Erebos, God of the Dead: Danse Macabre

[TheGildedGoose]

Got bored and did some tweaks to the Primer, notably the opening hand section. It had been severely outdated for a long time, talking about cards that were no longer in the deck, and I was never happy with the way it was formatted. It looks much better now.

Also, with the addition of Takenuma, Abandoned Mire I have an additional way to recur my few creatures, which renders Necromancy an awkward inclusion. I'm not running enough reanimation spells or targets to justify it, so I think it's time for it to go. Animate Dead is fine a singular tutor target, but otherwise I think the slot can best be used for putting Prismatic Lens. 12 rocks and 37 lands yields a 56% chance to drop Erebos on turn 3 before mulligans, which feels great.

- Necromancy
+ Prismatic Lens

EDIT: I think it's time for Infernal Darkness to go. While not MLD, it's pretty close to a stax piece, and this is technically a casual deck. Seeing people scoop to it makes me sad, so I guess I'll try Polluted Bonds back in its place. I'm really of two minds about Bonds; on one hand, it's a 5mv enchantment that "does nothing" in that it doesn't affect the board, but on the other, it's a slow burn card that usually gains you a significant chunk of life over time, assuming you don't topdeck it on turn 13. The life gain does often translate into more Erebos activations and also makes opponents more susceptible to Torment/Exsanguinate.

- Infernal Darkness
+ Polluted Bonds

EDIT: On second thought, I should also dump Death Cloud for similar reasons, It's a brutally unfun card in an already potentially brutally unfun deck to play against, so it can go. I think I'll replace it with Vona's Hunger, as Cloud was primarily used as a removal spell that also just so happened to take a giant dump on everything else. Hunger is instant speed, and 10 permanents isn't at all uncommon with this deck between all the lands, rocks, and disruption permanents.

I briefly considered Bottomless Pit and Arterial Flow for this slot, instead, but I think the edict is a little more generally useful. Instead of Polluted Bonds, a card I perpetually come back to like a bad drug, I think I'll give Arterial Flow a shot. It's a low-cost, semi-spammable disruption spell that even if it just hits the blue player it's a big win. I want to be a little more proactive.

Damn shame about the conquistador crap.

- Death Cloud
- Polluted Bonds

+ Vona's Hunger
+ Arterial Flow

[TheGildedGoose]

Just a follow up for anyone reading along at home.

Arterial Flow is a fine card in theory, but in practice, it's just a bit too aggressive. This deck wants to be a stealthy boa constrictor, slowly wrapping around opponents until it's too late for them to do anything about it. Flow has to go.

- Arterial Flow

I'm tweaking the manabase just a little bit. Blast Zone is one of those cards that's great in on paper, but middling in practice. I have used it to save my bacon on one or two occasions, but most of the time it just sits there as a Wastes. Its removal aspect can be clutch but it's just so, so expensive, and I would rather sink my mana into Erebos to find an answer I need. Also, while it's not a mana producer, Glacial Chasm is a bit unnecessary. While it's true that some decks can't beat it, decks that rely on combat damage to win are so sorely disadvantaged towards my deck that it's kind of irrelevant. Sacrificing a land isn't great, and neither is the cumulative upkeep of life.

- Blast Zone
- Glacial Chasm

While we're continuing on the mana talk, Prismatic Lens is also out. It was between Lens and Star Compass, but I love the old bordered artifacts and being able to tap for black is marginally more useful.

- Prismatic Lens

There's no easy way to say this: Mind Twist got the axe. I know, it's an incredibly powerful card and I've sung its praises many times, but sometimes you're not playing against a blue control deck that you want to leave rudderless early on. Drawn early in those cases it's dead, as you don't want to risk someone turning someone into a permanent enemy, and there are better ways to strip hands.

- Mind Twist

While we're talking about discard, how about a shiny new add? I shied away from Bottomless Pit earlier because I didn't like how the random effect hindered my ability to set up, but now that I have Volrath's Stronghold to recur Gray Merchant of Asphodel I'm less concerned about losing all of my win conditions and given the redundancies of everything else it shouldn't be a problem. Hindering my opponents' abilities to set up, however, is a good deal.

+ Bottomless Pit

I had a very frustrating game against Meren of Clan Nel Toth earlier. I Bogged them, but it wasn't enough to stop them from recovering several times and eventually overwhelming me. I'm a little soft to graveyard strategies, so I'm shoring them up with Leyline of the Void. It's an easy include because of the double black pips.

+ Leyline of the Void

In lieu of Glacial Chasm I needed a bit more removal, but considering I'm already running the best available board wipes available to me as well as stax-lite anti-creature enchantments, I returned to spot removal to help deter attackers. The best 2mv removal spell I'm not running is good ol' Go for the Throat, so it's back in.

