Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[BeneTleilax]

I think you're heavily underestimating the power level difference between Clues and Blood Tokens. The gulf between Looting and Drawing a card is pretty huge. We're already seeing that Blood Tokens can be costed more efficiently than clues in terms of the cards that generate them. They're going to play out *very* differently than clue tokens, I think.

Right, but would it have really cost anything if Gluttonous Guest said "whenever you sacrifice an artifact token"? I could see that it's for flavor, but Blood tokens already don't much much sense in terms of flavor.

[Gamazson]

That Zombie Scorpion is a thing of beauty.

Agreed! It will be a valuable addition to any black deck that cares to sacrifice creatures. 2 life for 2 cards sorcery speed at a cost of is on the weaker but playable. I you sacrifice a less valuable token that leaves you with a death touch creature as well, which is always useful.

[Wallycaine]

I think you're heavily underestimating the power level difference between Clues and Blood Tokens. The gulf between Looting and Drawing a card is pretty huge. We're already seeing that Blood Tokens can be costed more efficiently than clues in terms of the cards that generate them. They're going to play out *very* differently than clue tokens, I think.

Right, but would it have really cost anything if Gluttonous Guest said "whenever you sacrifice an artifact token"? I could see that it's for flavor, but Blood tokens already don't much much sense in terms of flavor.

It would be a significant power level increase, especially with both Clues and Treasure around it in standard (and probably even in this set, at least for Tresure). That would probably cause problems for limited play, where Gluttonous Guest is aimed, as well as standard, where at least some of the Blood caring vampires are likely to end up.

[BeneTleilax]

That would probably cause problems for limited play, where Gluttonous Guest is aimed

If they have multiple non-interacting artifact tokens running around the same limited environment, that's already a problem.

as well as standard, where at least some of the Blood caring vampires are likely to end up.

I'd allow for more interesting decks, rather than cards that only interact with things in a single set. If you want to play block constructed, play that.

We've got two legends already trying to force Blood tokens in EDH, and Strefan, Maurer Progenitor won't be played in Standard or Limited anyways. Would it have killed them to make those cards backwards (and forwards) compatible? It's just needlessly limiting deck diversity.

[Wallycaine]

That would probably cause problems for limited play, where Gluttonous Guest is aimed

If they have multiple non-interacting artifact tokens running around the same limited environment, that's already a problem.

Treasure and Clues already co-exist, so that's a ship that sailed a while back.

[BeneTleilax]

Treasure and Clues already co-exist, so that's a ship that sailed a while back.

In what limited? You had Modern Horizons, but that set made a point of letting them interact.

[Wallycaine]

Treasure and Clues already co-exist, so that's a ship that sailed a while back.

In what limited? You had Modern Horizons, but that set made a point of letting them interact.

Hm, I thought I had recalled a treasure card in Midnight Hunt, but it was apparently commander midnight hunt instead.

[Igzex]

Wedding Ring is going to cause some really weird table talk...

[tstorm823]

Only if you don't run *any* other legendary vampires. Or, for that matter, just revive a Legendary Vampire. It also seems unlikely that *every* opponent will have a 4/4 flying blocker, so you can just direct her towards open opponents.

Speaking of "other legendary vampires", the card looks like a good fit in a deck lead by Good Olivia.

[pokken]

man that new Olivia is dope. I love the haste and aggro and rewarding you for playing other gigantic vampires like Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief and Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet. There are a bunch of pretty nasty expensive legendary vampires.

[kirkusjones]

Very excited for Grolnok, the Omnivore. Going to run him with big brudder Gitrog in the pile of nonsense that is Archelos lands.

[Gashnaw]

Wedding ring seems.to be more.powerful.than one may think. Sure it still not blue draw power. But that is still an extra.draw each turn. And i am putting it in mass.draw kwain.

[Gamazson]

Wedding Ring is going to cause some really weird table talk...

I expect to see an 85% increase in the phrase "I want a divorce"

[materpillar]

Cleave looks really really weird. I don't like that templating much at all. It's a cool mechanic though.

Wedding Ring seems extremely strong.

Grolnok, the Omnivore... GET IN MY CHANGELING DECK NOOOOOOOOOOOW

[Serenade]

Agree 100% on cleave. Reminds me of the Mythos cycle a bit. Excited to see more.

[Gamazson]

Change of Fortune is interesting but seems over cost for a 1 sided wheel.

[Wallycaine]

Change of Fortune is interesting but seems over cost for a 1 sided wheel.

It's not purely a wheel, it's a discard synergy piece. For example, if you cast Cathartic Reunion before Change, you'll get to draw for the 2 cards discarded to that in addition to the ones discarded to change.

[Guardman]

Change of Fortune I really like. It's not for every deck, but in any deck with a lot of rummaging or looting effects, this can easily be a four mana draw 7+ cards.

[Mookie]

Wheeeeee, new cardssssss

Mechanics:

• Training looks a little weak, as attack triggers tend to be - attacking with another creature (and a big one, even) can be difficult. Still, I'll keep an eye on stuff for Samut - haste makes this a lot better, and it looks like there may be some interesting payoffs.
• Cleave is interesting from a Mel perspective, but ultimately dependent on the individual cards. Still, flexibility is good.
• Blood tokens are a bit parasitic / weak, but they' can also be aggressively costed enablers for artifact / discard synergies.
• Disturb making things come back as auras is a bit more niche than creating creatures, but this is another mechanic that depends heavily on the individual cards - most of the first batch were a bit on the weaker side. Still, I'll keep an eye out for stuff for Brago.
• Exploit returns! Sacrificing things can be an upside for some decks, so hoping for something nice - I've taken Sidisi, Undead Vizier out of my decks, but she did put in good work for a while.
• Daybound/nightbound also returns, and I'll probably still avoid running them due to not wanting to track day/night forever.

