Brash Taunter + Martyrdom

[illakunsaa]

In 1v1 game opponent has Brash Taunter , casts martyrdom targeting it and chooses to redirect the next 1000 dmg coming to me.

What happens if taunter gets damaged?

[user_938036]

A pointless cycle of damage.

Taunter is damaged--> Its ability damages you--->Ability from Martyrdom redirects damage to Taunter(repeat until activations from martyrdom are consumed.)

[illakunsaa]

A pointless cycle of damage.

Taunter is damaged--> Its ability damages you--->Ability from Martyrdom redirects damage to Taunter(repeat until activations from martyrdom are consumed.)

Thx

I have another question.

I control taunter and opponent uses a theft effect on taunter but before it resolves I cast martyrdom.

Can I some how survive?

If not would having more players in game help?

Do any damage modifiers change the damage in any scenario?

[user_938036]

Survive? Do you only have 1 health in this situation? One damage can consume all instances of Martyrdom redirections. But it won't keep dealing damage after those instances are consumed. Multiple players and Damage modifiers can significantly change the scenario, but the scenario is poorly defined as is.

How is damage being dealt to the taunter? How much damage? What are player lifetotals if you're expecting people to die?

[illakunsaa]

I was in a game I had Taunter and opponent casted some spell that that gained control of all creatures(insurrection?). I responded with Martydom on Taunter and activated it but only to "save" me and my stuff.

Opponent decided not to damage Taunter in any way to avoid figuring out how the rules work. I think everyone would have died in the following attack.

Lets assume there is 4 players and everyone has 10 life and the attacking opponent has 30 power of 1/1s (one is my Taunter).

Is there a way to survive this scenario?

[user_938036]

Unfortunately, there is no way to survive this. Each player is dealt 10 combat damage. The two other players simply die. Your 10 damage is redirected to Taunter. Taunter triggers to deal 10 damage to you, which is redirected to Taunter. This repeats until the Martyrdom redirects are used up, and you take the 10 damage, dying.

Since you asked about it earlier, I'll explain how damage doublers work with Taunter and Martyrdom. Let's say Furnace of Rath is in play. There are a number of redirect effects from Martyrdom. Taunter is dealt 2 damage. Taunter deals 4 damage to you, which is redirected to Taunter. It now deals 8 damage to you, that's redirected. The damage from Taunter doubles each time until the redirect effect is used up. In this way the loop isn't pointless as one damage rapidly builds to a much larger amount of damage.

[illakunsaa]

What if I choose to redirect all 30 dmg not just the the damage coming to me?

[Jellybean Warlock]

Each individual creature damage would deal 1 damage to the taunter, no chance of survival

[user_938036]

What if I choose to redirect all 30 dmg not just the the damage coming to me?

This doesn't work either. Lets break it down.

You set up 10 redirect damage for each player. You can do more, but it doesn't matter in the end.
Each player is attacked with 10 1/1s. 30 damage is redirected to Brash Taunter. Brash Taunter triggers to deal 30 damage to an opponent(not you). The current controller of Brash Taunter uses Martyrdom's ability to set up 20 damage worth of redirect. 10 damage kills the player, and 20 damage is redirected to Brash Taunter. Brash Taunter Deals 20 damage to the other player who isn't you. 10 damage of redirection is set up. 10 damage kills player and Brash Taunter triggers to deal 10 damage to you. You die from damage.

You can set up more layers of redirection, but in the end, the damage can be juggled to use them all up.

[illakunsaa]

I thought only I could activate martyrdom because it says " only you may activate this ability"?

[user_938036]

I read that card at least 10 times and missed that effect was outside of quotes.

So, you can save two players. You set up enough redirect effects to save each player. Making 30 damage hit taunter and it deals 30 damage to an opponent. You can keep putting up 30 damage worth of shields to save whichever player is being targeted. This is an infinite loop where you are actively making choices to continue the loop. Meaning you have to make the choice not to continue the loop. So you have to redirect less than 30 damage. You can't quite control how much damage is dealt to each player, so it's in your best interest to simply let all 30 be dealt to one of your opponents.

[illakunsaa]

If the Taunter controller is the active player (it's his turn) and Taunter must target me or other two opponents can't I basically cycle through all my options untill I get a result I want? Eg. I take 5 dmg, one opponent takes 0 dmg and last one takes 25 dmg.

[user_938036]

If the Taunter controller is the active player (it's his turn) and Taunter must target me or other two opponents can't I basically cycle through all my options untill I get a result I want? Eg. I take 5 dmg, one opponent takes 0 dmg and last one takes 25 dmg.

Here's the issue with that. You can't control your opponent. So, unless they offer the scenario you want, it won't end up that way. The attacking player says they target you with 30 damage. You say you create 30 redirect effects. This is a loop that accomplishes nothing, so the attacking player must make an alternative choice. They now target defending player A with 30 damage. You say you create 25 redirect triggers. They now target you with 25 damage. You redirect it again. They go back to defending player A. Technically, you are allowed to have only 1 damage go through, but if you have anything short of lethal go through, a judge should give you an infraction as you had the option of doing this already and are intentionally stalling the game. If you try and shield Defending player A with 30 redirect effects a judge would probably give you a stalling infraction as well.

[illakunsaa]

I looked at "looping" rules and I found this:

729.3. Sometimes a loop can be fragmented, meaning that each player involved in the loop performs an independent action that results in the same game state being reached multiple times. If that happens, the active player (or, if the active player is not involved in the loop, the first player in turn order who is involved) must then make a different game choice so the loop does not continue.
Example: In a two-player game, the active player controls a creature with the ability "{0}: [This creature] gains flying," the nonactive player controls a permanent with the ability "{0}: Target creature loses flying," and nothing in the game cares how many times an ability has been activated. Say the active player activates his creature's ability, it resolves, then the nonactive player activates her permanent's ability targeting that creature, and it resolves. This returns the game to a game state it was at before. The active player must make a different game choice (in other words, anything other than activating that creature's ability again). The creature doesn't have flying. Note that the nonactive player could have prevented the fragmented loop simply by not activating her permanent's ability, in which case the creature would have had flying. The nonactive player always has the final choice and is therefore able to determine whether the creature has flying.

I feel like Tauter controller needs to choose player B (the last player) at some point.