Thrasios and Tormod's Field of the Dead

[pokken]

Definitely going to keep an eye on how this list will evolve.

If you have any thoughts on anything I've missed, especially recent cards, don't be shy Or anything you have questions about. lots of questionable choices tbh.

[PrimevalCommander]

Good looking list. Is Reshape the Earth really all that? I see it in several lands lists but gosh the mana cost seems high. Is it mainly for Filed of the Dead or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle triggers? I'm playing Titania, Protector of Argoth without Field of the Dead so I am not seeing the appeal outside of Field.

Great to see Sword of Forge and Frontier. I like that sword a lot.
Summary Dismissal looks a bit expensive in the counter spell suite. If I'm paying 4 mana, I have gotten a LOT of mileage out of Insidious Will though it might just be a pet cart of mine because I like to steal spot removal and draw spells. Otherwise that could be a Pact of Negation, An Offer You Can't Refuse or something much cheaper.

Your creature count is tight, but I'll throw out Sylvan Safekeeper for protection and Scute Swarm for the swarm. Though that might be redundant with Field. It does grow fast. Apologies if these have been mentioned in the thread. Have you tried Nissa, Vital Force before? Takes a little protecting, but it animates a 5/5 blocker which is one of the biggest creatures a walker can make on a +1 while still advancing to ultimate, and only needs 1 turn cycle for the draw emblem.

[pokken]

Is Reshape the Earth really all that? I see it in several lands lists but gosh the mana cost seems high.

Interestingly I have run into a crapload of times where Titania's Command would have outperformed it.

Reshape the Earth definitely is there for "I make field and 9 zombies right now, and then I untap, make thespian stage into a field and crack my 8 fetches for another 16 zombies". But...it's been slow, and getting to 9 mana is harder than it seems.

I used to have Simic Growth Chamber so I could get Vesuva and bounce it to make another field too, which was pretty cool, but again very slow.

Fundamentally I think Scapeshift gets the job done, and maybe it'd be better to add Mystical Tutor for Scapeshift or something. Reshape is so, so damn slow. And it putting the lands in tapped is so bad.

Hell, Pir's Whim even Expedition Map might be better.

Thanks for making me think on this. I really am not sure, it's such a stupid bomb but it's also slow as hell and often requires another turn to get there because of the mana cost.

Summary Dismissal looks a bit expensive in the counter spell suite. If I'm paying 4 mana, I have gotten a LOT of mileage out of Insidious Will though it might just be a pet cart of mine because I like to steal spot removal and draw spells. Otherwise that could be a Pact of Negation, An Offer You Can't Refuse or something much cheaper.

This is a good question. I have a small "theme" of the counter suite I am sticking to in this deck (mostly) which is that counters must be able to answer Bojuka Bog and Wasteland. I am going to be adding Tale's End relatively soon (as soon as I find one). I am running Fierce Guardianship and Cryptic Command but my excuse for that is I want one free counterspell to keep people honest, and Cryptic Command is a win condition (you can loop it with Mystic Sanctuary to forever fog people which is hilarious :D

Summary Dismissal is one I have a soft spot for. It's expensive, but man, does it do work. Being able to get both the spell and the trigger is just :chefskiss:

I think if Insidious Will hit Bojuka Bog I would run it. I too really like that card flexible modal spells that are also massive gotchas are fun.

Your creature count is tight, but I'll throw out Sylvan Safekeeper for protection and Scute Swarm for the swarm. Though that might be redundant with Field. It does grow fast. Apologies if these have been mentioned in the thread. Have you tried Nissa, Vital Force before? Takes a little protecting, but it animates a 5/5 blocker which is one of the biggest creatures a walker can make on a +1 while still advancing to ultimate, and only needs 1 turn cycle for the draw emblem.

Scute Swarm is always on my list as a maybe; it's almost so easy mode with lands decks I try not to run it. Right now this deck is basically zombie tribal for its wins (Field of the Dead or Tormod, the Desecrator are the only things that can actually win the game). Well, The Scarab God can win if people put busted stuff in their graveyards I guess :D My basic line of thinking is if people start hosing my field enough I might add some Scute Swarm back in. For now I'm trying to avoid needing more of these effects by protecting field.

