Thought Experiment: No Supplemental Set Commander

[Mookie]

One of my recent complaints with Magic is that there is a ton of new product coming out. 4x Standard sets per year, plus Commander precons, 40k precons, Unfinity, Commander Legends, Modern Horizons... and probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting, plus Secret Lair and set booster-exclusive cards. As a result, there are more new cards coming out than I can even find time or space to test in my decks. So, a thought occurred to me: what would happen if I were to ignore all the supplemental sets, and remove all those cards from my decks?

A brief look at my decks suggested that most of them have 6-12 supplemental set cards*, which is in the realm of feasibility - my decks would be losing a bit of power, but not too much.

Would you be interested in an alternate Commander meta without supplemental set cards?
Would you be interested in trying this out, even if the rest of your meta didn't hold to this restriction?
What cards would you miss?
What cards would be you glad to see gone?

Personally, I think the biggest loss is probably the various White card advantage / ramp cards we've been getting recently (Aerial Extortionist, Smuggler's Share, etc). On the flip side, I'd be sort of glad to see Dockside Extortionist and Fierce Guardianship gone.

*note

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interestingly, Command Tower|eld and Arcane Signet|eld were both in Throne of Eldraine (in the Brawl precons), and thus arguably still allowed in this format. Unfortunately, that would also leave Korvold, Fae-Cursed King and Chulane, Teller of Tales in the format, so... a bit of a mixed bag.

[Treamayne]

Well, I guess my first question is how would you define supplemental set? Everything that wasn't (at one point) standard/type 1/1.5/2 legal? Do you also exclude things from Precon-only Standard-set addendums (e. g. Planeswalker deck only from Guilds of Ravnica; Commander deck only from Ikoria)? Do you include/exclude reprint sets like Modern/Vintage Masters? Only exclude the cards exclusive to those reprint sets? Etc. et al.

[pokken]

The problem with trying to eliminate commander specific cards is they've started printing them in standard like crazy now.

[PrimevalCommander]

Just thinking about it real quick, I'd loose 1/2 of my commanders if I do this. Would their be exceptions for commanders?
Otherwise, I would probably try it if I could get a few others involved. I wouldn't bother with it if the rest of the table didn't restrict along with me.

Cards I would miss
Corpse Augur
Chaos Warp
Scavenging Ooze
Training Center and the rest (commander legends and conspiracy)
enemy Talismans (modern horizons)
Most of my commanders
Teferi's protection (NOT)
Akroma's Will, but not Jeska's Will
Grand Crescendo

[Mookie]

Well, I guess my first question is how would you define supplemental set? Everything that wasn't (at one point) standard/type 1/1.5/2 legal? Do you also exclude things from Precon-only Standard-set addendums (e. g. Planeswalker deck only from Guilds of Ravnica; Commander deck only from Ikoria)? Do you include/exclude reprint sets like Modern/Vintage Masters? Only exclude the cards exclusive to those reprint sets? Etc. et al.

My personal definition would be 'I can only play cards that were at some point in time legal in Standard'. Or the equivalent (type 2) for prior to it being called Standard. Reprint sets wouldn't affect legality, but a reprint into Standard would (i.e. Scavenging Ooze|m21). The normal Commander banlist would otherwise apply.

For context, part of my reason for this thinking is that Modern Horizons and Commander Legends have brought a bunch of very powerful cards to the format and caused a soft rotation to otherwise eternal formats by pushing out older, lower-power cards. Limiting things to cards that were at some point Standard-legal theoretically puts a cap on that power level, or at least reduces the rate of power creep. (yes, I recognize there have been plenty of broken cards printed into Standard - the other part of my thinking is the previously-mentioned 'there are too many sets coming out').

I could go either way on making an exception for commanders. I may try to hold to it going forwards for the 99, it's significantly more difficult (if not outright impossible) to replace a commander without requiring a complete rebuild. This is ultimately a personal restriction, so nailing down a precise ruleset seems somewhat superfluous, and if I would be able to get more people to do this with me by loosening the restriction on the commander, I would happily do so.

