Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[Mookie]

There are A LOT of commanders XX with power 2 or less. ... Brago, King Eternal

Unfortunately, copying Brago triggers does nothing - the targets get flickered by the first trigger, so the second fizzles. Candlekeep Sage (and other backgrounds) does work though.

[yeti1069]

With just Delney and Helm of the Host you are swinging in for 12 unblockable damage to your opponents if I'm reading cards correctly, not to mention, now you get 7 extra triggers off of Stoneforge Mystic lmao

Helm doesn't grant the creature an ability, so Delney has nothing to copy.

[heridfel]

.

I was super pumped for Assemble the Players at first, but thinking about it more it's probably a dud for most decks. Looking at my two whitest weeniest decks (Heliod and Lurrus), Heliod runs 30 creatures but only 23 that can be played off the top with Assemble. Lurrus fairs a bit better with 29 creatures, 27 or 28 of whom can be cast off the top (I can never remember if Bronze Guardian is a 0/5 or a #/5 while on top), but that's still only "drawing a card" about a quarter to a third of the time. It may make it in Lurrus anyways but I think often we're at a point where White offers better draw engines, and as soon as you're out of monowhite you definitely have better draw engines.

Same here - Teysa has ~22 creatures (out of 35) that it can cast, but that doesn't feel like enough. I was hoping that the card would either have some additional rules text or be on a creature itself. The once-per-turn limitation is also awkward. I could see it going in Shadowborn Apostle / Persistent Petitioners decks if not for that limitation.

I really don't know why this needed to be once per turn either. The green versions like Elven Chorus and Augur of Autumnhave no restrictions on what you can cast off the top, nor how often, and often come with additional upside. This seems like it's playing it unnecessarily safe.

Well, Elven Chorus costs twice as much for that upside and Augur of Autumn requires at least two other creatures in play before it can be used for creatures. I would also say that one of green's traditional strengths being "creatures" should give it an advantage when it comes to cards which enable creatures to be searched for/played. Granted, the color pie is mostly outdated these days and all colors' creatures these days put most green creatures of yore to shame, but it is what it is.

White is also still the best color for board wipes. If a player is able to drop a Wrath-equivalent (probably with an upside these days), then get two or three creatures off Assemble the Players in a single turn, it's a much bigger reversal than anything green could do. That is especially true in non-Commander formats.

[Mookie]

re: Intrude on the Mind - thinking about it a bit more, it seems reasonable. My initial reaction was 'opponent chooses which cards you get = bad card', but the token makes it more interesting. You could, theoretically, do a 5-0 split, in which case you either get five cards or a 5/5 flyer with flash. Less impressive in EDH, but it can be good in situations where a surprise flyer is relevant (which is pretty often, IMO). Doing a 3-2 split gets you a better Mulldrifter, at the very least - either upgrade to a 3/3 body or get an extra card. I wouldn't run it over Fact or Fiction, but I do think it has its place.

"Buried in the Garden" may be going in my cube - Wild Growth + Oblivion Ring seems nice for my enchantress theme.

[Mr_Webman]

Delney, Streetwise Lookout is veeery good, and absolutely insane in my Derevi, Empyrial Tactician deck. Here's a list of all the creatures in the deck his ability works with, including Derevi herself:

• Recruiter of the Guard
• Spellseeker
• Wood Elves
• Coiling Oracle
• Aether Channeler
• Archivist of Oghma
• Druid of Purification
• Lonis, Cryptozoologist
• Faerie Mastermind
• Skyclave Apparition
• Urza, Lord High Artificer
• Eternal Witness
• Karmic Guide
• Ledger Shredder
• Toski, Bearer of Secrets

[RowanKeltizar]

I'm an idiot, I was thinking of Blade of Selves. But you would have to put that on a non-legendary I guess, unless you didn't care that the tokens died.

[Hermes_]

ewww double Dockside Extortionist

[CommanderMaster999]

ewww double Dockside Extortionist

theres worse than that easily

… as a matter of fact Agent of Treachery is exibit A (doubles both triggers)

[5colorsrainbow]

• Morska, Undersea Sleuth

looks fun enough for clue so I'm excited for her. A number of clue related cards are also triggering off when you draw your second card each time which is a nice way to give clue support and a soft limit on how much you can do.

[kirkusjones]

Private Eye is 100% a reference to this:


I hate it. But I love it.

[yeti1069]

.

Same here - Teysa has ~22 creatures (out of 35) that it can cast, but that doesn't feel like enough. I was hoping that the card would either have some additional rules text or be on a creature itself. The once-per-turn limitation is also awkward. I could see it going in Shadowborn Apostle / Persistent Petitioners decks if not for that limitation.

I really don't know why this needed to be once per turn either. The green versions like Elven Chorus and Augur of Autumnhave no restrictions on what you can cast off the top, nor how often, and often come with additional upside. This seems like it's playing it unnecessarily safe.

Well, Elven Chorus costs twice as much for that upside and Augur of Autumn requires at least two other creatures in play before it can be used for creatures. I would also say that one of green's traditional strengths being "creatures" should give it an advantage when it comes to cards which enable creatures to be searched for/played. Granted, the color pie is mostly outdated these days and all colors' creatures these days put most green creatures of yore to shame, but it is what it is.

White is also still the best color for board wipes. If a player is able to drop a Wrath-equivalent (probably with an upside these days), then get two or three creatures off Assemble the Players in a single turn, it's a much bigger reversal than anything green could do. That is especially true in non-Commander formats.

Elven Chorus is also Cryptolith Rite, which is a 2-mana card, essentially making the 'play creatures from your library' a 2-mana effect here.

Augur has some requirements to get online, but before you meet those, you get to play lands off the top, and once requirements are met, you get to do both, which means you're also more likely to hit more creatures in a turn, since you get to clear at least one land on top.

