Ephara Retool Discussion

[pokken]

So I've been pretty worn out on my current build of Ephara for a while and am thinking about a ground up rebuild. I've got a few ideas, but the my current line of thinking is to try to do some completely different stuff to what I've been doing.

The biggest problem with the current iteration of the deck is that all the changes left me with basically zero board presence; the creatures are all *awful* and can't block profitably or do anything. Decklist for reference:

https://deckbox.org/sets/665530

I can think of a number of potential ways to go:

1. Instant speed token generation with instants/sorceries/lands // spellslingery

• Field of the dead
• cemetery protector
• poppet stitcher
• monastery mentor
• naru meha, wiza

Has the benefit of some nice combos (naru + Sublime Epiphany type stuff) and more board presence, and potentially getting more triggers.

Has some strong synergy with various Archaeomancer shenanigans too (e.g. Ephemerate)

2. +1/+1 counter stuff

There're a lot of ways to make warm bodies with counters, but also to go infinite with persist/sac outlet stuff. I know sac outlet combos were very successful before with Reveillark.

There're a lot of really neat cards that muck about with counters, like:

• archangel of thune
• basri's lieutenant
• walking ballista
• heliod, sun-crowned
• serra redeemer

3. Palinchron combos

There're a ton of palinchron combos and I've tested it in the deck and found it to be pretty solid in the past. Lots of synergy. Not sure if this helps the board presence issue or not.

4. Beef with finishers
It feels like I might be able to find enough beef these days to start winning with combat damage, especially with stuff like Cyclonic Rift and Winds of Abandon.

• God-eternak oketra
• battle angels of tyr
• akroma's will
• serra emissary

5. Full on Hatebears
Cut allllll the stupid ETB bullcrap and move to a full on Hushbringer / Eidolon of Rhetoric strategy. There're a lot of really strong new hatebears, and if I could get critical mass I could probably close the game with stuff like Serra's Emissary and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.

The problem with this is figuring out how to get the triggers in other people's turns. It's probably stuff like Faerie Artisans and Saltskitter, and some small number of flash hatebears.

The major issue with this is I think I almost have to still play Recruiter of the Guard, and the deck basically survives on Spellseeker today.

6. Artifacts

I think there's a really solid Hangarback Walker / Unwinding Clock type deck.

--

As I'm reflecting on it a bit, now, I think the major issue in this deck might be Spellseeker and Recruiter of the Guard centralizing the gameplay so much that almost everything else seems pointless.

Anyone have any other thoughts?

[TheGildedGoose]

Have you considered adding more mana rocks?

[pokken]

Have you considered adding more mana rocks?

So I've played the deck a lot with as many as 10 or so. I had a build with hullbreaker/tide spout and the full busted rock package. It was kinda medium.

The issue was mostly that the way I have always tended to win games is with sweepers that conflict with rocks. I kept finding I was forced to hour my rocks

The other issue with the rocks is they cut into the card count such that it's tough to keep critical mass of creatures and interaction.

It's possible there is a build there with heavier rocks, mages, but fundamentally you only win with rocks with creatures you can't tutor for. It was always hard to find combo creature.

It's possible that now with Displacer Kitten there is a deck there because we can tutor for that piece and I'd be willing to entertain that. I just don't know what actually closing the game out looks like with rocks/kitten.

A big struggle with ephara is that most rock based combos make infinite mana and then you need a fourth or fifth piece which is awkward.

And if you're not using rocks to combo they aren't doing enough.

Just playing signets mox and vault for goodstuff used up too many slots and left you with lots of flame outs.

So I'm willing to think about it I just don't see what the path to victory is.

Maybe cut swap to like terminus/vanquish instead of hour?

One potential victory route could be Stenn / trinket mage shenanigans to find top combo - reality chip top Stenn is a nice compact combo.

With a backup of some kind of kitten combo that could work.

The problem is I'm not sure it's really ephara at that point?