[Treamayne]

My personal definition would be 'I can only play cards that were at some point in time legal in Standard'. Or the equivalent (type 2) for prior to it being called Standard.

If it is specifically Type 2/Standard, then you also remove everything before Revised and The Dark (since when Type 2 was created as separate from Type 1, the first Type 2 legal sets were Revised, Dark, Fallen Empires (with all Ante cards banned).

I could go either way on making an exception for commanders. I may try to hold to it going forwards for the 99, it's significantly more difficult (if not outright impossible) to replace a commander without requiring a complete rebuild. This is ultimately a personal restriction, so nailing down a precise ruleset seems somewhat superfluous, and if I would be able to get more people to do this with me by loosening the restriction on the commander, I would happily do so.

If you write it up in Variant Formats (like Rainbow Stairwell and Star) you can easily say "this is the base variant" and have a section "Common playgroup house rules;" the same way original Star used "Blocking en Passant" but in the write up it mentions that playgroups should agree amongst themselves if thy want that element or not.

[BaronCappuccino]

It's a neat idea. My only commander deck is a background pairing from the recent Baldur's Gate set, and I wouldn't be surprised if I found out 20 or so cards in the 99 fell outside the rules, so I'd have to brew a deck from scratch, but I definitely feel a distinct difference when I select a card for a deck that was intended for standard/modern/legacy and ended up in Commander by happenstance vs a card that was designed specifically for Commander. I have some nostalgia for the days when a commander card was defined as too high a CMC for 60 card constructed.

[Mookie]

If it is specifically Type 2/Standard, then you also remove everything before Revised and The Dark (since when Type 2 was created as separate from Type 1, the first Type 2 legal sets were Revised, Dark, Fallen Empires (with all Ante cards banned).

For reference, one of the things that inspired this thought experiment is the fan-created Heritage format, which allows all normal (Standard-legal) expansions and core sets, but not supplemental sets. That does include Alpha/Beta/Revised/The Dark/etc. If I were to type up an actual ruleset, it would be using that list of sets, with an optional houserule for allowing non-Heritage-legal commanders.

[Sinis]

I think @pokken has the right of it.

Basically, stuff in Standard is being designed for EDH, or there wouldn't be a billion legendary creatures every set. I would venture that Garth One-Eye -- an ancillary product card -- is from the same design philosophy/team as Lagomos, Hand of Hatred (from a currently standard legal expansion).

Setting one of them aside is entirely arbitrary, though if you want to draw lines in the sand somewhere, that's as good a place as any.

[onering]

@Sinis

I think his main contention is that this sub format would combat the "too much product" problem that has cropped up over the past couple years. Yes, there are commander targeted cards getting printed in high numbers in standard legal sets, but that doesn't change the fact that you would still only have to keep track of four sets a year. The secondary consideration of combating power creep is really just a side effect. Power creep will still happen, it just won't happen as quickly because there will be fewer new cards entering the format every year, and so fewer opportunities to push out old cards (not to mention that the initial purge of all supplemental sets would kick out a bunch of recent staples right off the bat).

[Mookie]

Yeah, @onering has it right. There have been EDH-focused cards printed in Standard sets, and eternal-focused cards in Commander decks, so drawing any sort of line based on 'design intent' is a fool's errand.

That said, something else I'll call out is that supplemental sets bring a ton of intentional power creep. Standard has rotation, which means that WotC can keep its power level relatively flat and still have new cards be relevant. On the flip side, a lack of rotation means in eternal formats, it becomes much more difficult for new cards to be relevant - instead of competing with the 1,500 or so cards in Standard, they need to compete with 10x that amount in Modern, or even more for Legacy or Commander. As a result, if WotC wants to print new cards to be relevant in an eternal format (and the existence of Modern Horizons and Commander Legends strongly suggests they do), they pretty much have to introduce power creep for those cards to stand out. That's how we end up with stuff like Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer and Dockside Extortionist.