White is supposed to be the best weenie creature color, and I don't think giving white the option to have an unrestricted weenie version of this effect would have been an issue.

As for wipes and then creatures, that's an option, but you're still gated by available mana in the second worst color for mana production.

"Buried in the Garden" may be going in my cube - Wild Growth + Oblivion Ring seems nice for my enchantress theme.

What set symbol is that?

[MAGUSZANIN]

What set symbol is that?

That card was spoiled in a foreign language (though I don't know which one off the top of my head) and so that image is an English translation mockup made using a "custom" card creator.

Scryfall link with the actual card image for reference: https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/191/buried-in-the-garden

As for Assemble the Players, I think it's basically the same as the other White Ramp/Card Draw options we were getting back in like 2018: They are playing it extremely safe with the effect, and this card is more notable for the new design space it implies than it being good in itself. Once they realize this doesn't go far enough, we are going to get a version with a couple less restrictions, and that will grow over time until they print something equivalent to Tocasia's Welcome or Esper Sentinel (ie, something good enough to actually see play).

This is annoying in the short term, but it does come with the upside of it not creating Smothering Tithe 2: Card Draw Boogaloo on accident.

[NZB2323]

I think that Delney, Streetwise Lookout and Assemble the Players are for the Frodo, Adventurous Hobbit//Sam, Loyal Attendant deck that runs The Battle of Bywater, Dusk // Dawn, Fell the Mighty, and Expel the Interlopers.

[CommanderMaster999]

I can take that "The Hull of Pride Clade" is a forever staple in Arcades, the Strategist

Oh by the way the ability stacks like Den of the Bugbear/Genju of the Fields so be careful you could accidentally deck yourself

[kirkusjones]

Anybody want to shed some insight into why Drag the Canal is a rare? It feels way more like a strong uncommon to me, especially since it doesn't seem like you can flash in the token to block, die and trigger the second line of text.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

Anybody want to shed some insight into why Drag the Canal is a rare? It feels way more like a strong uncommon to me, especially since it doesn't seem like you can flash in the token to block, die and trigger the second line of text.

Maybe so that the bg and gu Limited archetypes (Gather Evidence) don't squabble over it and splash for it?

Or maybe it made chump-blocking too easy and beneficial for Dimir in Limited?

[Dunadain]

The Pride of Hull Clade is practically begging to be put in Arcades, the Strategist. I wonder if it's good enough to be a commander.


IT'S A TURTLE THOUGH!!! Maybe it's finally time for me to brew my turtle deck. The fact that it has multiple creature types is kind of muddying the waters though…

[Lifeless]

If you told me The Price of Hull Clade was birthed by ChatGPT I would 100% believe you.

[Serenade]

Wow, Charix loves Escape Tunnel. I always need either one more island OR another one-cost, instant speed unblockable outlet.

[Mookie]

Friendship ended with Villainous Wealth. Now Dopplegang is my favorite ugx finisher.

The obvious point of comparison is Rite of Replication - Dopplegang gives one thing for five mana or four things for eight mana, which is a bit weaker than Rite giving one for four / five for nine.

Dopplegang's strength is that it is significantly more flexible - instead of only hitting creatures, you can hit any permanent... including lands. If you hit lands, it becomes mana-positive at X=4 (costs 14 mana, generates 16 untapped lands), and you can go infinite with Eternal Witness at X=5, which is certainly interesting. That's obviously pretty expensive, but I could see '11 mana: Dopplegang 3x3 lands → 20 total mana: Eternal Witness + Dopplegang for infinite' being a reasonable play across two turns.

[MAGUSZANIN]

So 5 Mana gets you 1 target x1 copy, 8 Mana gets you 2 targets x2 Copies, 11 Mana gets you 3 targets x3 Copies (that is +9 mana right there if you just target lands!), 14 Mana gets you 4 targets x4 Copies. If someone has a damage dealer that's probably just lethal by copying something like Gary. 4 Gary gives you 8 Devotion x 4 triggers= 32 on their own. Terror of the Peaks hits for 15x4=60 assuming it's the only creature you copy. If you copy 1 additional 1/1 that adds 16, a 2 power creature like Eternal Witness adds 32 and so on.

Purphoros copies will see eachother and kill the table even through the legend rule too.

At 17 Mana you get 5 targets x5 copies, and if one of those is Eternal Witness then you get this back to your hand along with some free interaction, and make 4x5= 20 mana worth of lands per cast, which is enough to just go infinite with room to spare to scale the casts up with each loop.

I think you can do it a little earlier if someone has a Sol Ring too, since you will be making untapped permanents that tap for 2. 4x4 Gives us 4 Sol Rings which is 8 Mana right there, with the remaining 8 lands also giving 8 mana for a total of 16, plus 4 Eternal Witnesses. If you kept 1 land up, or you have an Altar to make mana from the Eternal Witnesses, you can then scale the loop up to the 17 mana version.

[yeti1069]

I think that Delney, Streetwise Lookout and Assemble the Players are for the Frodo, Adventurous Hobbit//Sam, Loyal Attendant deck that runs The Battle of Bywater, Dusk // Dawn, Fell the Mighty, and Expel the Interlopers.

Good call! I'll have to look at their possible inclusion.

[folding_music]

Kinnan with Doppelgang will be a huge groan but the card is so fun for creating custom combos I can forgive it <3 really silly card

[Dragonlover]

I'm really tempted to put Doppelgang in wincons. Gives me Biovisionary copies, can protect wincons by making copies so I'm less vulnerable to spot removal, extra Sphinx of the Second Sun is always a laugh...

Yeah, if I open one it's definitely worth a punt.

Dragonlover

[NZB2323]

Repulsive mutation slides right into my Legolas, Counter of Kills voltron control deck.