Nissa, Vital Force is a really good card and I've run it in The Gitrog Monster a lot. It was always stupid good. I do really like the -1's synergy with Tormod, the Desecrator too tbh. I will think hard on this one. the emblem is really, really good. I like that it's not a creature.

re: Sylvan Safekeeper
Having another sac outlet for lands might be enough to let me play that as a gameplan; I've really been wanting to try Dakmor Salvage Drownyard Temple package, with Squandered Resources (which was previously pretty good in the deck, just sometimes a dud because of the shortage of synergy).

I tend to try to avoid discouraging interaction. I think the biggest problem with safekeeper is it can't protect the actual commander of the deck, Field of the Dead. :D Thrasios, Triton Hero is kind of a scarecrow tbh.

But y'know, as I think on it, maybe having a sac outlet (esp. one I could Chord of Calling for on the cheap) might be good enough to protect field?? I mean, what am I scared of, it being Blatant Thievery'd? I guess that's the main thing, since I can always loam it back otherwise.

What I really wish was there was another sac outlet for lands that either made lands or made mana.

I also wish I could remember that loaming Tranquil Thicket with Tormod, the Desecrator is a viable gameplan. Somehow I always forget the cycling lands lately.

[duducrash]

Have you considered Blossoming Tortoise ? It always does work for me and it would fuel Field of the Dead and trigger Tormod, the Desecrator

[pokken]

Have you considered Blossoming Tortoise ? It always does work for me and it would fuel Field of the Dead and trigger Tormod, the Desecrator

I in fact have a Blossoming Tortoise in my box ready to try to slot in next time I work on the deck :D It suffers from being a creature but it also is really efficient with what the deck wants to do, acting as another Crucible of Worlds + Exploration.

(I also love how it works with Thespian's Stage and Volrath's Stronghold and such. really cute. tort makes me think about Creeping Tar Pit lol :D)

oh man it even works with Blast Zone. super cool.

[BlackbirdPlaysMTG]

If you have any thoughts on anything I've missed, especially recent cards, don't be shy Or anything you have questions about. lots of questionable choices tbh.

It's been a while since I have played a lands deck ...

Earlier in the thread I saw you were somewhat hesitant to include Azusa, Lost but Seeking (and I suppose the same goes for Ramunap Excavator?), but I think she would be a good fit. One creature I would recommend over Azusa in this deck is Oracle of Mul Daya though. I think he would fit right in. You run 47 lands, so he already has a good base chance of being able to play lands from the top. You are also running fetches and quite a few tutors, so the top gets reset reasonably often while he is in play. Slam dunk that shaman into the list, he's worth the four mana - just like Case of the Locked Hothouse, which you are already running.

Also, someone said that it might be nice to have a secondary drawing engine alongside Thrasios. You could add boring power staples like Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora, but maybe Seer's Sundial and/or Tireless Tracker are the better fit power level/theme-wise? They synergise with fetches and extra land drops.

[pokken]

I managed to squeeze tortoise in by just cutting Reshape the Earth which is way too expensive and less fun. :D

The issue I find with azusa effects is they require a second piece to be good (loam or whatever). I do like Oracle better and would play it first.

That said, y'all should try Druid Class -- it's deceptively good. Low key, lifegain, doesn't die to a gentle breeze.

[pokken]

Got a nice game in this deck tonight wherein i got to see Blossoming Tortoise and Insidious Roots.

I ramped into Tort with a green only hand off the back of Green Sun's Zenith for arbor, then went absolutely ham with it. The Volrath's Stronghold plus Tormod, the Desecrator with the cost reduction actually generated quite a few zombies, plus tort, plus eventually Insidious Roots. roots was real good for mana generation off zombies, but due to my lower creature count did not make that many insects (though it would have with Bloodghast had I not been under a Rule of Law all game).