Cards:

• Change of Fortune reminds me a bit of Shadow of the Grave - a powerful effect for cycling/discard-based decks, although mixed with Wheel of Fortune. More expensive, but it also actually does something on its own. Obviously very strong for wheel decks and Rielle, the Everwise.
• Volatile Arsonist is fun. Sort of like a mini-Inferno Titan.
• Geistlight Snare looks like a mix of Lofty Denial, Wizard's Retort, and Mana Leak. I'm not a fan of soft counters, but seems reasonable if you can consistently get it down to 1 mana.
• Wedding Announcement is white card draw // token production. The tokens seem a little weak here, but at least it self-enables. I guess I have been requesting more Bitterblossom effects in white, and Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia has certainly impressed me, so may be better than expected. Flipping into an anthem is a bit hard to evaluate, but can be good in the right decks. Alternatively, run Solemnity or other counter-removing shenanigans to pump out value forever. Overall, I'd say it looks quite solid, if only because getting something immediately at end step is so nice.
• Grolnok, the Omnivore - RIBBIT. The Gitrog Monster says hi. Sultai frog tribal when? It reminds me a bit of Muldrotha, the Gravetide - not limited to once per turn, but you can't loop stuff either.
• Demonic Bargain is Grim Tutor mixed with Diminishing Returns. A bit weaker in combo decks where you may exile what you want, but three mana is a reasonable rate.
• By Invitation Only - yes. I'm a (blood)sucker for asymmetric board wipes, and this looks great for token decks.
• Fell Stinger looks sweet. Shaving a mana off Vulturous Aven and having a more relevant body (deathtouch) is quite nice, and I can see this played over Sign in Blood / Read the Bones in decks that care about the body.
• Dorothea, Vengeful Victim is amusing, and turns anything into Geist of Saint Traft... as do Moonsilver Spear and Invocation of Saint Traft. Time to assemble Traft tribal-tron! (which is obviously Geist wielding the spear and enchanted by both Dorothea and his invocation).
• Olivia, Crimson Bride is interesting. Kaalia of the Vast-ing a creature from the graveyard is quite strong, even if it gets exiled when you have no legendary vampires. I'm very amused by the idea of running Leyline of Singularity and Conspiracy to make the reanimated creatures satisfy their own requirements.
• Sorin the Mirthless is not amused, which amuses me.
• Savior of Ollenbock looks sweet. A very cheap white reanimation effect // repeatable Fiend Hunter seems very strong.
• Dig Up is interesting. I wouldn't run Lay of the Land or Diabolic Tutor, but I have run Traverse the Ulvenwald in the past - fetching a basic in the early game and something more relevant in the lategame can be quite nice.
• Wedding Ring looks extremely potent. It's a little more kingmaker-y than I would like, but it's also a very strong draw engine if you throw it on the right player. The flavor is also excellent, and will lead to many amusing interactions.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I like that WotC has circled back to the Godzilla format for the alternate art/concept cards. Not that Bram Stoker is particularly jarring on innistrad, but it makes all the alts easier to swallow.

Edit: Love the art on Wedding announcement! What a wholesome depiction of two people sharing their undeath together. The front side is especially nice, they look so excited to attend but in vastly different ways. The lady is like "Oh look, Sorin and Olivia are betrothed! Isn't that just picturesque?" And the dude is all like "This is great! I'll dig out my best shoes!" Very nice.

[folding_music]

Blood tokens are the first standardized token where the name just makes no sense to me at all

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

Blood tokens are the first standardized token where the name just makes no sense to me at all

I second that.

Also, the name on the Anje card. Although it may simply be a matter of vampires being ironic and desecrating and twisting everything pure about weddings (hence the title of Maid of Dishonor), I like to think Olivia really hates the crass and uncouth Falkenraths and Anje in particular, but for the obligations (pretense) of nobility Anje is simply too high-ranking to be ignored, so Olivia is forced to tolerate the Falkenrath scion at her wedding.

But to show her distaste she saddles Anje with the title of dubious honor, something the latter bears as badge of pride.

Of course, watch as the Magic story reveals they're old friends, rendering all the above moot.

[BeneTleilax]

Blood tokens are the first standardized token where the name just makes no sense to me at all

I second that.

Likewise. Would it have killed them to make them drain?

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Blood tokens are the first standardized token where the name just makes no sense to me at all

I second that.

Likewise. Would it have killed them to make them drain?

"1: target opponent loses 1 life, you gain 1 life" would've been sweet. Heck, a one shot extort wouldn't have killed anything either. Rummaging is just kinda stupid imho, but inb4 we watch it be mildly problematic anyway

[BeneTleilax]

Voice of the Blessed looks like the best Pridemate to date (unless you count Heliod, and even then, it's close). They are really pushing lifegain, I wonder to what extent lifegain synergies are going to become standard in Wx and Wxx decks going forwards.