30+ Creature Type Changeling Tribal

[Falkenbach]

I did test my urtet tap/untap build last weekend with 5 games played. I am not convinced its about it yet. Its such a glasscannon build. It got blown away by boardwipes quite alot. Also as mentioned getting alot of changelings on the field is kinda only possible in theory not in reality. The deck went off in 2/5 games but both those games i had mirror entity and maskwood nexus online.. i run 4 protection pieces and even then its hard to keep a boardstate.. i might turn back to my etb variant as it was the most reliable version. Also alot more interaction is on etb tribal cards

[materpillar]

I just got an Unsettled Mariner. I was trying to figure out if I like it or Avian Changeling better? Flying is quite nifty but the mariner seems better as the format gets faster and faster.

Sauron, the Dark Lord looks pretty decent. You can pump random Changelings a bunch and every time one connects you can discard your hand to draw 4. Seems pretty solid.

Doors of Durin also seem decent. Be nice to have a free + hexproof Reaper King. Whiffing sounds awful though so it probably won't make the cut.

There's a pile of other options but they all seem pretty meh to me off hand. Unless you really need another counterspell with Saruman's Trickery or you're going combat damage heavy (Moria Marauder).

[materpillar]

I really really want to find a way to jam Shelob, Child of Ungoliant and more Dragon Tempest effects into this deck. >.>

[offspring]

I just got an Unsettled Mariner. I was trying to figure out if I like it or Avian Changeling better? Flying is quite nifty but the mariner seems better as the format gets faster and faster.

Sauron, the Dark Lord looks pretty decent. You can pump random Changelings a bunch and every time one connects you can discard your hand to draw 4. Seems pretty solid.

Doors of Durin also seem decent. Be nice to have a free + hexproof Reaper King. Whiffing sounds awful though so it probably won't make the cut.

There's a pile of other options but they all seem pretty meh to me off hand. Unless you really need another counterspell with Saruman's Trickery or you're going combat damage heavy (Moria Marauder).

Unsettled Mariner has been low-key awesome for me. The extra mana it costs has been more than worth it, and I really believe it helps. If anything, people will remove it because it's annoying, and it's fine having them use a removal spell for this.

Up to now, I haven't been happy with anything from LotR changeling wise (I think the set is really cool, but not for us) until Shelob was revealed. I mean: a six mana 8/8 with deathtouch and ward 2 that boosts our team is just objectively awesome, right? It makes for fantastic blockers (aside from herself) and attackers getting through is pretty relevant in some lists (I for one run Captain N'ghathrod Grolnok, the Omnivore, Seafloor Oracle, Tovolar, Dire Overlord // Tovolar, the Midnight Scourge and Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator. So depending on the price I'm seriously considering her.

By the way, I run both Mistwalker and Avian Changeling since flying is indeed very relevant. Unfortunately, Cairn Wanderer and Mothdust Changeling aren't really good enough in my opinion.

[materpillar]

Got a game in last week against Sen Triplets and Elenda and Azor. Elenda and Azor cast a T4 Alhammarret's Archive, which promptly ate a Mana Drain. Sen Triplets then untapped into Omniscience → Dig Through Time → Teferi, Time Raveler → Narset, Parter of Veils → Pile of stuff I don't remember → Necropotence draw 15. Elenda proceeded to do nothing. I used Vedalken Aethermage to find Masked Vandal and exiled Omniscience. Then, I proceeded to eat two Sram's Expertises over the next two turns to bounce my board. Eventually, Sen Triplets cast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth + Sorin Markov to put me to 10. Followed that up with Swords to Plowshares + Jace, the Mind Sculptor to clear out my 2 blockers and kill me.

That being said, he was at 9 health at the end of the game and I'd killed his Teferi, Time Raveler with a Changeling Titan Be'lakor, the Dark Master trigger. If I'd been on the play, I'd still have killed him through this absurd line of his. Also, if I'd throw the Titan trigger at his face, he'd also have almost certainly died to the Elenda player, who I'm pretty confident I would have destroyed in the 1v1.

Sea Gate Loremaster is getting axed, I cast it 3 times this game and it did nothing. Ohabi Caleria also did nothing.

Unsettled Mariner has been low-key awesome for me. The extra mana it costs has been more than worth it, and I really believe it helps. If anything, people will remove it because it's annoying, and it's fine having them use a removal spell for this.