+ Go for the Throat

Lastly, I'm adding in more Swamps. That's all.

+ 2 Swamp

[EonAon]

How do you feel about Dread ?

[TheGildedGoose]

How do you feel about Dread ?

I haven't tested it, but I think it's a bit expensive for what it does and is too anti-synergistic with the volume of board wipes I run. No Mercy is effective because it's difficult for many decks to remove and dodges my wipes, but honestly, it's a card I'm becoming less fond of over time. It's functionally a life gain card in that it deters random attacks from creatures, which is very nice in a deck that can be cavalier with its life total, but I often wonder if I'd be better off running another wipe or more proactive anti-aggro card.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

How do you feel about Dread ?

I haven't tested it, but I think it's a bit expensive for what it does and is too anti-synergistic with the volume of board wipes I run. No Mercy is effective because it's difficult for many decks to remove and dodges my wipes, but honestly, it's a card I'm becoming less fond of over time. It's functionally a life gain card in that it deters random attacks from creatures, which is very nice in a deck that can be cavalier with its life total, but I often wonder if I'd be better off running another wipe or more proactive anti-aggro card.

I dunno man, I like Dread here. It's a big thing that can swing in for %15 of player's starting life total with near impunity because of the No Mercy clause, thereby lowering the mana threshold to your X spell finish. Furthermore, it effectively dodges your wraths with the reshuffle and makes you pseudo-immune to sorcery speed mill out. Plus, evasive 6/6 for six is never a bad rate, even today.

The only thing I can't sell is the triple pips. That is unfortunate.

[EonAon]

How do you feel about Dread ?

I haven't tested it, but I think it's a bit expensive for what it does and is too anti-synergistic with the volume of board wipes I run. No Mercy is effective because it's difficult for many decks to remove and dodges my wipes, but honestly, it's a card I'm becoming less fond of over time. It's functionally a life gain card in that it deters random attacks from creatures, which is very nice in a deck that can be cavalier with its life total, but I often wonder if I'd be better off running another wipe or more proactive anti-aggro card.

I dunno man, I like Dread here. It's a big thing that can swing in for %15 of player's starting life total with near impunity because of the No Mercy clause, thereby lowering the mana threshold to your X spell finish. Furthermore, it effectively dodges your wraths with the reshuffle and makes you pseudo-immune to sorcery speed mill out. Plus, evasive 6/6 for six is never a bad rate, even today.

The only thing I can't sell is the triple pips. That is unfortunate.

He is playing Grey merchant/nykthos and mono black, its not totally bad on that count.

[TheGildedGoose]

I dunno man, I like Dread here. It's a big thing that can swing in for %15 of player's starting life total with near impunity because of the No Mercy clause, thereby lowering the mana threshold to your X spell finish. Furthermore, it effectively dodges your wraths with the reshuffle and makes you pseudo-immune to sorcery speed mill out. Plus, evasive 6/6 for six is never a bad rate, even today.

Hmm. Maybe I'll give it a shot. I'll likely cut Bottomless Pit for it, since I think 9 discard spells is sufficient.

The only thing I can't sell is the triple pips. That is unfortunate.

He is playing Grey merchant/nykthos and mono black, its not totally bad on that count.

I'm inclined to believe it was a joke, given how important devotion is to this deck.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

So DMU and BRO (love that set acronym) have some pretty cool black cards in them! Any updates? New Sheoldred seems pretty potent.

What do you think of Hostile Negotiation? The instant speed dig six is nice, but opponents choice can be lame if you can't effectively mindgame the piles. Or is just superfluous with Erebos?

[TheGildedGoose]

So DMU and BRO (love that set acronym) have some pretty cool black cards in them! Any updates? New Sheoldred seems pretty potent.

What do you think of Hostile Negotiation? The instant speed dig six is nice, but opponents choice can be lame if you can't effectively mindgame the piles. Or is just superfluous with Erebos?

The most significant update is converting my mana rocks over to almost mono-brown when I can buy the singles from the BRO Commander decks.

Sheoldred, the Apocalypse is a multiformat all-star, but I have my reservations she'll be effective here. After all, my criteria for running a creature are very niche. Turning Erebos into pain-free draw is nice, and punishing the blue player for drawing too many cards is also nice, but nice doesn't make her a must-run. Ultimately, she doesn't further the deck's core strategy of disruption. In the earlier version that ran Ankh of Mishra she would've been in immediately, but in the current list I don't think she does enough to warrant inclusion. Which is a shame, because she's really elegantly designed.

Hostile Negotiation is definitely the one that caught my eye from BRO. If my deck had more graveyard synergy, I would absolutely test it, but as is I don't think I can really capitalize on digging that deeply. For the same mana value, Erebos provides the same raw card advantage, even if I don't see nearly that many cards.

