as a mechanic in red and black decks where you might play somewhat of an all attack strategy or even a suicide based strategy. But in white???? the color of lifegain? I really hate that they didn't make this "opponent with the most life". Sure..... its..... ok and maybe there is some white deck somewhere that will play this but I feel like this constraint on a white equipment is a big miss for me. I really would have liked seeing better wording on an equipment that won't make it to standard, pioneer, or modern. Oh man..... this is a mythic to boot. wow...... just wow.... 2/10 thanks wizards.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

User avatar
duducrash
Still Learning
Posts: 157
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Brazil

Post by duducrash » 10 months ago

@ISBPathfinder Krark seems like a win win in Jori. And in everyother cantrip deck that theres arround. Sounds like a win/win,

User avatar
Crazy Monkey
Posts: 246
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: New Mexico, US

Post by Crazy Monkey » 10 months ago

Krark, the Thumbless has basically no downside with Zada, Hedron Grinder or Mirrorwing Dragon. He also seems very potent in copy-based storm/value decks from Zada to Kalamax, the Stormsire and Riku of Two Reflections, or just a trigger based deck like Kykar, Wind's Fury.

Sphinx of the Second Sun is absolutely nutty. Sphinx tribal with Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign and other cost reduction lets the deck be more reactive, and tomfoolery with clones like Progenitor Mimic is...a bit excessive. Add flash enablers and it's a build you own Lighthouse Chronologist.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | Lavinia | Silumgar | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Kydele & Thrasios | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Gisela | Feather | Osgir | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Vial & Ravos | Marchesa | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Genju | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Golos | Horde | Najeela | Traxos

User avatar
tstorm823
Knowledge Pool
Posts: 688
Joined: 2 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him
Location: York, PA

Post by tstorm823 » 10 months ago

Serenade wrote:
10 months ago
How does Krark work with Possibility Storm?
Dragoon wrote:
10 months ago
Serenade wrote:
10 months ago
How does Krark work with Possibility Storm?
It depends on how you stack the triggers:
  • If you resolve Possibility Storm first, you will get another spell, that will retrigger Krark, the Thumbless which might either copy it or bounce it back to your hand. Then you will resolve Krark's first trigger and either copy the original spell or do nothing.
  • if you resolve Krark's trigger first, you will either copy the spell or bounce it back to your hand, then get another spell at random from your library. That spell will retrigger Krark which might either copy it or bounce it back to your hand.
This is correct, but to put it in a direct way, you want to resolve Krark's trigger first (99.99% of the time). You will get a random spell from Possibility Storm even if the card is returned to your hand, and returning it to your hand will let you trigger the Storm again. It's very, very powerful in this direction.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 2638
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 10 months ago

Not 'new' per se, but man, of all the rock cycles I was excited to see reprints of in Legends, Marble Diamond et al were not one of them.

I mean the allied Talisman of Dominances have never been reprinted. There's still hope I guess, so I should probably wait and see how the week of spoilers pans out.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1561
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by darrenhabib » 10 months ago

Sphinx of the Second Sun and Aggravated Assault are infinite given that you get to untap all your lands in each new untap step.

If you can remove all the instants and sorcery from your graveyard except for Relentless Assault ,Seize the Day, Waves of Aggression, World at War, Fury of the Horde then you can keep returning them with Charmbreaker Devils to go infinite.
Delve cards like Dig Through Time, Ethereal Forager, Treasure Cruise would be your best bet here.

Getting to untap all your lands means that you can also use mana investment/intensive combos around returning the sorceries that give you additional main phases.
For example anything that can trigger Archaeomancer, Izzet Chronarch, Lore Drakkis, Mnemonic Wall, Nucklavee, Possessed Skaab, Salvager of Secrets, Scholar of the Ages.
Let's say it's a way to copy these creatures like Followed Footsteps or Progenitor Mimic.
Blade of Selves, Mimic Vat, Felhide Spiritbinder, Flamerush Rider, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Splinter Twin, Mirror Mockery, Helm of the Host.
Or maybe ways to return them to hand so that you can recast both them and the additional main phase cards.
Things like Cloudstone Curio, Equilibrium, Crystal Shard, Erratic Portal as examples.
Sure non-exiling extra turn cards do the trick better, but you could look to extend these with the these other additional main phase cards for redundancy.