[Treamayne]

6. Artifacts

I think there's a really solid Hangarback Walker/Unwinding Clock type deck.

Instead of Hangarback Walker-type artifact deck, what about a Master Transmuter/Crystal Shard type artifact (maybe with Mirrorworks) deck? Resilience is in using the self-bounce to protect key components from removal/sweepers. You can supplement with the tons of "create artifact token" tools that have been coming out. Since Ephara only needs ETB (not cast) the polymorph-style effect of Transmuter lets you build larger threats out of smaller utility over time and still trigger (maybe with Sword of the Paruns style untap assistance in-addition or instead of Unwinding Clock). My Sydri has gotten good mileage out of swapping things like Seat of the Synod for threats on turns when I don't have another land, then just replay the ArtiLand:

e.g. When mana is flush: tap Seat, swap for <threat>, Mirrorworks copy <threat>, replay Seat, Mirrorworks copy Seat. . . essentially 3 mana for Threat, Copy of Threat and copy of Artiland (since you end the process with two untapped Artilands)

[pokken]

Instead of Hangarback Walker-type artifact deck, what about a Master Transmuter/Crystal Shard type artifact (maybe with Mirrorworks) deck? Resilience is in using the self-bounce to protect key components from removal/sweepers. You can supplement with the tons of "create artifact token" tools that have been coming out. Since Ephara only needs ETB (not cast) the polymorph-style effect of Transmuter lets you build larger threats out of smaller utility over time and still trigger (maybe with Sword of the Paruns style untap assistance in-addition or instead of Unwinding Clock). My Sydri has gotten good mileage out of swapping things like Seat of the Synod for threats on turns when I don't have another land, then just replay the ArtiLand:

e.g. When mana is flush: tap Seat, swap for <threat>, Mirrorworks copy <threat>, replay Seat, Mirrorworks copy Seat. . . essentially 3 mana for Threat, Copy of Threat and copy of Artiland (since you end the process with two untapped Artilands)

My biggest struggle with artifacts is "Is this just a bad <insert any of the dozens of options> deck?" If I'm specifically making tokens maybe, but I wonder about that too--feels like there are a ton of artifact creature focused commanders. That said, Ephara's robot city seems like a pretty cool commentary on society

I'll do some noodling on it though as I think there are a lot of things like Whirlermaker and Retrofitter Foundry that could make it really hum.

[darrenhabib]

Have you thought about Purphoros, God of the Forge? My point being that it sounds like you have exhausted the playability out of this commander and really should just be looking at something new.

I posted a token generating Ephara, God of the Polis list in your thread a while back. But it's all same sides of the coin, you'll find very similar patterns to play, control elements while maintaining card advantage.
I've also been rocking an Imoen, Mystic Trickster + Folk Hero Human, Wizard, Rogue tribal deck which plays very similar to Ephara, albeit with restrictions which I tend to need these days in order for me to get variety out of deck building. Having the initiative and dungeons elements gives me more things to focus on as well.

If you want a really out-of-the-box idea then I been looking at making a deck around "opponent controls more lands than you" and using cards like Scorched Ruins, Lotus Vale, Lotus Field and bounce lands to maintain the criteria.
You could play into a Field of the Dead strategy, with Emeria Angel, Felidar Retreat, Retreat to Emeria being other enabler for Ephara.
You can use Archaeomancer's Map and Walking Atlas to keep putting an Azorius Chancery, Ghost Town, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Thawing Glaciers, Undiscovered Paradise, Guildless Commons to get consistent value.
Meloku the Clouded Mirror, Oboro Breezecaller, Soratami Cloudskater, Tameshi, Reality Architect, Trade Routes being other ways to return lands to hand for value.
Keeper of the Accord is only Plains, but if you have a sacrifice land/return to hand outlet, this can be constant for Ephara.
Retreat to Coralhelm means that Walking Atlas and Scholar of New Horizons are better.
The advantages of these engines is that they don't require spending mana on them once they are setup, in fact they can give you mana.

