Questions regarding Hashaton, Scarab's Fist and transforming creatures.
There's a bunch of them, so I'm adding numbers to keep things organized.
Since March of the Machine introduced Incubator tokens, tokens can be double-faced and can transform.
The MOM rules article says this also applies to tokens that are copies of double-faced permanents with transform abilities.
The rules (712.9) refer to "transforming tokens" but don't define what that actually means.
1.)
If Hashaton's ability makes a token copy of a creature with a transform ability, can that token transform?
ie. Lone Rider // It That Rides as One.
2.)
If yes, when that token transforms, does the back side retain the changes to its color, type, and power/toughness from Hashaton's ability?
ie. would Elusive Tormentor // Insidious Mist be a 4/4 black Zombie on the back too?
3.)
How does that layer with Hanweir Militia Captain // Westvale Cult Leader's power/toughness defining ability?
4.)
And, if the token would transform into a non-creature, does Hashaton's ability still make it a 4/4 black Zombie?
ie. Is Jacob Hauken, Inspector // Hauken's Insight still a creature after transforming?
Hashaton and Transforming Creatures
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Captain, I object! - Posts: 2415
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Accepted Answer
1.) Yes, 707.8a If an effect creates a token that is a copy of a transforming permanent or a transforming
double-faced card not on the battlefield, the resulting token is a transforming token that has both
a front face and a back face. The characteristics of each face are determined by the copiable
values of the same face of the permanent it is a copy of, as modified by any other copy effects
that apply to that permanent. If the token is a copy of a transforming permanent with its back
face up, the token enters the battlefield with its back face up. This rule does not apply to tokens
that are created with their own set of characteristics and enter the battlefield as a copy of a
transforming permanent due to a replacement effect.
2.) It will be a 4/4 black Zombie on both sides.
3.) When a copy sets a characteristic, it doesn't copy relevant Characteristic Defining Abilities.
4.) Hashaton doesn't make it a creature. If it isn't a creature, it won't have the creature-specific characteristics.
Go to full postdouble-faced card not on the battlefield, the resulting token is a transforming token that has both
a front face and a back face. The characteristics of each face are determined by the copiable
values of the same face of the permanent it is a copy of, as modified by any other copy effects
that apply to that permanent. If the token is a copy of a transforming permanent with its back
face up, the token enters the battlefield with its back face up. This rule does not apply to tokens
that are created with their own set of characteristics and enter the battlefield as a copy of a
transforming permanent due to a replacement effect.
2.) It will be a 4/4 black Zombie on both sides.
3.) When a copy sets a characteristic, it doesn't copy relevant Characteristic Defining Abilities.
4.) Hashaton doesn't make it a creature. If it isn't a creature, it won't have the creature-specific characteristics.
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- Posts: 362
- Joined: 6 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
1.) Yes, 707.8a If an effect creates a token that is a copy of a transforming permanent or a transforming
double-faced card not on the battlefield, the resulting token is a transforming token that has both
a front face and a back face. The characteristics of each face are determined by the copiable
values of the same face of the permanent it is a copy of, as modified by any other copy effects
that apply to that permanent. If the token is a copy of a transforming permanent with its back
face up, the token enters the battlefield with its back face up. This rule does not apply to tokens
that are created with their own set of characteristics and enter the battlefield as a copy of a
transforming permanent due to a replacement effect.
2.) It will be a 4/4 black Zombie on both sides.
3.) When a copy sets a characteristic, it doesn't copy relevant Characteristic Defining Abilities.
4.) Hashaton doesn't make it a creature. If it isn't a creature, it won't have the creature-specific characteristics.
double-faced card not on the battlefield, the resulting token is a transforming token that has both
a front face and a back face. The characteristics of each face are determined by the copiable
values of the same face of the permanent it is a copy of, as modified by any other copy effects
that apply to that permanent. If the token is a copy of a transforming permanent with its back
face up, the token enters the battlefield with its back face up. This rule does not apply to tokens
that are created with their own set of characteristics and enter the battlefield as a copy of a
transforming permanent due to a replacement effect.
2.) It will be a 4/4 black Zombie on both sides.
3.) When a copy sets a characteristic, it doesn't copy relevant Characteristic Defining Abilities.
4.) Hashaton doesn't make it a creature. If it isn't a creature, it won't have the creature-specific characteristics.