The deck really humming now. Only glaring issue I see is Finale of Devastation didn't close it out as much as it should have because I just do not have any really good fetches for it.

The game ended with a massive series of Thrasios, Triton Hero activations off tokens, then Blast Zone killing Rule of Law (HEY THAT CARD FINALLY DID SOMETHING!) and then I went off with Seasons Past and Demonic Tutor; DT for Phyrexian Altar, infinite mana, ggs.

The 4 ramp off of Blossoming Tortoise and then the explosive +10 or so mana off of Insidious Roots and my zombie tokens really helped.

TODO: Fish out the right tokens for this deck!

[pokken]

So I'm working on tuning this deck down just a little; can anyone think of any sacrifice outlets akin to Evolutionary Leap? I feel like I'd like...maybe one more solid enchantment sac outlet that I can use to replace the powerhouse altars, as I retune the mana generation to include more Cryptolith Rite and Song of Freyalise and less Phyrexian Altar. I'm intending on cutting any open sac outlet combos.

There're a lot of subtle tweaks I need to get to to make this happen, probably at the very least adding Scute Swarm so I have a third alternative to Field of the Dead and Tormod, the Desecrator as token enablers. People are getting keen on killing Field of the Dead :D and this deck really cannot win without a token maker (outside of being able to go nuts with The Scarab God off someone else's stuff).

[PrimevalCommander]

Enchantment sac outlets in BUG?
Attrition, Erebos, Bleak-Hearted , Vampiric Rites

Better sac outlets: Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, Spawning Pit, I've been liking Disciple of Griselbrand as a fair sac outlet.

Token makers
Curse of the Restless Dead, Chalk Outline

[pokken]

Enchantment sac outlets in BUG?
Attrition, Erebos, Bleak-Hearted , Vampiric Rites

Better sac outlets: Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, Spawning Pit, I've been liking Disciple of Griselbrand as a fair sac outlet.

Token makers
Curse of the Restless Dead, Chalk Outline

huh curse is actually pretty cool, it works for me! Lol. Very efficient.

Chalk Outline doesn't work with my creature layout.

Disciple of Griselbrand is one I had not clocked, I like that. Much more fair.

I really like Vampiric Rites! Very fair, etc. I did consider Erebos, Bleak-Hearted but the 2 life loss is annoying. Still it does help control the board potentially. and is resilient.

Trying to stay away from Attrition - it's so strong in this shell but man I feel bad blowing up everyone's dudes all the time.

Good lookin' out man, thanks!

[pokken]

I'm not sure when I'll get around to updating the OP, but here's the power level powerdown cuts:

Cuts
1 constant mists
1 demonic tutor
1 phyrexian altar
1 the mending of dominaria
1 vampiric tutor
1 entomb
1 nether traitor
1 ancient greenwarden
1 undergrowth recon
1 finale of devastation

Adds
1 Tale's End
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 cryptolith rite
1 song of freyalise
1 garruk wildspeaker
1 liliana, dreadhorde general
1 curse of the restless dead
1 nylea's intervention
1 scute swarm
1 vampiric rites


Basically I got rid of any of the 2-piece infinite combos (e.g. nether traitor + phyrexian altar with Tormod), added a little bit of spot removal, cut back on tutors, added some win conditions, and added some fair card advantage.

Ancient Greenwarden was probably the hardest cut; it's a really good card, but it violates the ethos of the deck by being an expensive creature that I want to keep on the board. I might bring it back just because it goes off with Field of the Dead so badly, but I'm trying to not need too many creatures to do the thing.

Scute Swarm is a nice compact wincon that is basically immune to spot removal so goes more along with what I'm doing with the deck.

There's a very fun infinite combo with Ashnod's Altar and Scute Swarm and Training Grounds where I can essentially guarantee I'll flip my deck with Thrasios, Triton Hero activations, so I left that in because I enjoy it.

The Mending of Dominaria and Undergrowth Recon were fairly easy cuts; since I went down on creature count so much, Mending has been much worse, and Recon has been every bit as slow and clunky in practice as I imagined. I might try that one back at some point.