Well that's good to hear. I'll see how it plays out here soon.

Up to now, I haven't been happy with anything from LotR changeling wise (I think the set is really cool, but not for us) until Shelob was revealed. I mean: a six mana 8/8 with deathtouch and ward 2 that boosts our team is just objectively awesome, right? It makes for fantastic blockers (aside from herself) and attackers getting through is pretty relevant in some lists (I for one run Captain N'ghathrod Grolnok, the Omnivore, Seafloor Oracle, Tovolar, Dire Overlord // Tovolar, the Midnight Scourge and Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator. So depending on the price I'm seriously considering her.

My instinct is that she's not going to be good enough. That being said, I'm a simple man. I just want her on a super crowded board and then I want to cast Widespread Brutality on my Changeling Hero.

By the way, I run both Mistwalker and Avian Changeling since flying is indeed very relevant. Unfortunately, Cairn Wanderer and Mothdust Changeling aren't really good enough in my opinion.

I personally run Mothdust Changeling over Avian Changeling. For bouncing and replaying Changelings 1cc is just so much better than 2cc. Also, Mothdust has a fun synergy with Magda, Brazen Outlaw (not that that comes up a ton).

[materpillar]

Some Reddit spoilers. Flame of Anor gonna be an auto-include I think.

[Avacyn Believer]

Rigerously following this constraint means that an example line of play is tap Ally Encampment for which can only be used to cast an Ally Amoeboid Changeling which only cost because it's a Dragon. Also, because I just cast a Spirit, Elder Pine of Jukai triggers. Then, since a Scarecrow entered the battlefield Reaper King triggers. Now because Amoeboid Changeling is a Knight it has haste because of Khorvath Brightflame. So I'll tap Amoeboid Changeling to turn my Elder Pine of Jukai into all creature types so that when I cast Peer Pressure naming "Praetor" I can steal my opponents Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur since I control more Praetors than he does.

This must be the best deck description ever! Now I have to scour my card collection for changelings and tribal cards because I want to build something like this myself

[materpillar]

As mentioned recently, Ohabi Caleria and Sea Gate Loremaster are out for Flame of Anor and Sauron, the Dark Lord

Anyone else have any game experience recently?

[Falkenbach]

As mentioned recently, Ohabi Caleria and Sea Gate Loremaster are out for Flame of Anor and Sauron, the Dark Lord

Anyone else have any game experience recently?

I added Shelob, Child of Ungoliant but in the game i cast it i had already won with mirror entity overrun.
Why did you add Sauron, the Dark Lord ? I cant seem to see why he earned a spot.

[Tribbles]

Why did you add Sauron, the Dark Lord ? I cant seem to see why he earned a spot.

Because they're a beast, I imagine The "amass Orcs 1" and "Whenever an Army you control deals combat damage" parts are strong, and they're two types not included in materpillar's previous list so the more unique ones the merrier, haha. (I'm still unsure as to how the Ring Tempts You mechanic works...)

I added Shelob, Child of Ungoliant but in the game i cast it i had already won with mirror entity overrun.

Let me know how it works for you because Shelob is my first pick of LTR includes!

As mentioned recently, Ohabi Caleria and Sea Gate Loremaster are out for Flame of Anor and Sauron, the Dark Lord

Those are both strong includes. I'm a fan of adding in more instant-speed interaction and effects. I recently added Ohabi Caleria into my list and untapping on the end step with mana dorks and a Didgeridoo out was nice. The Reach and other effect wasn't too relevant though, is that why you removed them?

Anyone else have any game experience recently?

I had a few games with my list the other day and have identified three main areas of weakness. The first was Second is I've found I lack three important items:

• Ramp and interaction. I usually get a slow start (even with mulligans), putting me behind, but then it tends to snowball into a full board if left alone. I think mostly because my group doesn't run an abundance of interaction but also because I'm seemingly not a threat in the early game. More instant speed answers are required too. I got hosed by a Drana and Linvala when I was relying on my mana Slivers and Katilda to make up for my lack of lands.
• Targets for Magda. I can always get a mana rock, Maskwood Nexus or Morophon, but there's not enough payoff for my treasure subtheme - some bigger more impactful lords or artifacts would be sweet. Or maybe more combos. She's definitely being underutilised as an engine. (My boy Grolnok on the other hand does work)
• Finishers. The Ur-Dragon works well but is a removal super-target. Mirror Entity is the only over obvious one I have. My list keeps changing and I've lost a lot of the focus for sure. I need 2-3 big threats to work towards that can push through unblockable damage or combo for the win...