Overall seriously Sphinx of the Second Sun is one of the best reanimation targets in all of Commander in my opinion. The fact that it untaps all your mana means that you can get value out of it the turn it comes into play if you get to the next main phase.

User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1561
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by darrenhabib » 10 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
10 months ago
Not 'new' per se, but man, of all the rock cycles I was excited to see reprints of in Legends, Marble Diamond et al were not one of them.

I mean the allied Talisman of Dominances have never been reprinted. There's still hope I guess, so I should probably wait and see how the week of spoilers pans out.
Totally they should have printed some new cards that are untapped versions given the power creep of Arcane Signet.
This would have helped their sales while also not introducing anything that is overpowered at all.

Pearl Diamond 2
{t}: Add {w}.

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 1375
Joined: 2 years ago
Answers: 65
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
10 months ago
Sphinx of the Second Sun and Aggravated Assault are infinite given that you get to untap all your lands in each new untap step.
It is important to note that this is not necessarily infinite. Or, not as cheaply or effectively as it seems. You will always end up with the Extra Combat/Main Phase from Aggravated Assault before you get your additional Beginning Phase which means you don't get to Untap before reaching your Postcombat main phase again. You will end up taking your Beginning Phase(s) and then moving to the End Step without being able to use that untapped mana for Assault.

As an illustration, here is what your turn normally looks like:
Normal Turn
Show
Beginning Phase
Precombat Main Phase
Combat Phase
Postcombat Main Phase
Ending Phase
Once Sphinx triggers, your turn looks like this:
Sphinx Modified Turn
Show
Beginning Phase
Precombat Main Phase
Combat Phase
Postcombat Main Phase
Beginning Phase
Ending Phase
Notice the Beginning Phase Sphinx grants comes after the current Postcombat Main Phase. Now, since you are going to be activating Assault after Sphinx's trigger resolves, your turn now looks like this:
Sphinx and Assault Modified Turn
Show
Beginning Phase
Precombat Main Phase
Combat Phase
Postcombat Main Phase
Combat Phase
Postcombat Main Phase
Beginning Phase (technically from the second time Sphinx triggered this turn)
Beginning Phase
Ending Phase
Notice that in the last case, you still have not untapped from the Beginning Phase Sphinx has granted you so you still don't have the necessary mana to activate it again. Or, at least, you will run out eventually. Any activating of Assault will create a Combat/Main Phase that exists before the Beginning Phase.

However, as an additional scenario, let's say you activate Assault twice, right away. Ignoring that the creatures won't untap for the additional combat phase (since they only untap when the ability resolves), the turn looks like this to start with:
Sphinx and Assault x2 Modified Turn
Show
Beginning Phase
Precombat Main Phase
Combat Phase
Postcombat Main Phase
Combat Phase
Postcombat Main Phase
Combat Phase
Postcombat Main Phase
Beginning Phase (technically from the second time Sphinx triggered this turn)
Beginning Phase
Ending Phase
With this, you will run through the first additional Combat Phase Assault provided, which creates a trigger for Sphinx so now the rest of this turn looks like this:
Sphinx and Assault x2 Modified Turn - Cont.
Show
Beginning Phase
Combat Phase
Postcombat Main Phase
Beginning Phase (technically from the second time Sphinx triggered this turn)
Beginning Phase
Ending Phase
In this case, the newly added Beginning Phase ends up being before the next Combat/Main Phase pairing. So, you now untap and are back to a single Postcombat main phase (where Sphinx triggers again). Where you will need to activate Assault twice again.

So, as long as you have 10 mana and don't mind "skipping" a combat (except for things with Vigilance), you can indeed go infinite.