Garruk Wildspeaker and Song of Freyalise add some nice little win angles; pumping and vigilancing a board full of zombies is gross. Garruk has an extremely positive line with Thrasios, Triton Hero where you can cast him, untap 2 lands, and then cast Thrasios, Triton Hero to block for him which is nice.

Curse of the Restless Dead adds another win angle where we can make triumphant amounts of thrasios mana with zombies. decayed zombies can tap for mana without dying which is hilarious :

Liliana, Dreadhorde General makes some zombies, has an ultimate that wins the game if I gum up the board, and her static ability can draw an absolutely ridiculous amount of cards.

Vampiric Rites is a bad sac outlet that will likely get cut but who knows. the incidental lifegain and card draw can be pretty good with zombies who can tap for mana fueling it.

[pokken]

Cards I have on my want to get in the deck list

Pillage the Bog - new set card, really strong. plot and play it later with 10 lands out is similar to demonic tutor but a bit more fair, and has early game fixing applications
Simic Growth Chamber - I really want a karoo in this deck. Might just wind up cutting a forest sadly.
Echoing Deeps - I think this should be really solid bet for copying Field of the Dead in many circumstances and makes for nice Realms Uncharted package if I add that. Which i may.
Fetid Pools - more cycling I think would be nice
Tolaria West - land tutor for land seeems good
Dakmor Salvage - yeah
Petrified Field is a card I should probably have as a way to protect Field of the Dead from graveyard hate, another colorless land is annoying


I am giving some thought to a small package of Freestrider Lookout with a few more easy crimes like Maze of Ith (to go along with the stuff like Deserted Temple Thespian's Stage and Earthcraft that generate fairly easy harmless crimes. But I think that might be just another deck, might try it in my Zimone, Quandrix Prodigy deck that has so many ways to untap people's stuff :D It even kinda combos with Stone-Seeder Hierophant which is neat (each turn you get to untap something of an opponent's presumably that is currently already untapped during their upkeep, then get a land which untaps it, and then do that again each turn cycle :D).

--

Also reminding myself I want to find a spot for Evolutionary Leap in this deck; I have so few creatures and they are all stupid good, so fishing for them with a zombie is a really powerful thing to be doing.

[PrimevalCommander]

Cards I have on my want to get in the deck list

Echoing Deeps - I think this should be really solid bet for copying Field of the Dead in many circumstances and makes for nice Realms Uncharted package if I add that. Which i may.
Tolaria West - land tutor for land seeems good
Petrified Field is a card I should probably have as a way to protect Field of the Dead from graveyard hate, another colorless land is annoying

You might not need both Echoing Deeps and Petrified field, I'm not sure which one I like better, but I have played Petrified Field for many years as land protection, and while it worked back in Battlecruiser times, spending a land drop to bring the land back to hand, without some exploration effects, always felt so slow. I mainly used it to protect Diamond Valley, Phyrexian Tower, and Volrath's Stronghold in my Karador deck, but eventually just replaced it with other utility lands because it either didn't do much, or was too slow to get my important lands back without additional land drops.

I know this deck is built around Field of the Dead, so having redundant protection is always good, but generally I'm happier to see Regrowth than Petrified Field. Though when making Realms Uncharted piles it does make it easier to get what you want back. Let us know how you like these. I want to like field, but the only deck that really depends on specific lands is Titania, Protector of Argoth, and she doesn't need the land recursion help.

Tolaria West as a land tutor in a deck with Green just looks overcosted. Without 2-3 other nonland zero cost targets, I do not see the appeal. You wont tutor for this then tutor for the land, and when drawing it, it could be something more useful. I guess it depends on how hard it is to find Field in a timely manner, but in green I doubt it is very hard.

[pokken]

My goal with echoing deeps is more to get multiple fields :D this deck goes absolutely insane if you have 2+ copies of field.