Not much else to discuss. Gix's Command is a bit underpowered, and Defiler of Flesh is just K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth.

I did finally test The Meathook Massacre and, unsurprisingly, it's very strong. While there are times it misses because I don't have enough mana to pump into X to kill everything on board, it's usually enough to get rid of most/all of my actual problems. It's the life gain and devotion that really put it over the top, though, obviously; Black Sun's Zenith was always borderline playable, so it's no surprise that an almost strictly better version is more playable.

Honestly, I don't play this deck much anymore. As much as I love it, I know it can be a chore to play against.

[TheGildedGoose]

"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu

Well, it's time. I'm officially retiring this primer. It's been a long time coming since I stopped consistently updating the thread long ago, and I just wanted to make it known. It's unlikely I'll keep developing the deck at all. I feel like it's run its course. I haven't played it in a long, long time, and it rests in an awkward middle ground between serious EDH and competitive EDH that makes it unfun to play in either direction. I'll still live the mono-black life, just with decks less miserable to play against.

I want to thank @rogerandover for their early contributions, @TheAmericanSpirit for expressing interest in this deck long after everyone else stopped paying attention, and especially @lyonhaert for lots of feedback and extensive dialogue and theorycrafting behind the scenes.

RIP

[Dunadain]

F

[TheAmericanSpirit]

"I were better to be eaten to death with a rust than to be scoured to nothing with perpetual motion." - Henry IV

RIP

[rogerandover]

RIP

I know the feeling about a deck in that power level space - not fun, though the theorycrafting and deckbuilding still is.

[lyonhaert]

RIP

Indeed, all things find their end.

[TheGildedGoose]

Well, Beseech the Mirror got printed, and that card is silly.

We're back, baby.

This time, though, there's nothing off-limits. I decided to proxy up The Abyss and Nether Void because life is short, Pox is back, and there's a more dedicated mana denial package. Stax called, and I answered.

Danse Macabre

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander:

1 Erebos, God of the Dead

Lands: 40

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Bojuka Bog

1 Cabal Coffers

1 Demolition Field

1 Deserted Temple

1 Myriad Landscape

1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

1 Thespian's Stage

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Volrath's Stronghold

30 Swamp

Ramp: 12

1 Everflowing Chalice

1 Bubbling Muck

1 Sol Ring

1 Arcane Signet

1 Charcoal Diamond

1 Coldsteel Heart

1 Fellwar Stone

1 Jet Medallion

1 Liquimetal Torque

1 Mind Stone

1 Thought Vessel

1 Crypt Ghast

Discard: 7

1 Thoughtseize

1 Liliana of the Veil

1 Oppression

1 Words of Waste

1 Court of Ambition

1 Painful Quandary

1 Myojin of Night's Reach

Mana Denial: 6

1 Sphere of Resistance

1 Mana Web

1 Tangle Wire

1 Infernal Darkness

1 Nether Void

1 Smokestack

Board Control: 7

1 Maze of Ith

1 Pox

1 No Mercy

1 Pestilence

1 Tainted Aether

1 The Abyss

1 Spreading Plague

Spot Removal: 8

1 Erebos's Intervention

1 Feed the Swarm

1 Go for the Throat

1 Heartless Act

1 Infernal Grasp

1 Oubliette

1 Baleful Mastery

1 Deadly Rollick

Board Wipes: 7

1 The Meathook Massacre

1 Oblivion Stone

1 Toxic Deluge

1 Damnation

1 Mutilate

1 All Is Dust

1 Decree of Pain

Tutors/Draw: 7

1 Imperial Seal

1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Demonic Tutor

1 Grim Tutor

1 Necropotence

1 Beseech the Mirror

1 Dark Petition

Recursion: 2

1 Crucible of Worlds

1 Yawgmoth's Will

Drain: 3

1 Exsanguinate

1 Torment of Hailfire

1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel

Approximate Total Cost:

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Is Cabal Stronghold not good enough? If the game goes long, it goes positive after 5 swamps and it makes colorless in the mean time.

[TheGildedGoose]

Is Cabal Stronghold not good enough? If the game goes long, it goes positive after 5 swamps and it makes colorless in the mean time.

I go back and forth with it. It's not bad, but I very rarely activate it and when I do, it's not gamebreaking. It's still an accelerant on a land, though.

Where do we stand on Winter Orb? I feel like with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth/Cabal Coffers and a single mana rock we're blowing past parity and into disgusting territory.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

@TheGildedGoose Orb seems good enough. I also think Infernal Darkness and/or some kind of Contamination lock might be good too.

EDIT: AYE @3drinks! We got a fellow over here brewing a stax control deck with mana denial strats! This is kinda your thing, right?

[TheGildedGoose]

Just had a test game with Smokestack sacrificing Necropotence after drawing 13. I should've done this years ago.