And, of course, Tabak has commented on this and others have offered their insights in the comments as well:


User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 2638
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 10 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
10 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
10 months ago
Not 'new' per se, but man, of all the rock cycles I was excited to see reprints of in Legends, Marble Diamond et al were not one of them.

I mean the allied Talisman of Dominances have never been reprinted. There's still hope I guess, so I should probably wait and see how the week of spoilers pans out.
Totally they should have printed some new cards that are untapped versions given the power creep of Arcane Signet.
This would have helped their sales while also not introducing anything that is overpowered at all.

Pearl Diamond 2
{t}: Add {w}.
I mean I'd be just as happy to see Arcane Signet get reprinted again anyway, but yeah this is good too. Let's be honest, you don't run the diamonds unless you absolutely have to.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
Serenade
UnderKing
Posts: 869
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Serenade » 10 months ago

I'm just glad the sphinx is not a legend.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

User avatar
Cyberium
Posts: 585
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Cyberium » 10 months ago

duducrash wrote:
10 months ago
Is it okay to post about oficially spoiled cards in the decklist sectioon or should I wait release?
In the past few times I posted deck threads the moment new legends came out, so I think it's ok?
ISBPathfinder wrote:
10 months ago
Seraphic Greatsword - I have constantly questioned the wording when it comes to attacking the player with the most life but I sort of felt like it did fit as a mechanic in red and black decks where you might play somewhat of an all attack strategy or even a suicide based strategy. But in white???? the color of lifegain? I really hate that they didn't make this "opponent with the most life". Sure..... its..... ok and maybe there is some white deck somewhere that will play this but I feel like this constraint on a white equipment is a big miss for me. I really would have liked seeing better wording on an equipment that won't make it to standard, pioneer, or modern. Oh man..... this is a mythic to boot. wow...... just wow.... 2/10 thanks wizards.
Yeah... I have no idea wth WotC is thinking on this one. White is the color of balance, so I can see the Greatsword becoming more powerful against an opponent with highest life total (very "knightly"), but why does it have to include yourself in this matter, especially with such a high equip cost, as the color of life gain? It might work as a rare, but as mythic it really feels like a blow when black gets Vampiric Tutor as mythic.

Then again, maybe WotC designed this card with Liesa, Shroud of Dusk in mind, wanting you to mix white with other colors so your life is low enough to trigger this equipment a few times first.

User avatar
ISBPathfinder
Bebopin
Posts: 1362
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: SD, USA

Post by ISBPathfinder » 10 months ago

Cyberium wrote:
10 months ago
Yeah... I have no idea wth WotC is thinking on this one. White is the color of balance, so I can see the Greatsword becoming more powerful against an opponent with highest life total (very "knightly"), but why does it have to include yourself in this matter, especially with such a high equip cost, as the color of life gain? It might work as a rare, but as mythic it really feels like a blow when black gets Vampiric Tutor as mythic.

Then again, maybe WotC designed this card with Liesa, Shroud of Dusk in mind, wanting you to mix white with other colors so your life is low enough to trigger this equipment a few times first.
Then make it BW and stop making all these "it works in multicolor" crap in white when they never actually work as white cards. I also totally hate that they have taken to making white rare / mythic cards that are five color identity but take up white rare / mythics. If its intended as a BW mythic then put it in a multicolored slot and give white a real mythic.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

User avatar
Mookie
Posts: 1941
Joined: 2 years ago
Answers: 23
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: the æthereal plane

Post by Mookie » 10 months ago

I'm going to assume Seraphic Greatsword is at mythic primarily for limited balance. Moonsilver Spear was an incredibly oppressive bomb in AVR limited, and this looks to be even stronger, even with the pseudo-dethrone trigger. That said, I do agree that it is rather underwhelming. Totally fine from a pure power level perspective, but in terms of 'cards I actually want for my white EDH decks', it ranks rather low.

Phyrexian Triniform is... a very large slab of beef. I'm going to say that I prefer Ancient Stone Idol - trample and flash are both pretty relevant for a giant beater - but Triniform has enough raw stats to start entering 'big enough to consider running despite a lack of evasion or protection' territory. Encore-ing for 9x tokens is a lot too.