Here's my current list for reference: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/KFvgROsCwUCIq56PPUfhAw. Its gameplan is to build a board state, maintain it and add value through graveyard recursion, and try to go wide enough to push through enough damage (I guess). Short of hijacking the thread some suggestions would be very appreciated. It admittedly needs a lot of work.

[materpillar]

I added Shelob, Child of Ungoliant but in the game i cast it i had already won with mirror entity overrun.
Why did you add Sauron, the Dark Lord ? I cant seem to see why he earned a spot.

Amass X means "if you control an army put X +1/+1 counters on it, if you don't create a 0/0 army first." Changelings have the creature type "army". Sauron says "whenever an opponent casts a spell put a +1/+1 counter on a Changeling you control" which is really good as it turns random Changelings into huge threats. It also says "whenever a Changeling deals damage to an opponent you may discard your hand and draw 4 cards" which is also really really good. I'm going to be honest I forgot about the ring tempting part but that's also really good upside as you can make stuff like Mistwalker basically unblockable.

All of that is on a 7/6 body with an imposing ward cost. I expect this card to be incredibly strong but we'll see.

A side note Widespread Brutality can use a Changeling Hero to deal 6 lifelink damage to each non-Changeling creature which is an insane life swing. With Shelob, Child of Ungoliant and a Changeling you'll deathtouch damage to kill every non-Changeling and make a food copy (including kill Shelob). Just something to consider.

Those are both strong includes. I'm a fan of adding in more instant-speed interaction and effects. I recently added Ohabi Caleria into my list and untapping on the end step with mana dorks and a Didgeridoo out was nice. The Reach and other effect wasn't too relevant though, is that why you removed them?

I played a game where Sea Gate Loremaster ate Baral's Expertise 3 turns in a row. Meanwhile Ohabi Caleria sat next to him and my opponent didn't even bother bouncing her. It was absolutely miserable. I don't play very often, so cards don't immediately impress they're gone. There's just so much slot competition now. They did not impress at all.

I had a few games with my list the other day and have identified three main areas of weakness. The first was Second is I've found I lack three important items:

• Ramp and interaction. I usually get a slow start (even with mulligans), putting me behind, but then it tends to snowball into a full board if left alone. I think mostly because my group doesn't run an abundance of interaction but also because I'm seemingly not a threat in the early game. More instant speed answers are required too. I got hosed by a Drana and Linvala when I was relying on my mana Slivers and Katilda to make up for my lack of lands.

Drana and Linvala? Ewwwwww. I don't think that's a ramp issue, that card just completely ruins this deck.

[*] Targets for Magda. I can always get a mana rock, Maskwood Nexus or Morophon, but there's not enough payoff for my treasure subtheme - some bigger more impactful lords or artifacts would be sweet. Or maybe more combos. She's definitely being underutilised as an engine. (My boy Grolnok on the other hand does work)

You've got plenty of targets from what I can tell. Don't forget about Reaper King, he's an artifact too! Also, if you find Maskwood Nexus every creature in your deck is immediately a dragon for Magda. Between Maskwood Nexus/Reaper King/Morophon, the Boundless I think you should be fine on search targets. If you really need more targets my favorite dragons are Lathliss, Dragon Queen and Silumgar, the Drifting Death.

[*] Finishers. The Ur-Dragon works well but is a removal super-target. Mirror Entity is the only over obvious one I have. My list keeps changing and I've lost a lot of the focus for sure. I need 2-3 big threats to work towards that can push through unblockable damage or combo for the win...

I'd highly recommend Dragon Tempest. If you go infinite it pumps out infinite damage. It gives The Ur-Dragon haste. It can be used early game to pink off smaller utility creatures or late game for large face damage. Also, super cute with Zask, Skittering Swarmlord to give the Changeling Deathtouch or Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator to go face for treasures.

I've been really happy with The Scarab God. He can do a fair amount of face damage. He's a really sticky/grindy threat. He also has some light graveyard hate built in (and you can find him with a pile of Changelings with The World Tree.

I'm also running Evelyn, the Covetous and Liliana's Contract as card advantage engines that can win the game.