[MrBloo]

@TheGildedGoose I am so glad this deck is seeing a revival! My pride and joy deck is Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief monoblack big mana control. She was my first ever commander and it's been the same archetype since then, just multiple versions over the years. I now use this primer as almost a bible on what I do and do not need in the deck and it's done much better. I actually am in the process of possibly switching her to Erebos since being able to shift the draw slots over to other cards as well as more aggressively run board control effects are exactly what the deck needs to do well.

I assume that you don't want to run Dauthi Voidwalker despite it being a very powerful effect because it conflicts with the board control effects so it won't be able to stick around for long enough? Is Crucible of Worlds to take advantage of the symmetrical discard effects and smokestack effects?

[TheGildedGoose]

@TheGildedGoose I am so glad this deck is seeing a revival!

Please, don't encourage me.

I assume that you don't want to run Dauthi Voidwalker despite it being a very powerful effect because it conflicts with the board control effects so it won't be able to stick around for long enough? Is Crucible of Worlds to take advantage of the symmetrical discard effects and smokestack effects?

Leyline of the Void finds its way in and out of the list, which I think is marginally better than the Voidwalker here because of the reasons you mention. Crucible is mostly there for that, but I would probably play the fetches here to make it even better.

[MrBloo]

I'm giving the pre-mana denial version a spin. If you were to run fetches (that's 4 OG fetches plus prismatic vista since I don't really want to count Fabled Passage), would you replace the basic swamps with them? On one hand I feel we don't want to lose the nonbasics we already have there but on the other hand going too low on actual swamp count makes me just as uncomfortable but I guess they are pretty much swamps anyway.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I'm giving the pre-mana denial version a spin. If you were to run fetches (that's 4 OG fetches plus prismatic vista since I don't really want to count Fabled Passage), would you replace the basic swamps with them? On one hand I feel we don't want to lose the nonbasics we already have there but on the other hand going too low on actual swamp count makes me just as uncomfortable but I guess they are pretty much swamps anyway.

I think the fetches here are kind of marginal imho. When I built the deck (a looong time ago and on a stricter budget) Goose was talking about using them with Rings of Brighthearth but ultimately cut them and the rings for being too medium for the slots.

I think there's a argument that they could be good alongside Sensei's Divining Top though.

[MrBloo]

I'm medium on rings in my version as well. Having to assemble a couple coffers effects already is going to require either luck or tutors, plus you'll still need to find your outlet drain spells to finish the game in addition to using tutors for whatever answers you need as a control deck, it basically means you usually have no the extra time or extra tutor to grab the rings to try to go infinite anyway. Besides, we don't really need an infinite when anything from 22-37 mana would kill the table just fine. There just also aren't many other activations in the deck you're too keen on copying, as both you and Goose had mentioned previously. It's feeling more like a win-more card when you can be using the slot for something spicier.

[TheGildedGoose]

I'm giving the pre-mana denial version a spin. If you were to run fetches (that's 4 OG fetches plus prismatic vista since I don't really want to count Fabled Passage), would you replace the basic swamps with them? On one hand I feel we don't want to lose the nonbasics we already have there but on the other hand going too low on actual swamp count makes me just as uncomfortable but I guess they are pretty much swamps anyway.

Fabled Passage is fine. It's only a problem on turns 2 and 3, but that implies you didn't play it on turn 1 and thus had to draw into it, which then implies that you kept a 1-2 land hand. Big mistake.

Cutting the Swamps is the right call since they're de facto Swamps anyway.

I think the fetches here are kind of marginal imho. When I built the deck (a looong time ago and on a stricter budget) Goose was talking about using them with Rings of Brighthearth but ultimately cut them and the rings for being too medium for the slots.

I think there's a argument that they could be good alongside Sensei's Divining Top though.

I agree they're marginal, but if you're playing Crucible of Worlds, why not? Speaking of marginal, Crucible also protects Cabal Coffers, which is an interaction that wins games.

I'm medium on rings in my version as well. Having to assemble a couple coffers effects already is going to require either luck or tutors, plus you'll still need to find your outlet drain spells to finish the game in addition to using tutors for whatever answers you need as a control deck, it basically means you usually have no the extra time or extra tutor to grab the rings to try to go infinite anyway. Besides, we don't really need an infinite when anything from 22-37 mana would kill the table just fine. There just also aren't many other activations in the deck you're too keen on copying, as both you and Goose had mentioned previously. It's feeling more like a win-more card when you can be using the slot for something spicier.

Notably, I've also cut a few planeswalkers from my current version, so Rings gets even worse. Ultimately it's too "do nothing" in an already passive deck.

EDIT: Descent into Madness is in over Winter Orb. While we can break parity with Cabal Coffers, if we don't have it, we don't have sufficient artifact mana to really pull ahead.