[MCD] Tree Rexes

[Serenade]

Topiary Stomper
Wayward Swordtooth
I realize these are not identical cards, but they are similar enough green creatures to have one topic.

I finally picked up a Topiary Stomper for Phylath plant-tribal. (TS has a lot of synergy in an otherwise gimmicky deck.) I have used Wayward Swordtooth in ramp before...where it ended up being a glorified blocker since my builds otherwise win with tokens.

I'm considering them in Surrak, the Hunt Caller and just wonder if anyone has more experience with them. Their very green abilities are nice, but does the delay on combat (and lack of evasion and not-scaling body) mean they inevitably get cut?

Thanks!

[Mookie]

I think both Topiary Stomper and Wayward Swordtooth are completely fine cards. As you've called out, the fact that they can't attack or block until later in the game is certainly a downside - at the point in the game where they are active, having a 4/4 or 5/5 is no longer quite as impressive. However, I don't think that is necessarily a big issue.

For Topiary Stomper, the most likely substitution is something like Farhaven Elf or Wood Elves - in that case, a 1/1 isn't going to be doing much more than chump blocking anyway. If you have any synergies (such as Phylath caring about plants, or Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma / Ghalta, Primal Hunger caring about big creatures), then I could definitely see running it over an elf. On the other hand, if you care about it costing GG instead of , perhaps because you're running a 3+ color deck, then it goes down in value.

On the flip side, I don't think I would ever run Wayward Swordtooth for the stats - I would be playing it for the Exploration effect first and foremost. There aren't that many instances of that effect available, and if I'm playing a deck that is interested in playing extra lands, I'm probably looking to run as many of them as possible. The stats are certainly nice when they're relevant, but Wayward Swordtooth is mostly good for its passive effect. Although, again, if I had a deck that cared about big creatures, it certainly goes up in value. That said, not every green deck necessarily wants Exploration - you'll usually need either a lot of card draw or a Crucible of Worlds effect to keep it fueled, so they aren't necessarily better than Rampant Growth or other, more direct ramp effects.

[Sinis]

I think these are really different cards, though they provide roughly the same benefits for a strategy.

1. If you play a lot of Fight cards like Ulvenwald Tracker, or other power-matters cards (like Rishkar's Expertise, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, or Ghalta, Primal Hunger), these cards are really good. They give you some cheap and value-oriented minimum threshold of power that opponents don't feel the need to remove posthaste since they can't immediately threaten life totals. In Surrak 2.0 in particular, having 3+ more power on the board seems like it would make the deck go, but, I would say that the moment you want to give something significant Haste, Surrak will trigger just fine without any outside help. I would say it really depends on what the rest of the deck is doing.

If you're not running any of those cards, the drawbacks for these might not be worth it (but really, I feel like Rishkar's is a staple, and there are plenty of cards like it).

2. The two cards you've referenced are quite different. I'd only run Wayward Swordtooth if I were consistently drawing a ton of cards, or really consistently needed cheap-power matters stuff (basically Selvala). It's very easy to to have WS on the table but no lands in hand because you've not drawn enough cards, or have an over-abundance of extra land plays (like Azusa or Burgeoning, but even just an Exploration or Gaea's Touch will make this happen). WS has to dovetail nicely with some power-matters thing to be worth playing, IMO, or it might just be a dead card.

Topiary Stomper is a fine replacement for Farhaven Elf in almost any deck, IMO. The chump block isn't always crucial, and as I elaborated before, I think there are power-matters staples that just make it worth running if you were already willing to run FE. FE has the nice utility of curving into and being able to carry a Sword of Protection and Value, so it's not super cut and dried for TS being better, but I would generally run TS over FE. Wood Elves, maybe, since it finds non-basic forests and puts them into play untapped. It really depends how many three mana creatures that ramp a land you're running, and again, what the rest of the deck is doing.

[PrimevalCommander]

Wayward Swordtooth is a good card if you need more explorations. That is what I got mine for before Azusa, Lost but Seeking got reprinted a few times. Now it got replaced since I picked up an Azusa. If you have one, and want extra land drops, I'd be running it. This effect is getting more common, so I'm not needing 5+ of this effect for my lands deck right now.

Topiary Stomper has benefits over Farhaven Elf or Yavimaya Granger for creature ramp in decks that can hit on turn 3 reliably. But you either need to care about the body, or care about the higher power. It is a better blocker mid-late game compared to fragile elves. But the double green is noticeable when you wan to play it on curve with more colors. I picked up 2 foil copies just because 3 mv creatures that actually ramp are a bit hard to find. Though my primary green decks are 3 color so they have not made it into any decks yet. I don't want to get into a situation where I can't play my ramp dude on 3 because I don't have the colors.