[pokken]

Have you thought about Purphoros, God of the Forge? My point being that it sounds like you have exhausted the playability out of this commander and really should just be looking at something new.

I posted a token generating Ephara, God of the Polis list in your thread a while back. But it's all same sides of the coin, you'll find very similar patterns to play, control elements while maintaining card advantage.
I've also been rocking an Imoen, Mystic Trickster + Folk Hero Human, Wizard, Rogue tribal deck which plays very similar to Ephara, albeit with restrictions which I tend to need these days in order for me to get variety out of deck building. Having the initiative and dungeons elements gives me more things to focus on as well.

If you want a really out-of-the-box idea then I been looking at making a deck around "opponent controls more lands than you" and using cards like Scorched Ruins, Lotus Vale, Lotus Field and bounce lands to maintain the criteria.
You could play into a Field of the Dead strategy, with Emeria Angel, Felidar Retreat, Retreat to Emeria being other enabler for Ephara.
You can use Archaeomancer's Map and Walking Atlas to keep putting an Azorius Chancery, Ghost Town, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Thawing Glaciers, Undiscovered Paradise, Guildless Commons to get consistent value.
Meloku the Clouded Mirror, Oboro Breezecaller, Soratami Cloudskater, Tameshi, Reality Architect, Trade Routes being other ways to return lands to hand for value.
Keeper of the Accord is only Plains, but if you have a sacrifice land/return to hand outlet, this can be constant for Ephara.
Retreat to Coralhelm means that Walking Atlas and Scholar of New Horizons are better.
The advantages of these engines is that they don't require spending mana on them once they are setup, in fact they can give you mana.

So all things considered I am super happy with Ephara, I just think I drifted away from one of the things I liked a lot which is that it had great board presence for an Azorius deck. Kinda want to steer that direction.

I am already running a light Field of the Dead package, and it's been good enough people will spend their limited land removal on it for some reason, but I didn't think there was quite enough support for it.

The free token generation off stuff like Emeria Angel and the retreats--free token generation like Thraben Doomsayer and very cheap like Nadir Kraken have proven to be exceptional already.

That's a really good thought. Meloku is super good too.

I think that's my favorite newish idea I've heard. Thanks!

(ohhh, there's a combo angle with Mystic Sanctuary too, bouncing lands and taking turns:P)

[darrenhabib]

I am already running a light Field of the Dead package, and it's been good enough people will spend their limited land removal on it for some reason, but I didn't think there was quite enough support for it.

You can protect it better with return to hand type cards against removal.
If you get the Walking Atlas then you use Guildless Commons or Azorius Chancery and play them in response to removal to return Field of the Dead instead.
Scaretiller is another Walking Atlas but requires more work. but some simple ways are Holdout Settlement, Survivors' Encampment.

Also using Urza's Saga is nice to return to hand for a creature token every turn. Kjeldoran Outpost as well, the sacrificing to replay is actually a benefit when combining with "opponent controls more lands than you".
You can use Glacial Chasm as a way to keep replaying to keep under the land threshold and this comes with the benefit that you reset the cumulative upkeep as well.

I see this is like a heavy lands themed deck, so ways to tutor for key ones and key cards are important.
With Archaeomancer's Map (and Walking Atlas/Scaretiller) being probably the best cards in this strategy so having access to Academy Ruins in the face of removal is good.
Tolaria West and Expedition Map for additional land tutors.
Another neat advantage of an "opponent controls more lands than you" build is that Weathered Wayfarer is always a search for land each turn.
Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire and Otawara, Soaring City become instant speed removal and become better with return to hand cards as you can play them and return them at some other stage.

Vesuva and Thespian's Stage good for copying Field of the Dead.
Thespian's Stage can copy a Scorched Ruins, Lotus Vale, Lotus Field for additional mana, while Vesuva still triggers the sacrifice so keeps land count down.
Deserted Temple makes the Scorched Ruins, etc better.