I also used to run Lathliss, Dragon Queen. She was fantastic at making a huge board of dragons.

Here's my current list for reference: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/KFvgROsCwUCIq56PPUfhAw. Its gameplan is to build a board state, maintain it and add value through graveyard recursion, and try to go wide enough to push through enough damage (I guess). Short of hijacking the thread some suggestions would be very appreciated. It admittedly needs a lot of work.

I'd axe Tribal Golem for sure. It's super cute but unless it has some combo I'm not seeing it's a 4/4 flier for 6 basically. Treefolk Harbinger also seems pretty meh.

Seahunter wants to be Skyshroud Poacher. Priest of Titania and Wirewood Savage are tutorable elves.

Your deck is going to have a harder time closing out the game like you said. I'm running 3-4 more infinite combos than you and several more late game bombs. You're basically relying on Mirror Entity. You don't really have any sac engines to really profit off Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. I think you should try to get some more ways to profit off Haakon and Hofri Ghostforge.

Hibernation Sliver is the best Sliver. Just FYI.

[Falkenbach]

I think the most important thing to do is focus your deck.
Etb /graveyard/ tap/untap. / atk damage.. and not mix to much else the deck runs less smoothly.

I had the same thing when i had various effects in my list.
I ultimatly chosen the etb variant as the tap untap variant with urtet relied on a huge boardstate and tons of boardwipe protection. It either went over the top or didnt have enough changelings.

I really prefer dragon tempest effects to shoot or to fight when etb

[Falkenbach]

[/quote]
Amass X means "if you control an army put X +1/+1 counters on it, if you don't create a 0/0 army first." Changelings have the creature type "army". Sauron says "whenever an opponent casts a spell put a +1/+1 counter on a Changeling you control" which is really good as it turns random Changelings into huge threats. It also says "whenever a Changeling deals damage to an opponent you may discard your hand and draw 4 cards" which is also really really good. I'm going to be honest I forgot about the ring tempting part but that's also really good upside as you can make stuff like Mistwalker basically unblockable.

All of that is on a 7/6 body with an imposing ward cost. I expect this card to be incredibly strong but we'll see.

A side note Widespread Brutality can use a Changeling Hero to deal 6 lifelink damage to each non-Changeling creature which is an insane life swing. With Shelob, Child of Ungoliant and a Changeling you'll deathtouch damage to kill every non-Changeling and make a food copy (including kill Shelob). Just something to consider.


[/quote]

yeah Widespread Brutality really seems like a great card when u have the titans (and i love the titans tbh) so i will have to test it out, feeling like i lack boardwipes alot of the time, eventho i usually win with damage pinging effects

[materpillar]

So hatchery sliver seems stupidly good. It just lets you get piles of changeling triggers, you can make multiple so it's resistant to spot removal and it goes infinite with things like Universal Automaton. Slivers are so tight already. I guess I might be swapping Sliver Hivelord for Knight Exemplar to make room?

[Zyren]

So hatchery sliver seems stupidly good. It just lets you get piles of changeling triggers, you can make multiple so it's resistant to spot removal and it goes infinite with things like Universal Automaton. Slivers are so tight already. I guess I might be swapping Sliver Hivelord for Knight Exemplar to make room?

does the replicate cost get reduced by ur-dragon?

[Tribbles]

So hatchery sliver seems stupidly good. It just lets you get piles of changeling triggers, you can make multiple so it's resistant to spot removal and it goes infinite with things like Universal Automaton. Slivers are so tight already. I guess I might be swapping Sliver Hivelord for Knight Exemplar to make room?

Just so I'm clear, The Ur-Dragon reduces Universal Automaton's casting cost by when casting it to . Is its "mana cost" or whilst on the stack(?). I thought its mana cost might be as that's what it is as defined on the card, no? It's not an so should act normally and The Ur-Dragon's reduction effectively is like tapping a free generic mana?

...I think we need a judge Nice card nonetheless. Definitely works with that and Mana Echoes (though what doesn't, let's be honest...)

[materpillar]

does the replicate cost get reduced by ur-dragon?

Just so I'm clear, The Ur-Dragon reduces Universal Automaton's casting cost by when casting it to . Is its "mana cost" or whilst on the stack(?). I thought its mana cost might be as that's what it is as defined on the card, no? It's not an so should act normally and The Ur-Dragon's reduction effectively is like tapping a free generic mana?

