Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[Dunadain]

I just noticed Meddling Youths, lol

That's got to be an intentional nod to Scooby Doo, right? Too bad Meddling Kids had already been used.

[Dunadain]

Also, we will presumably be getting a card like Dining Room for each room in clue, but that's only 9 cards, so what unlucky guild gets left out?

[Cyberium]

Now there's a chance we might get a legend who is the ghost of...

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Teysa

[kirkusjones]

If you're going to print new dredge cards, print graveyard hate in the same set. Good dredge players know how to play around most graveyard hate, but if you stick something like Soul-Guide Lantern and/or Surgical Extraction into the same set/standard environment, it should be fine.

Sure, it makes for repetitive play patterns but so do plenty of other things we deal with on a regular basis. I'm 100% biased as a former LED and manaless dredge player though.

There's nothing like being excited to be on the draw in a legacy tournament when your deck has no lands.

I think they didn't like Dredge in the original Ravnica set, and then reanimator was too powerful of a standard deck for Return to Ravnica.

If you were playing aggro, the deck had Thragtusk to counter it. If you were running removal they could play Restoration Angel to blink the Thragtusk in response to removal. Control didn't really work because Abrupt Decay couldn't be countered and destroyed Detention Sphere, which isn't even that good against Thragtusk. The deck also had Angel of Serenity and Craterhoof Behemoth as a finisher and could name beast for Cavern of Souls for Hoof and Tusk. The deck had ramp with Avacyn's Pilgrim and Farseek, a reanimator spell that could be played from the graveyard in Unburial Rites, and it could fill the graveyard with Mulch and Grisly Salvage to fill the graveyard. And if you played graveyard hate in rest in peace or Deathrite Shaman they could just hardcast their creatures.

I'm not sure what a junk reanimator deck in RTR standard (with mostly offenders from Innistrad block) has to do with bringing back dredge. Abrupt Decay and Deathrite were allstars, sure, but scavenge, other than with Varolz, the Scar-Striped didn't make waves.

Is it just the Ravnica/Golgari association, or my comment about graveyard hate?

[NZB2323]

If you're going to print new dredge cards, print graveyard hate in the same set. Good dredge players know how to play around most graveyard hate, but if you stick something like Soul-Guide Lantern and/or Surgical Extraction into the same set/standard environment, it should be fine.

Sure, it makes for repetitive play patterns but so do plenty of other things we deal with on a regular basis. I'm 100% biased as a former LED and manaless dredge player though.

There's nothing like being excited to be on the draw in a legacy tournament when your deck has no lands.

I think they didn't like Dredge in the original Ravnica set, and then reanimator was too powerful of a standard deck for Return to Ravnica.

If you were playing aggro, the deck had Thragtusk to counter it. If you were running removal they could play Restoration Angel to blink the Thragtusk in response to removal. Control didn't really work because Abrupt Decay couldn't be countered and destroyed Detention Sphere, which isn't even that good against Thragtusk. The deck also had Angel of Serenity and Craterhoof Behemoth as a finisher and could name beast for Cavern of Souls for Hoof and Tusk. The deck had ramp with Avacyn's Pilgrim and Farseek, a reanimator spell that could be played from the graveyard in Unburial Rites, and it could fill the graveyard with Mulch and Grisly Salvage to fill the graveyard. And if you played graveyard hate in rest in peace or Deathrite Shaman they could just hardcast their creatures.

I'm not sure what a junk reanimator deck in RTR standard (with mostly offenders from Innistrad block) has to do with bringing back dredge. Abrupt Decay and Deathrite were allstars, sure, but scavenge, other than with Varolz, the Scar-Striped didn't make waves.

Is it just the Ravnica/Golgari association, or my comment about graveyard hate?

I just think they'd be afraid of it being too powerful, especially with Maro's comments about dredge on the storm scale.

[kirkusjones]

Stormscale schmormscale.

In all seriousness though, it's funny that dredge's cousin delve has a lower stormscale rating despite seeing more bannings overall across formats.

It's probably time to take this into the Thunderdome for further discussion and stop derailing this thread, if anyone wants to continue responding to my biased nonsense.

[5colorsrainbow]

I just noticed Meddling Youths, lol

That's got to be an intentional nod to Scooby Doo, right?

Yup, I'd also say its also meant to be the general trope of a kid/teen sleuths such as your Nancy Drews while being a clear nod to Scooby doo the most popular of that sub-genre of mystery stories.

[CommanderMaster999]

I just realized the hybrid cost thing

Could it potential be a reincarnation of the nephilim?

[yeti1069]

The flavor text is 100% Scooby Doo-related.

[Dunadain]

The flavor text is 100% Scooby Doo-related.

I just saw the flavor text for the alt artwork, yep.

[RxPhantom]

How are people vining with these dossier treatments?

[Dunadain]

How are people vining with these dossier treatments?

Thumbs down from me, but if it's your thing, go wild.

I don't care for most treatments though, i like all my cards to match.

[Mookie]

Now there's a chance we might get a legend who is the ghost of...