Yes with return land to hand cards you can trigger Mystic Sanctuary multiple times. Infinite is a bit boring so you can just look to loop control cards to keep the game going longer. How about Hour of Reckoning each turn.
Ruin Ghost plays a similar role to return lands, in that you can trigger Field of the Dead or doing other antics like Mystic Sanctuary.

I suspect Amulet of Vigor and Tiller Engine will be good if looking to get mana off Azorius Chancery, Thawing Glaciers, Guildless Commons loops.

[pokken]

With Archaeomancer's Map (and Walking Atlas/Scaretiller) being probably the best cards in this strategy so having access to Academy Ruins in the face of removal is good.

Scaretiller man that's my jam yeah when I started thinking about this I thought scaretiller.

I think this is definitely a deck, just not sure if it's better/more fun than Monastery Mentor.dec which is also high on my list. That deck has a lot more mana problems though, and becomes a Phyrexian Altar deck pretty fast to fix that.

Certainly it's more unique I think. And man do I love Amulet of Vigor.

It's really a bummer there are not more Walking Atlas effects.

[darrenhabib]

I think this is definitely a deck, just not sure if it's better/more fun than Monastery Mentor.dec which is also high on my list. That deck has a lot more mana problems though, and becomes a Phyrexian Altar deck pretty fast to fix that.

I've got a The Archimandrite deck drawn up with Monastery Mentor being a key(ish) card. I guess if you focus around a card and there is a NEW commander that leans into it then personally I'm always into trying something new.

Umm, I guess Monastery Mentor with a Archaeomancer's Map + return land type effect means that you use Mystic Sanctuary to always have an instant you can cast. Because the Monk token will allow you to draw the card, you can keep recasting it.
You can even use with Daze, Tidal Bore, Gush, Ensnare to return the Mystic Sanctuary.
Actually Tidal Bore + Walking Atlas + Mystic Sanctuary is a combo with a token generator (Monastery Mentor, Field of the Dead, etc) and no cost mana, in fact you gain a mana each players turn.

[cheonice]

Retreat to Coralhelm means that Walking Atlas and Scholar of New Horizons are better.

+1 for the Retreat.
There once was a Modern Combo deck featuring Knight of the Reliquary. Works great with Ruin Ghost, too!

[ISBPathfinder]

I think that you could consider increasing your flicker effects but you would also need to increase some of your bigger effect ETB creatures. I could see things like Torrential Gearhulk, Angel of the Ruins, Voracious Greatshark being decent.

I also like those creatures because the instant speed clones also pair well on them making a board full of fat creatures as well as getting sweet ETB effects and drawing cards from your commander.

[pokken]

I think that you could consider increasing your flicker effects but you would also need to increase some of your bigger effect ETB creatures. I could see things like Torrential Gearhulk, Angel of the Ruins, Voracious Greatshark being decent.

I also like those creatures because the instant speed clones also pair well on them making a board full of fat creatures as well as getting sweet ETB effects and drawing cards from your commander.

I think the build I am leaning toward is flicker effects looping w archaeomancer. I had very good experience with ghostly flicker palinchron at one point but I didn't go all in on it to fix all my intuition packages.

The introduction of Stenn to add critical mass to cost reducers I think makes it over the top.

Torrential gearhulk is fire for sure. Also maybe some Naru Meha maybe

[onering]

I have an Ephara deck that is almost entirely creatures. A sizeable number have flash or some other means of making creatures enter the battlefield on opponents turns to generate more draw from Ephara, but a lot are just efficient or fill control slots. It plays as an all in aggro deck, you just keep dropping threats and turning them sideways without fear of sweepers because Ephara keeps refilling your hand.

It's definitely less powerful that it would be with the right suite of non creature spells and the creatures that support them, but it's a blast to bring WU to the table and then just go all in on flooding the board with creatures and turning them sideways.