Wood Elves is S-tier creature ramp and I would not run Stomper over Wood Elves outside of tribal/flavor reasons. Getting non-basic forest is winning

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Wood Elves is S-tier creature ramp and I would not run Stomper over Wood Elves outside of tribal/flavor reasons. Getting non-basic forest is winning

Nonbasic and usually untapped. Wood elves forever!

[Crazy Monkey]

Both of these pull double-duty in decks that want to ramp while putting power on the battlefield. Ghalta, Primal Hunger is the deck that I am thinking about, where the dinosaur tribe can be surprising relevant. Reducing cost by 4 or 5 while ramping helps land the 12/12 commander within a turn or two. Outside of that case, they're nice backup to the more common (better) ramp from Azusa or wood elves, but rarely does their power become important in my experience.

[hyalopterouslemur]

Wood Elves is S-tier creature ramp and I would not run Stomper over Wood Elves outside of tribal/flavor reasons. Getting non-basic forest is winning

Nonbasic and usually untapped. Wood elves forever!

Indeed. If you for some reason want to search specifically for a basic, Farhaven Elf edges out over Stomper at 2g versus 1gg, and it can attack and block. There's also Sakura-Tribe Elder.

And there are always ramp sorceries. Three Visits, Farseek, and Nature's Lore at 1g, If you have snow-covered lands, Into the North exists. Kodama's Reach/Cultivate at 2g, Skyshroud Claim at 2gg but you get two nonbasic forests untapped. Next up is Hour of Promise, which can grab any two lands at 4g. If you control three or more deserts, you get a couple zombie tokens. Just kidding. No one searches for deserts.

[PrimevalCommander]

On the flip side, I don't think I would ever run Wayward Swordtooth for the stats - I would be playing it for the Exploration effect first and foremost. There aren't that many instances of that effect available, and if I'm playing a deck that is interested in playing extra lands, I'm probably looking to run as many of them as possible. The stats are certainly nice when they're relevant, but Wayward Swordtooth is mostly good for its passive effect.

Out of curiosity, since I have decks that may play each of these creatures, I went looking at the number of redundancy for each of these effects.

Wayward Swordtooth: 6 cards in mono-green that grant additional land drops every turn. 3 more in 2 color The Gitrog Monster , Mina and Denn, Wildborn, and Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait. Song of Creation in 3 color.

Topiary Stomper: While there are a variety of creatures that will ramp you lands, the selection at 3 mana or less is a bit slim. Though I didn't put a mana value cap on the extra land drops, there are only about 7-8 creatures that will ramp you for 3 mana or less without additional hoops. And Topiary Stomper is one of the cleaner ways for a creature to ramp (EtB), instead of sacrifice to activate, or death trigger. I may need to look into a couple more of the cheaper guys for Karador, Ghost Chieftain, as that is one of the places I initially thought of for T.Stomp.

[Mookie]

@PrimevalCommander - Ha, interesting to see those numbers - they're closer than I would have expected. I suspect my perception may be skewed a bit by prices - apart from Druid Class, the cheapest Exploration effect looks to be Azusa, Lost but Seeking at $7, with the others being around $10-$20 unless you're willing to play the symmetric Ghirapur Orrery or Rites of Flourishing. On the flip side, Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves, and Springbloom Druid are all dirt cheap (<$1). Presumably this is because extra land drops are an effect that usually shows up at rare, while basic ramp shows up more at common.

I'll also call out that direct ramp creatures are easier to replace with spells like Cultivate / Rampant Growth, of which there are many options. You technically could replace extra land drop cards with stuff like Explore and Summer Bloom, but, again, there are fewer options, and they function very different in practice.

[PrimevalCommander]

Azusa, Lost but Seeking, second cheapest and probably first or second best

Agree with all above points. There are not very many ramp-dudes that are over $2, which makes having all the better ones easy if you want them. Extra land drops can cost a lot of $$, which makes cards like Druid Class quite attractive. Though there is enough redundancy now to probably fill out most land decks with as many land drops as they need. They have been filling out that effect a lot recently.

Now Crucible of Worlds, there's something we need another 1-2 clones of for redundancy. I think only 3 of this effect exist. And one is on a 6 mv elemental. I need another Ramunap Excavator at , make it a 3/3 vanilla at that point for all I care.

[hyalopterouslemur]

It should be noted that playing additional lands is different from searching for lands.

After a while, playing additional lands becomes useless unless you either 1) are drawing a ton of cards, 2) have Crucible of Worlds or Ramunap Excavator and (fetches, Strip Mine, Glacial Chasm, etc.), 3) are playing karoos, or 4) are holding MLD and have been playing your hand accordingly.