...I think we need a judge Nice card nonetheless. Definitely works with that and Mana Echoes (though what doesn't, let's be honest...)

Eeeehhh. I'm pretty sure that's how it works but I guess I'm not positive. I've thrown a question at the rules forum. I'll be a bit lower on it if it doesn't go infinite like that.

While on the stack I believe the Universal Automaton has a mana value of 1 but you're paying the the replicate cost it's not on the stack and should have a cost of 0. I think.

[ISBPathfinder]

@void_nothing we need a judge call on cost reduction and replicate above.

[materpillar]

No, for two reasons. First, The Ur-Dragon's 1 cost reduction only applies once per Dragon spell, and doesn't repeatedly apply to each additional cost for that spell (this is the same reason it makes Verix Bladewing cost 1RR, but doesn't reduce Verix's kicker cost to 2). Second, a spell's mana cost in this instance refers to what's printed on the card, not the cost as modified by outside effects. A combo in this vein that would work would be Memnite, Conspiracy. and Hatchery Sliver.

Rip that idea. I think I'm glad that I was wrong though it would have been an almost impossible to interact with 2 card infinite for 2 mana.

Since it doesn't interact with The Ur-Dragon, hatchery sliver is way way less interesting to me. It's only really exciting with Changelings that only have a CMC of 1 and there's only 3 of those.

[offspring]

We not talkin' bout Rukarumel. Biologist ? That seems amazing and even a contender for Ur's spot at the helm in some builds. It's an auto include for me - or am I missing something here?

[Falkenbach]

I think the card is competing with arcane adaptation /conspiracy type cards and is a slightly less good maskwood nexus. I could see it run in the commandzone tho. The casting cost is pretty intense tho.

There are also two other slivers with etb effects who might need some discussion for masterpillars bounce etb build:

Taunting Sliver and Regal Sliver. Both are 4 mana though.. and are no match for the slivers you already run and the deckbuilding rules of x many of each type maximum

[materpillar]

We not talkin' bout Rukarumel. Biologist ? That seems amazing and even a contender for Ur's spot at the helm in some builds. It's an auto include for me - or am I missing something here?

She seems rather bad to me, she just feels a bit win more to me. wubrg is a lot of mana. The main issue for me is that I have so many different creature types that she is basically only going to be buffing one card, and she's going to be heavily relying on that card to stick around. If you play her and name "elf" and your Skyshroud Poacher eats a Murder she's going to feel awful.

She compares very poorly to The First Sliver and Sliver Hivelord which are her direct competitors in my list.

She does make a fair amount of combos easier to pull off, and I can see her being a fun build around commander as she makes you less reliant on drawing Changelings. I'm open to being persuaded that I'm missing something though.

Regal Sliver is definitely worth a consider, especially for people that run a lot of unbockable/evasion payoffs. Monarch is just really strong. Taunting Sliver could be a decent metagame call too, just not in mine.

[Tribbles]

Don't think I saw it mentioned yet but has anyone picked up or considered Gorbag of Minas Morgul for aristocrat/Haakon-related builds? Drawing or Ramping and getting sac triggers if not immediately dealt with with some form of evasive Changelings conceptually seems quite nice. I've just been looking for tribal-based sac-outlets (that aren't Koma...) and found this.

[Falkenbach]

Don't think I saw it mentioned yet but has anyone picked up or considered Gorbag of Minas Morgul for aristocrat/Haakon-related builds? Drawing or Ramping and getting sac triggers if not immediately dealt with with some form of evasive Changelings conceptually seems quite nice. I've just been looking for tribal-based sac-outlets (that aren't Koma...) and found this.

its a combination of attacking (even dealing combat damage) and sacrifice build wich can be tricky to combine i would think?

[materpillar]

Don't think I saw it mentioned yet but has anyone picked up or considered Gorbag of Minas Morgul for aristocrat/Haakon-related builds? Drawing or Ramping and getting sac triggers if not immediately dealt with with some form of evasive Changelings conceptually seems quite nice. I've just been looking for tribal-based sac-outlets (that aren't Koma...) and found this.

The best tribal sac outlets are Goblin Trashmaster, Goblin Chirurgeon, Skirk Prospector, Sling-Gang Lieutenant and Arms Dealer. There's also Atogatog as a free outlet non-goblin outlet. I'm not sure what non-goblin ones there are.