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Teysa

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They spoiled Teysa's card already - just name and creature type (no rules text), but we know her new card is still a human advisor. Ghosteysa does seem likely to appear whenever we next return to Ravnica though.

I'm not a big fan of the dossier treatments in a vacuum, but they make sense in the set. I could see myself running them if I had a clue deck.

[Hawk]

I've found very few treatments to be enjoyable (I do like the Eldraine "storybook" frames and really don't think anything else has come close) but the dossier ones are particularly jarring, and I dread the Wanted Poster or Playing Card treatments we're likely to get in Thunder Junction. But hey, if they bring you joy good for you and here's hoping I don't pull any highly desirable cards in that style for myself.

[Serenade]

I don't like Courier font.

[folding_music]

I love the frame variants more than the game at this point

[5colorsrainbow]

How are people vining with these dossier treatments?

I don't like them or the Dr Who ones since it makes it tricky to tell at a glance what color(s) the card is. I like the art style though and the flavor text is fun.

[CommanderMaster999]

Alright around 1 hour 10 we're gonna get this MKM train started

Hopes of cards and teasers to see?

….speak of the devil… mtg arena Twitter showed of Judith's card and you can do the same trick with Firesong and Sunspeaker with Blasphemous Act or Star of Extinction …. Gain 150+ life

[duducrash]

A bunch of cool cards, Lavinia, foil to Conspiracy is the opposite of what I expect a Lavinia to be

I wonder how @pokken is and he thinks about Tomik, wielder of the law for his Brenna.

The rare lands are like the scrylaands but for surveil and with the landtype. Really like it, will run in Karador, Ghost Chieftain fetchable and fills the yard? Count me in

Case of the ransaked lab set mechanics rarely are powerful enough but this card in specific seems fire.

Boros got some sweet toys, General Ferrous Rokiric casual deck will benefit greatly from some.

Im also hype for the new Tolsimir, midnight's light card as I have a Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves deck. With the other two versions altered to Sam and Ashitaoa from monoke. Wonder who this will be altered to

[Dunadain]

Typed Surveil lands are kind of wild. Honestly think people are kind of underselling them. You can run a singleton in your deck, and turn any fetch land into card selection.

I'm not saying they're the next shockland or anything, but I think they are closer to triomes than temples (though i think they definitely fall between those two cycles).

[Dunadain]

Bruh, they brought back morph EXCEPT they made it even MORE annoying to track…


…yay =/

[CommanderMaster999]

Crime Novelist: ….😳 Wizards!! That makes treasure tokens create any color and a r now (it's missing "once per turn") and the same color as Dockside Extortionist

Disguise mechanic in general: first of all this means Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer will hype spike for sure, secondly the naya deck is basically switching dimir colors boros colors, and third people will think I'm nuts but this means I might have to potentially use Kenrith, the Returned King as a place holder commander for my orginal kadena deck.

[NZB2323]

I like the surveil lands.

Warleader's Call seems good for aggro decks, might test it in Éowyn, Shieldmaiden. It's come a long way from Glorious Anthem. It's not a human and is higher on the mana curve, but I still like it.

Kaya, Spirit's Justice might be good in Tymna the Weaver//Ravos, Soultender cleric tribal. Surveil 2 is good with Ravos and creating an evasive creature is good with Tymna, and being able to exile a creature for each opponent seems good. 4 on mana curves well with the commanders, but is higher on the mana curve, and isn't a cleric.

Bite down on crime and airtight alibi seem good in Legolas, Counter of Kills. They're higher on the mana curve, but are worth testing.

If you guys are reading the story, there's still no explanation of why Niv-Mizzet isn't in it. This is the only explanation we get:

It would have been nice if Niv-Mizzet, who embodied the Guildpact, could have made an appearance while his people were dying.

[Hawk]

Typed Surveil lands are kind of wild. Honestly think people are kind of underselling them. You can run a singleton in your deck, and turn any fetch land into card selection.

I'm not saying they're the next shockland or anything, but I think they are closer to triomes than temples (though i think they definitely fall between those two cycles).

As a lifelong Temple enjoyer I think these lands are super hot and it's gonna be hard to not run them in every deck. Surveil really is pretty close to "draw half a card" for most decks and can be full "draw a card" for decks that really care for their 'yard like The Gitrog Monster. I think these are awesome and actually the kinda thing I need to see to play a tapped land in a deck. Very strong. I think they're going to be great here in Commander (assuming they aren't immediately $10-$20 because they're also great in Standard and other formats).

In other news, I wouldn't have called Daretti, Scrap Savant as my commander that would eat best for this set, but Crime Novelist and Demand Answers are incredible, and I may also be interested in Krenko, Baron of Tin Street and Galvanize.

[duducrash]

Typed Surveil lands are kind of wild. Honestly think people are kind of underselling them. You can run a singleton in your deck, and turn any fetch land into card selection.

I'm not saying they're the next shockland or anything, but I think they are closer to triomes than temples (though i think they definitely fall between those two cycles).

If the deck is heavy in 2 colors I think they might often be better than triomes.


Cycling on triomes is alright, its not quite flavor text but its close to be, surveil is always value