So, not only are we getting more new cards, but we're also getting cards at a higher power level. The net effect is a soft rotation as newer, more powerful cards push out older, weaker cards. To be clear, rotation isn't necessarily a bad thing - it keeps formats fresh and interesting, and means that there will always be new experiences... but that isn't why I come to EDH. I like building decks, mastering them, and having them be relevant forever. EDH is designed to be a high-variance format - 100-card singleton plus everyone having their own set of decks is already more than sufficient to stop it from ever becoming stale. Instead, it feels like WotC is forcing EDH to be like Standard, where you're forced to swap out half of the cards in your deck every year if you want to stay relevant. That may be good for WotC's bottom line... but personally, I find it exhausting.

[3drinks]

This is too hard of a metric to truly offer a defining line on. Rather, you'll find a better, more relaxed environment if you set, say, Modern-legal commander within very specific boundaries;

8ED and forward.
MRD and forward.
CMD sets.

Edric, Derevi, Yuriko banned as commander, non-land permanents that generate more mana than their mv unconditionally.

You eliminate the egregiously under costed tutours, fast mana, and a lot of the hard locks capable with old cards that literally no one will miss.

[Jemolk]

This is too hard of a metric to truly offer a defining line on. Rather, you'll find a better, more relaxed environment if you set, say, Modern-legal commander within very specific boundaries;

8ED and forward.
MRD and forward.
CMD sets.

Edric, Derevi, Yuriko banned as commander, non-land permanents that generate more mana than their mv unconditionally.

You eliminate the egregiously under costed tutours, fast mana, and a lot of the hard locks capable with old cards that literally no one will miss.

You'd also eliminate all the fun nonsense that old cards can provide. I'd vastly prefer culling all supplemental sets to culling old sets, and I'm not very inclined to cull supplemental sets at all. A version of commander that gets rid of boring crap like Arcane Signet, but at the cost of eliminating weird and fun stuff like Ayula, Queen Among Bears? Not a huge fan. A version of commander that gets rid of stuff everyone in their right mind would avoid anyway, plus some fast mana and undercosted tutors, at the expense of eliminating the absolutely bizarre stuff that no one in their right mind would have a problem with, like Baton of Morale or Jabari's Banner? Aw hell no. Especially not when it keeps Questing Beast and all the other modern walls of text.

You want a relaxed environment, you have to target specifically a relaxed environment. I don't think any set of rules will universally create one. You can be a tryhard under any ruleset. You need to target the social environment instead. Emphasize that the prizes are primarily people thinking your deck is cool. Avoid any external incentive to "win" in any sense of the word, so that the reason to try to win once you're in the game is just because it's rewarding in itself to do well. Accomplish that, and you'll get an environment where people moderate their own power levels to create an experience along the lines of what is agreed on as fun. Don't, and no ruleset in the world could stop the tryhards.

Now, if you just don't want to have to devote mental energy to processing the billion and a half new cards every month (exaggerated for effect, but still!), as Mookie has indicated, then culling supplemental sets is a pretty good way of doing that.

[ISBPathfinder]

I think its fine to do set limitations on yourself but you won't ever get any level of widespread acceptance of something like this in the commander community. Offshoot restrictions for commander have just never stuck around or made any widespread impact. Every now and then you will see a flash in the pan like tiny leaders but they usually die very quickly.

[RxPhantom]

I just can't remember what's what anymore. I've complained about this in the off-topic thread, but the deluge of product has left me unaware of what cards are from the booster set or the Commander decks. Or maybe they're the random set booster exclusive cards? Or collector boosters? I have no idea anymore and I'm tired of trying to figure it out.

[Sinis]

@Sinis

I think his main contention is that this sub format would combat the "too much product" problem that has cropped up over the past couple years. Yes, there are commander targeted cards getting printed in high numbers in standard legal sets, but that doesn't change the fact that you would still only have to keep track of four sets a year. The secondary consideration of combating power creep is really just a side effect. Power creep will still happen, it just won't happen as quickly because there will be fewer new cards entering the format every year, and so fewer opportunities to push out old cards (not to mention that the initial purge of all supplemental sets would kick out a bunch of recent staples right off the bat).

I don't disagree, fwiw.

I'm only pointing out that it's arbitrary; that's not a bad thing, IMO.