I may wind up needing a wasteland or something though if I'm gonna aim to make deeps reliable :D

[duducrash]

Pillage the Bog - new set card, really strong. plot and play it later with 10 lands out is similar to demonic tutor but a bit more fair, and has early game fixing applications

Interessante. I read and was like "would I ever rather have this than a actual tutor? even Diabolic Intent" but I could play this super early and have a free tutor to pop whenever I want later. I still think an actual tutor would be better, but this does fit the vibe.

[pokken]

Pillage the Bog - new set card, really strong. plot and play it later with 10 lands out is similar to demonic tutor but a bit more fair, and has early game fixing applications

Interessante. I read and was like "would I ever rather have this than a actual tutor? even Diabolic Intent" but I could play this super early and have a free tutor to pop whenever I want later. I still think an actual tutor would be better, but this does fit the vibe.

Yeah it's way worse than demonic tutor but it is mana efficient and has some advantages. Like you can plot it when you aren't sure what you need then pop it later which I like.

A lot of times I am not sure what to dt for on curve

I think most of what I like about it is its worse in an interesting way?

[pokken]

Will likely jam Wight of the Reliquary despite it having some sequencing issues. Looks like some cool new stuff likely. Some of the escape cards could be good since they make a lot of zombies with Tormod.

[duducrash]

You could play every land out of your deck if you have Intruder Alarm , right?

[pokken]

You could play every land out of your deck if you have Intruder Alarm , right?

Yar. There are actually a lot of pretty dumb uses for intruder alarm in this deck. So I should probably not be doing that :D

It'd also make earthcraft and thrasios go infinite fairly easily .

[pokken]

I had an idea I wanted to note; I think this deck could be done with Skybind as the engine in a Bant shell. blinking Serra's Sanctum or Gaea's Cradle would let you go bananas with Thrasios, Triton Hero's ability making lands which trigger field. Kind of another way to hit that Lego Seedborn Muse effect. The problem with that is how to make enchantments to trigger Skybind, so that gets a little rube goldbergy.

You can do some pretty wild stuff ijn white with things like Living Plane and Eerie Interlude, Opalescence and Parallax Wave (generating infinite tokens with Dryad Arbor as well.

So might be an opportunity to combine a lot of my favorite bullcrap into Field. The problem is there's not a lot of zombie making in White, basically God-Eternal Oketra. Could always go with Felidar Retreat or Zendikar's Roil type stuff for landfall tokens I suppose.

And of course access to Knight of the Reliquary is dope.

Anyway, somethin to noodle on :D

[pokken]

Had an interesting game with this deck against decks I forgot; one of them was an The Ur-Dragon dragon tribal that friggin Balefire Dragon'd me which was very unpleasant, on the eve of me cutting Nylea's Intervention A Haktos the Unscarred deck finally won the day by killin us, and I couldn't quite get an answer to it. He had multiple ways to sweep my board leaving Haktos the Unscarred alive even beating my sick ass play of --

Crop Rotation for Mystic Sanctuary to retrieve a counterpell, then Waterlogged Grove to draw it and counter the first of the sweepers.

Previously I had kept myself in the game by Disallow'ing a Balefire Dragon trigger (the second I would have suffered)

The deck did a ton of its things; I had set up a fun engine of Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath with Insidious Roots and did some stupid Bloodghast / Life from the Loam tricks with Bazaar of Baghdad.

The deck is really fun and fundamentally does its thing, but I keep running into situations where I desperately want Glacial Chasm so I might wind up having to put that back in despite how unfun it is. The meta has really moved on speed wise so I don't seem to get the time to durdle and set up big old zombie armies.

I might also need to add a couple tutors back in; I've recently cut almost everything, but that game I could have really done with a Vampiric Tutor for Decree of Pain or something. And in general I may need to add *something* to deal with flying armies. Maybe get Entomb back in so my zombies can fly, I dunno.

I think I might try playing this deck as my primary deck for a while since I got the power level down a little, and see if I can identify exactly what it should be doing, but it's struggling - always feeling like it's maybe a turn or two from going over the top.