User avatar
Cyberium
Posts: 585
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Cyberium » 10 months ago

Mookie wrote:
10 months ago
I'm going to assume Seraphic Greatsword is at mythic primarily for limited balance. Moonsilver Spear was an incredibly oppressive bomb in AVR limited, and this looks to be even stronger, even with the pseudo-dethrone trigger. That said, I do agree that it is rather underwhelming. Totally fine from a pure power level perspective, but in terms of 'cards I actually want for my white EDH decks', it ranks rather low.
Limited/draft had been the big seller for WotC, yes, but as a product intended for EDH it's rather annoying that they want to mix the two together, not to mention Seraphic Greatsword isn't even a new design. WotC could've create something new and fancy then it might feel justified to have it being mythic in a brand new product line, like something that casts Balance on hit.

User avatar
not-a-cube
Posts: 88
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Belgium

Post by not-a-cube » 10 months ago

Phyrexian Triniform I like the card, but I have problems with the art.
I think the art looks pretty cool, but it in no way makes me think of a golem which splits up into 3 smaller golems. It looks like a kor in armor. This art should have been on an equipment card for something with "armor" in the name.

The card itself looks fun, it's expensive, but in an artifact deck 9 colorless mana isn't that big a deal and after the encore swinging with 3 9/9's and having 12 golems after they die feels like 12 mana worth. Not the most busted card, but playable for sure.
EDH Decks:
Queen Marchesa
Chainer, Dementia Master
Will Kenrith
Bruna, the fading light

illakunsaa
Posts: 131
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by illakunsaa » 10 months ago

The new rogue gave me big nut.

ilovesaprolings
Posts: 507
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by ilovesaprolings » 10 months ago

The new rogue is not a pirate and i'm sad

User avatar
Myllior
Posts: 185
Joined: 2 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Myllior » 10 months ago

I love the look of Liesa, Shroud of Dusk for promoting classic Orzhov attrition in a moderate way, while also being a hefty beatstick. Paying life in place of commander tax also seems pretty sweet, since I imagine she'll attract a fair bit of spot removal.

Mnemonic Deluge is the latest addition to the "Go big or go home" club. I've seen lots of mention of Expropriate (which has to get into your graveyard some way other than resolving due to the self-exile clause), Time Stretch and Thousand-Year Storm with this card, but the real card to pair with it for me is one that also happens to have the abbreviation "MD": Mind's Desire|SCG. If you cast S spells then Mind's Desire, hitting X more spells including Mnemonic Deluge, you can get a grand total of 4S+3X+10 copies of Mind's Desire overall. The only way this card could be better for me is if it allowed casting of the actual targeted instant or sorcery card, so that it would be self-propagating with Eye of the Storm|RAV, but I'll live; the card's already nutty enough.

Speaking of nutty: Opposition Agent. Clearly someone's custom creation (pretty sure I've seen requests for the first effect a couple of times over the years) that needed a non-Standard set to slot into. This card is going to be so wacky and I can't wait to play it. It goes well with so many styles of card: Maralen of the Mornsong, Scheming Symmetry, Wishclaw Talisman, Field of Ruin, From the Ashes, Wave of Vitriol, Winds of Abandon, Collective Voyage, etc. On top of that, it shuts down tutor commanders such as Sisay, Weatherlight Captain and Zur the Enchanter. There's just so much going on here; it's the next cEDH staple.


User avatar
tstorm823
Knowledge Pool
Posts: 688
Joined: 2 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him
Location: York, PA

Post by tstorm823 » 10 months ago

Serenade wrote:
10 months ago
I'm just glad the sphinx is not a legend.
Anybody got a ruling on what happens if I have like six of these sphinges? Do I get a bunch of consecutive beginning phases? I see no reason why not, just want to double check.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

User avatar
Serenade
UnderKing
Posts: 869
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Serenade » 10 months ago

I think you get a free Paradox Haze. Like, it just appears on the battlefield.

Kodama is too good.

Radiant is too bad.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”